The Gospel

[lostnick3]

Your meaning was as we grow up...what? You started a sentence here, and then you didn't finish it. Your clause is dangling. Can you finish your sentence? Otherwise it looks like you're saying that you need god to be moral because teen angst allows you to ponder the mysteries of the universe.

Which makes about as much sense as "fish need to swim, because tacos are crunchy." Even a Zen master might get a little stumped on that one.

I sure hope that all that dangling doesn't give me a clauseache and thought the punch line was "like a fish needs a bicycle". ann i think it was a aol pop-up that caused me to type into the wall this time.

yes i completely miscommunicated. my point is that there is a point in time in our early lives when we are able to understand and discuss topic's like the ones in thus thread. thats all I was trying to be funny with the teen angst.

 

[lostnick3]

does any one have a email address to forward fishing scams to

 

[Nex]

does any one have a email address to forward fishing scams to

It depends on who the email sender claims to be. For example, eBay has [email protected], and PayPal has [email protected], and many other institutions and businesses may have email addresses specifically to forward phishing emails to. Though you could just send it to the help email address listed on the legitimate company's website.

 

[lostnick3]

nex

i had dealings with paypal about a year ago for some change while I was joining a gps club. I could not get the directions right, go figger and had no contact since. but...my wife fixed it for me and uses it. i did get instant notification it was legit. thanks again. thought i had one there.

 

[delphi_ote]

does any one have a email address to forward fishing scams to

Generally, it's in bad form to drop something like this in the middle of a thread. There's another section of the forum for such questions. Don't be afraid to start up a new thread about it over there. You'll probably get better answers and you won't derail the thread.

That said, try here and here. Hope that helps!

P.S. There's a great thread about Nigerian scams here. I highly recommend Tobias' post.

 

[kmortis]

Oh, hell, just watch a music video.

RT,
Wanna play kick the can?

 

[kurious_kathy]

Generally, it's in bad form to drop something like this in the middle of a thread.

That's ironic isn't it? This thread has been derailed from the OP so many times now, I can't even count how many times.
What was the OP again?.... Oh yes, "Why is the Gospel an offense?"

 

[Genesius]

That's ironic isn't it? This thread has been derailed from the OP so many times now, I can't even count how many times.
What was the OP again?.... Oh yes, "Why is the Gospel an offense?"

Well, when you disappear for days at a time and don't answer questions people ask you, these things happen. . .

 

[Genesius]

Since you never responded to my last post, I'll repeat it here. You love telling about how accepting Jesus made your life better, what's your reponse to those who say abandoning their faith made their life better?

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy :

Hi RF, and you can count on it! If God said it we can believe it. I don't understand why after your service as a missionary you turned away from the faith?
I would just like to encourage you to give God your heart. The days truely are evil and Jesus is coming back just like He said He would!

Romans 3:23-24.....
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

(I'm most likely wasting my breath here, but. . .)

Kathy, have you ever heard of Dan Barker? He's a former evangelist turned atheist, and the author of "Losing Faith in Faith", Here's a passage from his work explaining how he became an atheist, you can read the whole thing at http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=lostfaith

I did not lose my faith, I gave it up purposely. The motivation that drove me into the ministry is the same that drove me out. I have always wanted to know. Even as a child I fervently pursued truth. I was rarely content to accept things without examination, and my examinations were intense. I was a thirsty learner, a good student, and a good minister because of that drive. I always took things apart and put them back together again.

Since I was taught and believed Christianity was the answer, the only hope for "man," I dedicated myself to understanding all I possibly could. I devoured every book, every sermon, and the bible. I prayed, fasted and obeyed biblical teaching. I decided that I would lean my whole weight upon the truth of scripture. This attitude, I am sure, gave the impression that I was a notch above, that I could be trusted as a Christian authority and leader. Christians, eager for substantiation, gladly allowed me to assume a place of leadership and I took it as confirmation of my holy calling.

But my mind did not go to sleep. In my thirst for knowledge I did not limit myself to Christian authors but curiously desired to understand the reasoning behind nonChristian thinking. I figured the only way to truly grasp a subject was to look at it from all sides. If I had limited myself to Christian books I would probably still be a Christian today. I read philosophy, theology, science and psychology. I studied evolution and natural history. I read Bertrand Russell, Thomas Paine, Ayn Rand, John Dewey and others. At first I laughed at these worldly thinkers, but I eventually started discovering some disturbing facts--facts that discredited Christianity. I tried to ignore these facts because they did not integrate with my religious world view.

For years I went through an intense inner conflict. On the one hand I was happy with the direction and fulfillment of my Christian life; on the other hand I had intellectual doubts. Faith and reason began a war within me. And it kept escalating. I would cry out to God for answers, and none would come. Like the battered wife who clings to hope, I kept trusting that God would someday come through. He never did.

The only proposed answer was faith, and I gradually grew to dislike the smell of that word. I finally realized that faith is a cop-out, a defeat--an admission that the truths of religion are unknowable through evidence and reason. It is only undemonstrable assertions that require the suspension of reason, and weak ideas that require faith. I just lost faith in faith. Biblical contradictions became more and more discrepant, apologist arguments more and more absurd and, when I finally discarded faith, things became more and more clear.

From the accounts I've read on the forum, most former believers' stories are similar. The difference between you and them is you've turned off your mind and just accept everything the church offers you blindly. And until you start thinking for yourself you really have nothing to offer anyone here.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Well, when you disappear for days at a time and don't answer questions people ask you, these things happen. . .

You are right, I'm sorry I often do get busy and have a difficult time getting the time to get back to pertinent questions. I've been training to do some volunteer work in my community so a couple days of the week have been taken up even more. But it does feel good to try to get out there and help.

Anyways, I recently read a book by R.C. Sproul that defined these two outlooks that helps me look at the doctrines in question.

In this book by R.C. Sproul “Justified By Faith Alone" he ends the book with these two summaries.

The Roman Catholics View

1. Baptism (w/penance) is the instrumental cause of justification.
2. Justification is by infusion.
3. Justification is analytical.
4. Justification is based on an inherent righteousness.
5. Justification is by faith plus works.
6. Justification is by grace and merit.
7. Justification is on the basis of Christ’s righteousness and my righteousness.
8. Justification can be undone by mortal sin.
9. Justification may be complete in purgatory.
10. Justification may be obtained by drawing from Treasury of Merit.
11. Justification is sacerdotal.


The Reformation View

1. Faith is the instrumental cause of justification.
2. Justification is by imputation.
3. Justification is synthetic.
4. Justification is based on an alien (Christ’s) righteousness.
5. Justification is by faith alone.
6. Justification is by grace alone.
7. Justification is on the basis of Christ’s righteousness alone.
8. There is no “mortal sin” for a person who is justified.
9. There is no purgatory or need for it.
10. The only merit is that of Christ alone.
11. Justification is non-sacerdotal.


The difference between the two “ gospels” is in grave danger of being lost in our day. Efforts to heal the breach between Rome and the Reformation have yielded confusion among many. The issue cannot be resolved by studied ambiguities or different meanings attached to the same words. The crucial issue of infusion verses imputation remains the irreconcilable issue. We are either justified by a righteousness that is in us or by a righteousness that is apart from us. There is no third way.

I myself take the view of the reformed church.

 

[Genesius]

8. There is no “mortal sin” for a person who is justified.

Just to make sure I understand: You can commit any crime, no matter how horrible, and you will be forgiven as long as you accept Jesus as your savior. But a person who doesn't accept Jesus is condemned to Hell, no matter how good a life they led. Is this correct?

 

[kurious_kathy]

Just to make sure I understand: You can commit any crime, no matter how horrible, and you will be forgiven as long as you accept Jesus as your savior. But a person who doesn't accept Jesus is condemned to Hell, no matter how good a life they led. Is this correct?

There are things in my past I still find hard to believe Jesus can forgive me for, but yes I do grab hold of that promise. The thing is whether we are truely repentive and wanting to turn away from a life of sin.

There is lots of controversy within the faith about whether or not if people are once saved, are they always saved? You may be interested in reading this article I just came across yesterday in reguards to this subject.
I'll have to find the link and come back ...
http://www.desertcrymagazine.com/OnceSavedAlwaysSaved.html

 

[Genesius]

So a person can be a raping, murdering, child molesting drug pusher, but if they have a sincere conversion right before the authorities administer the lethal injection all their sins are forgiven.

(Please note I said a sincere conversion, not a panicky "Jesus, get me outta this!")

But if someone lives a good life - taking care of stray kitties, helping little old ladies across the street, volunteering at homeless shelters - but doesn't accept Jesus it was all for nothing, they're gonna burn.

Is that right?

 

[kurious_kathy]

It's true that scripture does teach everything outside of Christ leads to death. So if I were you,I would just like to make this suggestion... it is better to believe than not to believe.
There have been many people from all different walks in life that have come to faith in Christ. Some people that you would never even think it could be possible they are saved. Let God be the judge!
I believe God knows which ones have love and are capable of truely repenting or having a heart for God. I myself want to learn to love what God loves and stay away from what God hates which is sin. Love the sinner, but not the sin. Even good people sin, do they not?

 

[slingblade]

One day, I'll write my life-story-so-far, and Kathy can have a real good cry over how horrible it was, and then continue to wonder why I no longer believe God (any god, but especially ol' Yahweh) exists.

She can then explain to me why, if God really exists, when I "asked for bread," He "gave me a snake."

 

[Freethinker]

So if I were you,I would just like to make this suggestion... it is better to believe than not to believe.

I just have a question. Do we have to take babies and smash them on rocks to be happy the way Psalm 137 suggests?

 

[BlackCat]

It's true that scripture does teach everything outside of Christ leads to death. So if I were you,I would just like to make this suggestion... it is better to believe than not to believe.

I doubt I'll get a response, but here goes. What about the great person that Genesius mentioned, who did great works, but wasn't a christian? What if that person never had anyone around them to teach them the "word of God?" Are they still doomed forever?

BlackCat

 

[kurious_kathy]

I doubt I'll get a response, but here goes. What about the great person that Genesius mentioned, who did great works, but wasn't a christian? What if that person never had anyone around them to teach them the "word of God?" Are they still doomed forever?

BlackCat

If God needs to get to that person before they die, he will. It's the mere fact that we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. If we die outside of Christ, then yes scripture says it's too late. But I don't think there is one of us that are not given the chance to receive Christ before we die.
The only innocent ones are the babies who never got the chance to live, like the aborted babies. They never sinned so it would appear they are in heaven with Jesus.

 

[Cosmo]

Interesting avatar you've got there, kathy. It's an anime-angel-flappy-thing.

In this book by R.C. Sproul “Justified By Faith Alone" he ends the book with these two summaries.

This appears to be (yet another) reproduction by kathy of a copyrighted work.

 

[Freethinker]

The only innocent ones are the babies who never got the chance to live, like the aborted babies. They never sinned so it would appear they are in heaven with Jesus.

Here's your chance Kathy. I'm asking you to show me this in the bible. You can cite scripture here. Where, oh where is it?