The Gospel

UrsulaV said:
Well, granted that I'm a moral* and godless being, I'd say they're the morality I am demonstrating by not, for example, burying dismembered hobos under my house.

I admit, a day of watching me not doing bad things would be pretty boring, but I'm happy to demonstrate a godless morality in action any time you care to watch.


*well, reasonably moral. I used to pirate Amiga software when I was a teenager.
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and your morality is based on what?
 
lostnick3 said:
and your morality is based on what?
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A combination of empathy (which is based on a well-developed and highly evolved imagination) and fear of legal and social consequences (which are based 'pon a learned understanding of a complex existing social system.)

God not required.
 
UrsulaV said:
A combination of empathy (which is based on a well-developed and highly evolved imagination) and fear of legal and social consequences (which are based 'pon a learned understanding of a complex existing social system.)

God not required.
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nope not buying it, the big strong guy's always void that line of reasoning.
 
lostnick3 said:
nope not buying it, the big strong guy's always void that line of reasoning.
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Huh?

Can you say this in a way that actually makes sense? I can't figure out what you're trying to say. Are you saying that since some strong guys don't follow this morality, therefore I can't possibly be doing so?

That doesn't make a shred of sense. Can you try to communicate a little more effectively, maybe with a complete sentence or two?
 
UrsulaV said:
Huh?

Can you say this in a way that actually makes sense? I can't figure out what you're trying to say. Are you saying that since some strong guys don't follow this morality, therefore I can't possibly be doing so?

That doesn't make a shred of sense. Can you try to communicate a little more effectively, maybe with a complete sentence or two?
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excuse me i get a little wound up.

what I'm saying that the strongest group of men in a society make the laws and dictate the morality. without a god the sociaty has no where to point to and say no thats not right.
 
lostnick3 said:
misquoting me then asking questions isn't gonna work either.
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Isn't Jesus basically just the biggest strong guy making up the rules? Explain to me how getting your morality from him is any different than getting your morality from someone else. Someone told you to act a certain way, so you do. The person who told you happens to be your super strong imaginary friend, but the principle is basically the same as the strawman you're castigating.
lostnick3 said:
its back to the adult chat thread for you.
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Wow. That joke didn't get any better in its second telling. Keep trying, though. I'm sure it'll really be funny the third time.
 
lostnick3 said:
i sure your gonna show me exactly where that fits in.
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Non sequitur is Latin for "it does not follow." In formal logic, an argument is a non sequitur if the conclusion does not follow from the premise.
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Can you see how that might apply to your argument?

Pemise: A person does not believe in God.
Conclusion: That person cannot have morals.
 
So in your world:

People are such dumb brutes that without a God, they have no sense that to rape is wrong, or that to murder is wrong, or that to steal is wrong. So without God, I would think the man holding a gun to my head while he rapes me is doing a good and right thing, is that it? In fact, I'd lie down for him, wouldn't I? I'd applaud his performance when he was done, and if he didn't blow my brains out, I'd give him the addresses of my closest friends so he could do them next.

Without God, I'd think it was perfectly fine to slowly dismember a small animal; I'd take delight in watching a bomb go off in a bus; I'd line up for the chance to kick a homeless person.

And this really makes sense to you? Really?







Really?
 
To those of us (a small minority here) who believe in God, you'd have to have humans without a god to know if they'd be moral or not.
I say yes, as athiests (sp?) are moral. People have compassion (most do) and know that hurting someone is wrong. Thats morals right there.
Though some christians would say thats only because we are created in his image, so god made us compassionate.
A difficult theory to prove.
 
psy kick said:
People have compassion (most do) and know that hurting someone is wrong. Thats morals right there.
Though some christians would say thats only because we are created in his image, so god made us compassionate.
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Assuming the argument then what difference does it make? By this logic believing in god doesn't make you care about others. We do so because we were created in his image so whether there is a god or whether there isn't makes no difference.

In case it wasn't clear I'm agreeing with you just taking issue with the argument you ascribe to some Christians.
 
psy kick said:
To those of us (a small minority here) who believe in God, you'd have to have humans without a god to know if they'd be moral or not.
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This is a non-starter since we can't prove that there is or isn't a god.

How about examining humans who don't believe in god? There are societies and people who don't. We could look to them. Is there any demonstrable data to show that atheists are immoral/amoral.
 
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