The Gospel

geetarmoore said:
I would think that someone with critical thinking skills would be critical in all aspects of their life....

Unless they were deeply brainwashed into the cult from birth...... :(
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Well two examples that come to my mind are C.S.Lewis, and Lee Strobel.

These guys are very critical thinkers that did the research and wrote many books about it. Seems many here have chose to shoot those things down to.

My question is have you read some of their works for yourself, or are you just siding with other skeptics opinions?

Lee Strobels book...."Case For Christ" is excellent.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Well two examples that come to my mind are C.S.Lewis, and Lee Strobel.

These guys are very critical thinkers that did the research and wrote many books about it. Seems many here have chose to shoot those things down to.

My question is have you read some of their works for yourself, or are you just siding with other skeptics opinions?

Lee Strobels book...."Case For Christ" is excellent.
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Yes, most of us are quite well read.

Have you read anything by Carl Sagan, Michael Shermer, or James Randi?

I didn't think so.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I was talking on another forum about a topic called what's up with avoiding the occult. Somehow one of the gals made a remark about an atheist point of view, and I did mention I had met many over here. I asked if anyone would care to talk to you guys,unfortunately most of them said it was not worth their effort as someone who has chosen to take this atheistic point of view would never be willing to hear anything a Christian had to say.

On the contrary other christians told me I should stop talking to you guys about anything related to Christ, as to you would never be willing to be open to it!
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Keep in mind; critical thinking, and skepticism, are approaches to examining evidence. Atheism/agnosticism are religion oriented catagorizations.

The comments you are paraphrasing are sweeping generalizations. They may be based upon an individuals experiences with people, or they could be the result of preconceived notions.

If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would put my money on the notion that you will probably not convert anyone on this board to Christianity. I would, however, also bet that you can get some healthy intellectual debate going on.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Keep in mind; critical thinking, and skepticism, are approaches to examining evidence. Atheism/agnosticism are religion oriented catagorizations.

The comments you are paraphrasing are sweeping generalizations. They may be based upon an individuals experiences with people, or they could be the result of preconceived notions.

If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would put my money on the notion that you will probably not convert anyone on this board to Christianity. I would, however, also bet that you can get some healthy intellectual debate going on.
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Except that kathy doesn't debate. She preaches.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Well two examples that come to my mind are C.S.Lewis, and Lee Strobel. These guys are very critical thinkers that did the research and wrote many books about it. Seems many here have chose to shoot those things down to. My question is have you read some of their works for yourself, or are you just siding with other skeptics opinions.
Lee Strobels book...."Case For Christ" is excellent.
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I did the research and came out diametrically opposed to their outcomes.

I have and did read McDowells apologetic work. Waste of 25 dollars.

What kind of 'Case for Christ' could a real critical thinker make?

JC by name or 'Christians' by group appear in only 4 documents outside of the bible and rejected Gospel texts from that general time in history. One document is suspected of being heavily altered, one of them may actually pertain to someone else, three of the documents come from the second century, and the earliest one was written some 60 years after the supposed crucifixion.

Why didn't any contemporary writers record the amazing story of a guy getting beat to death (see the Mad Max Jesus Movie) then COMMING BACK TO LIFE???!!!????

Doesn't it seem odd that we only have 4 suspicious at best historical records of the most important man the world has ever known?

Moving on to the Biblical accounts.... The Gospel writers were anonymous, even though they like to fool you into thinking these were eyewitness accounts by naming them 'Matt, Mark Luke and John'. There is a real good chance that even the earliest gospel was written late enough that the author couldn't have even been an eyewitness to the life of Christ, if in fact Christ even existed.

What kind of actual critical thinking is there to do on this topic that doesn't end in a big old ball of 'NO FRICKIN' WAY!!!!'?.......
 
Belz... said:
Ah! Fundies. How did I ever miss this thread before ? I love fundies. All they do is quote the bibble all the time as though it was the only book in the universe. They keep judging other people's beliefs, and expect theirs to be respected. They abhor logic, but try to make their own argument seem logical. They're walking, breathing ironies.



Who ?
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Belz,
I'm sorry, I shoulda clued you in to the fun that we're having over here. Feel free to participate in your indominable style.
 
I just don't understand atheism? You guys. Call it preaching if you like but I know what I believe. I'm just gona end this thread with John 8: 12-30 taken from the NASB...

12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Jesus Defends His Self-Witness

13 The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”
14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. 17 It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”
19 Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?”
Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”
20 These words Jesus spoke in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no one laid hands on Him, for His hour had not yet come.
Jesus Predicts His Departure

21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”
22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”
And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”
27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.
28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.
 
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Judgmental are we?

Ask us again what we find offensive?

Rebel? Against something we don't acknowlege?
 
kurious_kathy said:
I just don't understand atheism? You guys can't even admit you are rebelling against God. Call it preaching if you like but I know what I believe. Too bad I see you are on the wrong side of right!
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You are deluded. You will find that none of us are rebelling against God, KK. You will find, however, that we understand as absolute fact that God (at least in the form as depicted in the bible) does not exist.

You aren't on the wrong site of right, KK. You are just on the wrong side of reason.
 
HerNibs said:
Judgmental are we?

Ask us again what we find offensive?

Rebel? Against something we don't acknowlege?
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Your'e right that was casting judgement and I totally quenched the spirit. So I edited it and I will say I'm sorry to anyone I offended in that statement. I don't want to be judgemental. It's just hard for me to understand how so many can't see it.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I just don't understand atheism? You guys. Call it preaching if you like but I know what I believe. I'm just gona end this thread with John 8: 12-30 taken from the NASB...
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And the preaching begins again. But kathy's said she's not here to preach! so she must just be trying to show us how evil and sinful our ways are, not preaching.

Of course not preaching.

Hey, hypocrite! Don't you see how judgemental you are?

I am not rebelling against any God. I am rebelling against the very human invention of religion as a means of justifying evil and bigoted thinking, and used as a means of control.

Oh, and I'm rebelling against idiots like you.

But, as a pont of order, I find no evidence for God ergo there is nothing in God to rebel against. God simply does not exist.
 
fowlsound said:
I'm repeating this question as it seems johnymoonburn ignores questions just as much as kathy.

So johny, were you informed of kathy's ministering here by kathy herself?

Didja hear about us in the conference room in the bunker?
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Actually, I was referred here from Bigfoot Forums. Yet another capable form of faith being the evidence of those things "unseen" or in my case a witnessed account on some occasions.

"Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

John 20.29 KJV

I will politely answer your questions as best I can. And bigfoot does not hold a candle to Christ, but I am The Thomas of the GigantoPithecus realm.
 
johnymoonburn said:
Actually, I was referred here from Bigfoot Forums. Yet another capable form of faith being the evidence of those things "unseen" or in my case a witnessed account on some occasions.

"Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

John 20.29 KJV

I will politely answer your questions as best I can. And bigfoot does not hold a candle to Christ, but I am The Thomas of the GigantoPithecus realm.
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I dunno, there's about as much credible evidence for Bigfoot as there is for God...
 
I'll go so far as to say I am rebelling against the idea of a god.
But the others are quite right: just as a wiccan can't worship the devil, because wicca doesn't acknowledge the devil, so an atheist can't rebel against that which he doesn't believe exists.
 
kurious_kathy said:
People who choose to judge others should first examine what is in their own heart...!
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Why the hell did your god choose to give you a brain if you're never going to take it out of the bubble wrap?

We judge each other all the time, and it often saves our lives.
That guy isn't safe to be around; that woman will take my purse if I don't watch her; that mom is abusing her child; that man is wrong to rip off those elderly people....

You judge people all the time, Kathy. You judge us to be sinners, because we don't ascribe to your beliefs. THAT'S WRONG. Only God, according to your own religion, can judge us as sinners. So what are you here flapping your yap for? Because you've judged us and want to save us.

I know your beliefs better than you do right now. I've had 30 years on you, you baby christian, you. Once you told us about God, and we said "no thanks," your continuing to stick around to continue telling and telling and telling us about it is judgmental of you. Go now, and sin no more!

No, really, go now.

BTW, the "critical" in "critical thinking" is not a statement of degree (as in "critical condition") as you seem to think, but of type or kind (as in logical thinking, stinking thinking, and critical thinking).

Try it some time, if you can ever figure out how.

Hey, Fowlsound? She won't ever read Sagan: "Demon-Haunted World?" Nah, I'm willing to bet real money the only book she will ever allow herself to read that has the word "demon" in it is the Babble.
 
The discussion of what is or is not unchristian, or whether a given Christian is or is not behaving as a good one, puts me in mind of one of Albert Camus' prefatory remarks in a statement he made to an audience of believers:

I believe indeed that the Christian has many obligations but that it is not up to the man who rejects them himself to recall their existence to anyone who has already accepted them. If there is anyone who can ask anything of the Christian, it is the Christian himself.

- Albert Camus, "The Unbeliever and Christians" (trans. J. O'Brien)
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For a non-Christian to ignore this principle, and to call the Christian to task for being unchristian or a "bad Christian" on the basis of an external view of Christianity, Camus argued, was a form of "lay pharisaism" to be avoided in good conscience.

Sometimes I find myself in the role of such a lay pharisee. Yet, as often as presence of mind permits, I tend to side with Camus.
 
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I think my BS buffer is at overflow status. If I read any more irrational religious nonsense I'm likely to suffer some sort of malfunction, I'm sure of it.

I think I'll leave it to you guys for a while. I'm off for four days, (Australia day holiday tomorrow to start), so good luck with it.
 
ceo esq - Camus was wrong. Calling people who profess something to account is always right.

Quit trying to pretend that you're not an out-and-out apologist for the superstitious pile of woo that you call christianity.
 
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