The Gospel

[Trantor]

Yes, everything in that book came from God.

Slavery is ok by God. Women are beneath men, and should do as they are told. God requires blood sacrifices in order to be pleased. God can and does command his people to commit violent cruelty against non-believers, including children. Jonah was swallowed by a whale for three days and lived. Multible spouses are ok for men, but not for women. And as an after-thought, God made the stars also...

From my Biblical readings, it seems God favors Men. I wonder why? Could it be that Men had something to do with the writing and editing? Just a thought.

It amazes me that people can accept this book as having anything to do with God. All you have to do is read it and think about what you are reading. But thinking seems to be difficult for the average believer. It is easier to just accept and follow.

 

[Moochie]

Oh no it's not. There are many things I don't trust to believe in, but the word of God is true!

I think God is speaking all the time. The question is whether or not people are listening?

Is God Speaking?

The question is vital. Left to ourselves we are totally ignorant of God. Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? God is beyond our understanding and we need him to reveal himself to us.

etc., etc., etc.

Just imagine for one moment that there is a god, KK, but that the bible has bogger all to do with it.

And imagine that this god is not a him, or a her, or an it.

And imagine that this god is just the way things were, are, and will be.

And you matter as much to this god as the smallest molecule and the largest star.

Just imagine.



M.

 

[Ossai]

kurious_kathy

After 2000 years no expert in any field has ever disproved a single statement in the Bible.

Being overly pedantic here, but you’re right. No expert has ever disproved a single statement in the bible. Once an experts start looking entire biblical sections fall apart, not just a single statement.

I know dozens that have been mentioned at various points in this thread and numerous questions, specifically about the bible, which you refuse to answer.

Ossai

 

[UrsulaV]

Well, duh! The Eagles would have fallen under the influence of the ring and given it to Sauron.

Okay, so you put the hobbit on the eagle, then! The hobbit held out for weeks, surely he could have lasted an eighteen hour flight to Mordor.

 

[slingblade]

Okay, so you put the hobbit on the eagle, then! The hobbit held out for weeks, surely he could have lasted an eighteen hour flight to Mordor.

Fell Beasts.

 

[Palimpsest]

Fell Beasts.

But Return of the King showed they're no match for the Eagles in aerial combat. So you send in a whole squadron of Eagles to escort Frodo. Since it seems Mordor has no other air support, it's smooth sailing.

 

[bluess]

Yeah, but then how would Gollum have gotten to Mordor to swan dive the ring into the fires? And what about Sam. He was pretty tubby. Those poor eagles.

 

[ChristineR]

But Return of the King showed they're no match for the Eagles in aerial combat. So you send in a whole squadron of Eagles to escort Frodo. Since it seems Mordor has no other air support, it's smooth sailing.

Are you forgetting the Nazgul? They would have a serious advantage in any battle for the Ring. It doesn't matter how many Fell Beasts go down if a Nazgul can get to the Ring.

 

[delphi_ote]

If we really want to get picky, why did Illuvatar create Morgoth in the first place? There would have been no Sauron and no Ring. The hobbits could have lived happily in The Shire forever.

Look out, I might get this thread back on topic!

ETA Am I some kind of super-nerd because I knew "Illuvatar" and "Morgoth" off the top of my head?

 

[merentha]

If we really want to get picky, why did Illuvatar create Morgoth in the first place? There would have been no Sauron and no Ring. The hobbits could have lived happily in The Shire forever.

Look out, I might get this thread back on topic!

I suppose it's the same reason the God in the bible created the snake. No snake, no temptation, no story.

 

[delphi_ote]

I suppose it's the same reason the God in the bible created the snake. No snake, no temptation, no story.

Creating evil still makes Illuvatar and Yaweh responsible for evil. If they did it just to make a good story, they're both some serious jerks!

 

[Palimpsest]

Are you forgetting the Nazgul? They would have a serious advantage in any battle for the Ring. It doesn't matter how many Fell Beasts go down if a Nazgul can get to the Ring.

It looks like the Nazgul's aura of fear doesn't affect the giant Eagles. And they don't have any ranged weapons. So in the air, it's basically Fell Beast vs. Eagle, unless the Nazgul gets in a lucky strike with its blades (which, granted, wouldn't do the Eagle much good).

And once the Beast's wounded enough, what's a Wraith to do? Can it run faster than an Eagle can fly? It'll never reach Frodo before he gets to the Crack of Doom.

Now, it's true, the very proximity of a Nazgul is dangerous to the Ringbearer, especially within Mordor, but hopefully, the encounter would be brief. Although the Eye would almost certainly be watching, and that could be a hell of a lot worse.

Well, it's a tradeoff. Speed vs. secrecy. Is it better to fight off Nazgul and endure Sauron's gaze for a few hours, or sneak in and be exposed to the Ring for weeks?

 

[Palimpsest]

If we really want to get picky, why did Illuvatar create Morgoth in the first place? There would have been no Sauron and no Ring. The hobbits could have lived happily in The Shire forever.

Hey, here's a nitpick that just occured to me.

Bilbo started aging rapidly after he gave up the Ring. A few months(?) afterwards, he really did look eleventy-one. So why didn't Gollum age the same way? He's over five hundred years old, yet he lived on for sixty more years after being separated from the Ring.

 

[Roadtoad]

Look out, I might get this thread back on topic!

Was it ever on topic?

 

[merentha]

Hey, here's a nitpick that just occured to me.

Bilbo started aging rapidly after he gave up the Ring. A few months(?) afterwards, he really did look eleventy-one. So why didn't Gollum age the same way? He's over five hundred years old, yet he lived on for sixty more years after being separated from the Ring.

Ah, the miraculous benefits of a raw diet and 500 years of a sunless existence.

 

[Ossai]

Palimpsest

Bilbo started aging rapidly after he gave up the Ring. A few months(?) afterwards, he really did look eleventy-one. So why didn't Gollum age the same way? He's over five hundred years old, yet he lived on for sixty more years after being separated from the Ring.

It is linked to the length of owning the ring as well as how often it was used. Bilbo only owned the ring 60 years or so and limited it’s use considerably. He also didn’t give in to the ring completely, hence his ability to give it up at his elevendeth first birthday party. His use of it then was probably the rings influence.
Gollum had it for centuries and probably used it everyday. He was under it’s sway completely by the time Bilbo found the ring.

Ossai

 

[merentha]

Creating evil still makes Illuvatar and Yaweh responsible for evil. If they did it just to make a good story, they're both some serious jerks!

Playing Sims gets boring after a while if all the little characters do are eat and sleep. Anyhow, what's the point of being a powerful deity if one can't cook up some excuse to do a little smiting now and then?

 

[UrsulaV]

It looks like the Nazgul's aura of fear doesn't affect the giant Eagles. And they don't have any ranged weapons. So in the air, it's basically Fell Beast vs. Eagle, unless the Nazgul gets in a lucky strike with its blades (which, granted, wouldn't do the Eagle much good).

And since you've got elves who can surf down a dying pachyderm while shooting arrows machine-gun-style in your army, why not put elves on Eagles as an escort? Gandalf rode an eagle, and he's gotta be way heavier than a pansy elf. Then your archers can keep the Fell Beasts busy while protecting the important Eagle, who just has to do a flyover of Mt. Doom.

Of course, this is probably right up there with "Why not encase the ring in a concrete brick so I'm not tempted to wear the thing?" as "stuff too logical to make a good story."

 

[UrsulaV]

If we really want to get picky, why did Illuvatar create Morgoth in the first place? There would have been no Sauron and no Ring. The hobbits could have lived happily in The Shire forever.

And Elrond could have gone "Whoops, my foot slipped," and dumped Isilidur into a live volcano nine hundred years previous, but where's the fun of that?

 

[psy kick]

As a christian, I have been struggling lately with an unsolvable conundrum.
Maybe kathy can help.
People suffer. Children suffer. Either 1. God is not all powerful and cannot alleviate this or
2. God can, but chooses not so, for some unfathomable reason. He then canNOT be a God of love, as a father, or god, would, if He was able, releive the suffering of those he loves.

I am leaning towards 1., as I don't want to think He just doesn't care enough to help.
Can you tell I'm going through hard times?