The giant cop out

[Thanz]

Also I love NASCAR, if that says anything about my personality.

Frankly, I'm not surprised, leftist. Only a true leftist could get joy out of watching people turn left for 500 miles.

 

[Malachi151]

You need a "just show me the answers" button. I know too much about politicians to even try to predict the answers, dude.

Strange it appears to be broken at the moment anyway. Oh well, I'll just edit it out since its not working.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Yep, I fit squarely with the Greens, and as this shows the Democrats are not leftists in America.

This is also interesing, though a bit trivial:

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/iconochasms.html

That is the funniest political spectrum chart that I have ever seen. Did Stalin make that for you, or did you make it on your mommy's computer?

JK

 

[Tony]

Yep, I fit squarely with the Greens, and as this shows the Democrats are not leftists in America.

This is also interesing, though a bit trivial:

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/iconochasms.html

Isnt this scale in the context of British political parties?

 

[Malachi151]

Isnt this scale in the context of British political parties?

Yeah, taking a second look I think it is. I was thinking that it was a mix of both the Brithish and American. Still, I think the translates pretty well.

The Green Party, Democrats, and Conservatives (Republicans) are all in about those same places in America.

 

[no one in particular]

It doesn't work that way. No suprize, though Tony agrees with you

If this is your attempt to classify me as “right wing” then I suggest that you failed miserably. Right wing I am not, sir.

You don't compare one country to another to determine where a country is in the politcal spectrum you compare a country against the political spectrum itself.

You may not, but I just did.

What you said is like saying that one block is red, the other is yellow, and so the one that is orange is in the middle of the spectrum.

Except that what I said is not like that at all.

The political spectrum stands on its own and is comprized of all politcal ideology. Everycountry in the world can be right wing, or left wing and that would not mean that the countries between Nazi fascist at one extreme and American Republican at the other were centrict countries, it would mean that everyone is shifted to the right.

Oh, you must mean except for when they ARE compared to those other countries. What you do not get is that these concepts are not truisms. Political parties are imagined concepts that are not factually based and you or I may redefine or slot these concepts as we see fit. The actual parties in this spectrum redefine and reclassify themselves regularly.

In American the acceptable politcal spectrume ranges from far right like David Duke, Pat Buchannan, Jerry Falwell (all of these people get airtime and lots of press)…

It is called “demand”, look it up.

…to mild left such as Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.

Ahem, Nader?

Far Left would be Marxists and Communsits. When was the last time you saw Communsits giving speeches on TV and being given serious air time equal to Falwell types? Marxism and Communism are still dirty words in America.

Yay!

This test kind fo sucks, and I dont think its accurate, btu nonetheless:

No thanks…it did not work anyway.

 

[Malachi151]

If this is your attempt to classify me as “right wing” then I suggest that you failed miserably. Right wing I am not, sir.

No, I was saying that your statement was illogical, and its no suprize that Tony agrees with an illogical statement.

Except that what I said is not like that at all.

Actually it was.

Oh, you must mean except for when they ARE compared to those other countries. What you do not get is that these concepts are not truisms. Political parties are imagined concepts that are not factually based and you or I may redefine or slot these concepts as we see fit. The actual parties in this spectrum redefine and reclassify themselves regularly.

I'm not talking about politcal parties, I'm talking about established ideology. I fail to see the need to go on with this as why I'm saying is a proven fact when anyone who knows anything about political ideology would agree with. The site I directed you to is such an example.

It is called “demand”, look it up.

First of is assume that it is all demand that only proves my point. I said that America is shifted to the right, so if there is more demand for right wingers, then that proves what I said true does it not? Second of all, its not all demand, though much of it is, its also political marketing and the airing of acceptable views. Those views are more acceptable in America then views of the extreme left.

Ahem, Nader?

Okay, I'll give you Nader, but Nader has virtually no establishment support, those other guys did. Stil, I'll give you Nader and move it farther to the left.

Yay!

All I was proving is that the far left is not represented in America. Everyone in America can agree that that is good, and we can say that it is good, but the fact still remians that the far left is not represented. Its just a fact that has to be observed if you are discussing the poltical spectrum of America.

No thanks…it did not work anyway.

Actually when I liked it I was thinking it was a different and shorter test. The one I linked is actually decent.

 

[Tricky]

Frankly, I'm not surprised, leftist. Only a true leftist could get joy out of watching people turn left for 500 miles.

Damn, I knew there was some reason I liked stock car racin'. But if you call my cousin Billy Earl a leftist, you better expeck to get yore head stove in.

 

[no one in particular]

No, I was saying that your statement was illogical…

Really? Are you certain about that? I would appreciate an analysis of what, specifically, you find illogical about that statement. If you are unable to show the illogic of the statement I would appreciate a retraction. I will place it here, just so you do not have to go looking for it:

So, I think that the US is not shifted to the right as compared to Europe/Canada, it nicely in the center as compared to the world.

Just to be clear, I am perfectly willing to accept that you may demonstrate that my statement is wrong, perhaps by demonstrating that the political spectrum is a set reality instead of a subjective model. But illogical? Please, be specific.

Actually it was.

Okay then, show which country/political idea correlates to which block. After you have done so, describe how this relates to my statement.

I'm not talking about politcal parties, I'm talking about established ideology. I fail to see the need to go on with this as why I'm saying is a proven fact

Fascinating, please explain how ideology can be established as a fixed fact. You seem to be placing a lot of weight on the political scale you posted. The political scale (and the many like it) has four political extremes. You may place anywhere you would like on this scale on any extreme. Also, it is possible to share nuances of neighboring ideologies. This is where the problem with the scale emerges. The problem is that Libertarians and Communist both have stated economic philosophies. They are in actuality opposing concepts. How would it be possible for an extreme position to be taken in both ideologies placing the red dot at the bottom left of the scale? It is shown on the scale as a possible position, how can this be? Well, you may say that the Authoritarian and the Libertarian are only taking social, not economic, positions on the scale, but then it would not be a very encompassing scale then, would it?

…when anyone who knows anything about political ideology would agree with.

Argumentum ad numerum? I suggest you refrain from using the term “logic” in a debate. It points out just how ridiculous you are, especially when you make basic errors like this.

First of is assume that it is all demand that only proves my point. I said that America is shifted to the right, so if there is more demand for right wingers, then that proves what I said true does it not?

Of course the US is shifted to right just now (house, senate and executive). I would expect it to shift back at some point. I enjoy the nice balance that we have here in the US. The extreme positions that some folks take is what keeps us centered.

Second of all, its not all demand, though much of it is, its also political marketing and the airing of acceptable views. Those views are more acceptable in America then views of the extreme left.

What extreme left? The mythical extreme? The unachievable extreme? I suggest that the true extreme left is the actual practiced system of parties like the Greens. If this is true, then Hillary (a well supported candidate) is not far off that mark.

Okay, I'll give you Nader…

No thanks, you can keep him.

…but Nader has virtually no establishment support…

Okay, maybe it is my location, but if I see one more of those “Bush and Gore’s environmental policy make me wanna Ralf” bumper stickers I am going to hurt someone.

…those other guys did. Stil, I'll give you Nader and move it farther to the left.

Of course centrist have more support than extremist in the US, that is my point. You don’t see an awful lot of support for The Constitution Party either, do you?

All I was proving is that the far left is not represented in America. Everyone in America can agree that that is good, and we can say that it is good, but the fact still remians that the far left is not represented. Its just a fact that has to be observed if you are discussing the poltical spectrum of America.

I would be willing to concede that the extreme left ideology is underrepresented in the US. In order for me to do that however, I would like you to address how these parties , although not popularly supported, constitutes under representation: Socialist Workers Party, Socialist Labor Party, Socialist Equality Party, Workers World Party, Socialist Action Party, The Green Party, Socialist Party USA, New Union Party, New Party, The Greens USA Party, Freedom Socialist Party, and the bluntly named Communist Party USA. It would appear that the modern day Marxist/left in the US is not under represented, but under supported.

The scale you are using places communism on the far left as a reference point. The problem is that communism exists only in (a perhaps unachievable) ideology, whereas radical Muslim conservatism (which I’ll concede is also toward the authoritarian direction of most quadridirectional political scales) is practiced in the real world. Therefore my statement that the US is in the middle of the world’s (actual and practiced, not just advanced as ideology) political spectrum is, I think, reasonable.

 

[Dancing David]

Come on, this entire thread is a logic fallacy.
JK

Jk thats the first good laugh I've had in a while. If thats how you excuse your labeling go ahead, dude.


This thread is much needed and a great thing. I may have a tendancy to identify with the left but I sometimes lean to the right. It is never all or nothing depite what the kook meister may want to tell you.

I used to never vote straight party, it became a habit only after the republican party ticked me off during the Regan era. But then I frequently go and cross vote for Republican candidates.

Why? beacuse I vote for the person I feel will do the best job. Maybe we should have a compare and contrast thread.

Peace

 

[KelvinG]

In general, I don't expect certain posters to stop the cowardly labelling that goes on here. Obviously persons on this board have the right to express themselves as they see fit.
But, I know for myself, I'm going to give much less value to any poster who cops out and resort to such desperate tactics.

And if anyone spots me doing, feel free to give me a kick in the ass.