The Genesis Seal

[dafydd]

There is a qualitative rift between my perception and yours. You say there is aesthetic beauty in the patterns obtained from my OP. I, on the other hand, am saying that there is content but no appreciable order. One example will suffice, though there are plenty more in The Genesis Seal.

In the G1 Square, the extreme R-H corner (3x3 group) contains the vertical emergent word for 'light', and the contrasting, horizontal, emergent word for 'thick darkness'. When the text is reversed in the G4 Square (but following the same spiral path), the same 3x3 zone contains 'a ram' in place of thick darkness, and 'life' in place of light. If we regard the ram as a sacrificial animal, there is a clear conceptual similarity between the two pairs of words. They are not just in the same location, they convey the same sort of contrasting ideas.
If you don't accept the improbability of this happening by accident (and I do accept that coincidences happen all the time), then I can show several more examples. As I am sure you will know, by the laws of probability, the odds against them all happening by chance alone is the product of the odds against each of them individually. The trouble is, it must be practically impossible to put real numbers in these boxes.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to get some sleep.

When you wake up present this anecdotal evidence.

 

[Hokulele]

You should know that I have already conceded that I can never hope to climb that particular mountain. So I am pressing ahead with the undiminished possibility that, for some purposes, proof of that sort is not required.

Jon. is completely correct. If you cannot climb that mountain, why make claims about it? For the purposes of convincing people that your assertions regarding the "special" status of your sample are sound, proof of that sort is absolutely required. You cannot hold your sample to one set of standards and everything else to a different set.

 

[Jon.]

You should know that I have already conceded that I can never hope to climb that particular mountain. So I am pressing ahead with the undiminished possibility that, for some purposes, proof of that sort is not required.

I am presenting material that implies people of the past must have revered this phenomenon without proof. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence available to make it likely the Genesis Seal (illusion, if you like) had an influence in human affairs. If you demand proof that it is not an illusion, you rule out-of-hand a potential tool in any number of academic disciplines.

Fair enough; however, if that is what you are trying to do, you're going about it the wrong way. The right way would have been to come here and say "Look, here's the evidence that a whole bunch of people in the past thought there was a peculiar pattern in Genesis, and that they acted on it." The fact that you did not do that, and resisted providing even the evidence you admit is anecdotal, has made people doubt your sincerity on that point.

I read your explanation of why you think that your Genesis Seal is connected with Egyptian mythology, and I have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed. You found two or three words in your Seal that have some connection with elements found in each segment of an Egyptian myth. Big deal; I'm sure if we went through the so-called "MRC Secret Seal" we would find words that fit into elements found in a Greek myth, or a Norse one, or a Chinese one, or in Scientology, or somewhere. The number of words available in any such arrangement of letters and the number of disparate myths in various cultures makes it unthinkable that there wouldn't be some connection at that level.

Now, if you want to convince people here (whether the members of the forum or the visitors you keep talking about) that some people in the past thought there was a pattern in Genesis, and that that idea influenced their behaviour, then kindly present that evidence, anecdotal or otherwise*. Stop beating around the proverbial bush and get to the point. If and when you can establish that part of it, then it might make sense to see what pattern they thought they saw.

*Oh, and I think, based on the Egyptian myths post, that you might misunderstand the difference between "anecdotal" and "speculative."

 

[Kingfisher2926]

Present this anecdotal evidence.

So far:

1. Genesis 1:1 by itself demonstrating a classical proof for the Theorem of Pythagoras, while Pythagoras was contemporary with the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, at the time when the Hebrew Torah first took more or less its present form.
2. The presence in the G4 Square of the word p'nei (a face), each letter being source of 'an ox' (Taurus), 'an eagle' (Jewish version of Scorpio), 'a lion' (Leo) and 'flowing water' (Aquarius). Not to mention Pisces, Sagittarius, Gemini, Capricorn and Aries. But the first four 'faces' also correspond to those described by Ezekiel, who wrote during the same Babylonian Exile.
3. The Genesis Seal reveals specific language and symbolism that parallel several Egyptian myths revolving around Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. Likewise, symbolism that emulates a well-known portrait of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (who lived around the period when Moses is supposed to have led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt).
4. The very name of the modern Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

Perhaps you would like to see the Holy Grail. How about four versions of what different authors have described the Grail to be? However, I expect you will keep repeating your demand for proof to be supplied instantly. It will all come in its natural order.
I am now away to the Land of Nod.

 

[dafydd]

So far:

1. Genesis 1:1 by itself demonstrating a classical proof for the Theorem of Pythagoras, while Pythagoras was contemporary with the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, at the time when the Hebrew Torah first took more or less its present form.
2. The presence in the G4 Square of the word p'nei (a face), each letter being source of 'an ox' (Taurus), 'an eagle' (Jewish version of Scorpio), 'a lion' (Leo) and 'flowing water' (Aquarius). Not to mention Pisces, Sagittarius, Gemini, Capricorn and Aries. But the first four 'faces' also correspond to those described by Ezekiel, who wrote during the same Babylonian Exile.
3. The Genesis Seal reveals specific language and symbolism that parallel several Egyptian myths revolving around Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. Likewise, symbolism that emulates a well-known portrait of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (who lived around the period when Moses is supposed to have led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt).
4. The very name of the modern Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

.

????? Look up the meaning of the word 'anecdotal'. You are shoehorning.

 

[EvilQuest]

Kingfisher

Guess i'll have to explain it. When i've been referring to Hans' Seal i've deliberately been using the same style of language that you seem to adopt with your Genesis Seal. ie. pretentious, gushing, pseudo-intellectual tripe. There is no rift in perception, rather only a lack of perception on your part. (Did i need to explain this?)

I notice you were very careful not to quote my entire post. ie. the final question that i posed. It's ok. I can appreciate the difficulties you will clearly have in addressing it.

 

[dafydd]

We have another Corn Gods thread here. Is there any room in AAH?

 

[Jon.]

So far:

1. Genesis 1:1 by itself demonstrating a classical proof for the Theorem of Pythagoras, while Pythagoras was contemporary with the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, at the time when the Hebrew Torah first took more or less its present form.
2. The presence in the G4 Square of the word p'nei (a face), each letter being source of 'an ox' (Taurus), 'an eagle' (Jewish version of Scorpio), 'a lion' (Leo) and 'flowing water' (Aquarius). Not to mention Pisces, Sagittarius, Gemini, Capricorn and Aries. But the first four 'faces' also correspond to those described by Ezekiel, who wrote during the same Babylonian Exile.
3. The Genesis Seal reveals specific language and symbolism that parallel several Egyptian myths revolving around Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. Likewise, symbolism that emulates a well-known portrait of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (who lived around the period when Moses is supposed to have led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt).
4. The very name of the modern Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

This is a list of coincidences, nothing more. And in one case, at least (the Golden Dawn), the coincidence you identified occurred recently enough that there may be some evidence out there regarding how the name was chosen. I trust you have researched this point, and found either that (a) the three founders identified the Genesis Seal (under whatever name or description they used) as the source of the name or (b) the three founders never said anything about the source of the name.

In the case of (a), you have a strong point, although I'm not yet convinced that the H.O.G.D. ever had much influence in human affairs, at least beyond 20th-century occultism, which in turn has not had much influence at all on human affairs, as far as I can see (other than maybe the title of the fourth Led Zeppelin album).

In the case of (b), you have less of a point, but at least you haven't proven your theory to be complete hogwash.

Of course, if the founders did say something about their choice of a name, and if it had nothing at all to do with Genesis, then that would harm your theory.

See how it works?

Now, it's a bit more difficult for the other examples, but others have pointed out weaknesses and flaws with them already.

 

[Jon.]

We have another Corn Gods thread here. Is there any room in AAH?

As long as we don't all get sued.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Of course, if the founders did say something about their choice of a name, and if it had nothing at all to do with Genesis, then that would harm your theory.

See how it works?

Rubbish, this scenario would be the strongest possible evidence for the Genesis Seal as it would show that the founders of the Golden Dawn had deliberately hidden the real origin of the name, because it was so secret and powerful.

 

[EvilQuest]

We have another Corn Gods thread here. Is there any room in AAH?

only if you can pay the entrance fee. it's getting full in there.

 

[Jon.]

Rubbish, this scenario would be the strongest possible evidence for the Genesis Seal as it would show that the founders of the Golden Dawn had deliberately hidden the real origin of the name, because it was so secret and powerful.

See, that's exactly the kind of tripe I would expect to see from a crypto-MRC-Secret-Sealist.

 

[jond]

So far:

1. Genesis 1:1 by itself demonstrating a classical proof for the Theorem of Pythagoras, while Pythagoras was contemporary with the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, at the time when the Hebrew Torah first took more or less its present form.
2. The presence in the G4 Square of the word p'nei (a face), each letter being source of 'an ox' (Taurus), 'an eagle' (Jewish version of Scorpio), 'a lion' (Leo) and 'flowing water' (Aquarius). Not to mention Pisces, Sagittarius, Gemini, Capricorn and Aries. But the first four 'faces' also correspond to those described by Ezekiel, who wrote during the same Babylonian Exile.
3. The Genesis Seal reveals specific language and symbolism that parallel several Egyptian myths revolving around Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. Likewise, symbolism that emulates a well-known portrait of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (who lived around the period when Moses is supposed to have led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt).
4. The very name of the modern Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

Perhaps you would like to see the Holy Grail. How about four versions of what different authors have described the Grail to be? However, I expect you will keep repeating your demand for proof to be supplied instantly. It will all come in its natural order.
I am now away to the Land of Nod.

And, on that bombshell, it's time to end. Good night.

Oh, and: I suspect the mods won't take kindly to your continued use of these forums as your publishing house...

 

[dafydd]

And, on that bombshell, it's time to end. Good night.

Oh, and: I suspect the mods won't take kindly to your continued use of these forums as your publishing house...

He just repeats himself. It's the shortest book in the world.

 

[Marduk]

Got any evidence that anything resembling the Genesis Seal was ever utilized in Egyptian mythology and art?

pyramid texts 2400bce
hebrew alphabet 1000bce
so the Genesis seal is responsible for the myths existence
and this is encoded in a language which wasn't invented for another 1400 years
ok Kewl, time travel

 

[MRC_Hans]

If, by 'references', you mean citations, then no. But I'm not sure that would be any more persuasive of the hypothesis than my own assertion.

You can't be serious! Do you mean to say that we should find your fantasies as compelling as external citations? Then allow me to say that you must be truly insane.


Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Genesis 1:1 by itself demonstrating a classical proof for the Theorem of Pythagoras, while Pythagoras was contemporary with the Babylonian Exile of the Jews, at the time when the Hebrew Torah first took more or less its present form.

Excuse me, but this is nonsense. Pythagoras' theorem is geometry. That you can find right angles triangles in a square matrix is rather elementary. You also found the numbers, but they are common numbers that can be found all over, and three numbers in a square matrix can ALWAYS be inferred to form a right-angled triangle.

The presence in the G4 Square of the word p'nei (a face), each letter being source of 'an ox' (Taurus), 'an eagle' (Jewish version of Scorpio), 'a lion' (Leo) and 'flowing water' (Aquarius). Not to mention Pisces, Sagittarius, Gemini, Capricorn and Aries. But the first four 'faces' also correspond to those described by Ezekiel, who wrote during the same Babylonian Exile.

Your first sentence in this thread predicts the global warming crisis.

The Genesis Seal reveals specific language and symbolism that parallel several Egyptian myths revolving around Isis, Osiris, Horus and Seth. Likewise, symbolism that emulates a well-known portrait of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (who lived around the period when Moses is supposed to have led the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt).

Your first sentence in this thread predicts more than that. I now have all 64 permutations. Mention something, anything, and I shall find it in your sentence.

The very name of the modern Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

Come on! "Golden Dawn" is one of the most ancient clichés in existence. It can be used to symbolize practically anything.

Perhaps you would like to see the Holy Grail. How about four versions of what different authors have described the Grail to be?

Hello! Earth calling Kingfisher! From a sufficient number of permutations of ANY text, you can find any number of allusions, if you look hard for them. Especially as you are willing to stretch your symbolism a bit.

I challenge you again: Give me something, anything; historical, religious, scientific, any statement, and I shall find an allusion to it in my permutations of your text.

As for your historical impact:

What you need to show is NOT that Pythagoras or anybody else might have perused something like the seal and recognized their idea there. That might be, and is totally uninteresting.

Instead, what you need to make probable is that someone got their idea from it. So you need to show an instance where an idea seems to come out of the blue air, from a scholar who can be expected to have discovered your Genesis Seal.

Of course, it would still prove absolutely nothing, so maybe you should use your life for something better.

Hans

 

[jond]

pyramid texts 2400bce
hebrew alphabet 1000bce
so the Genesis seal is responsible for the myths existence
and this is encoded in a language which wasn't invented for another 1400 years
ok Kewl, time travel

I'm guessing it had something to do with Atlanteans bringing the secret to Egypt...

 

[Dancing David]

I Hence a 'Golden Dawn'. I would argue that this is as good an explanation as any for the origin of the title: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and better than any I have seen to date. I shall have more to say about the significance of the 'Hermetic' component in later posts, including a brief mention in one that is coming up very soon.

Silly, when does the procession of the equinox lead to it leaving pisces and entering aquarius?

And you do know that most of the Golden Dawn was just like neo-pagansism, an made up amalgam based upon existent materials?

 

[Dancing David]

I bow out, until we meet again

Loose association and confirmation bias