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The Gates legacy

You claimed MS had done something right. What's right in trying to push an open standard out of the market and replace it with a proprietary one? In my book, that's pure, unadulterated evil. Really the only thing for what that's good is MS's chequebook.

Nothing was stopping those developers from using the OpenGL standard if they wanted, and MS hardly forced the D3D standard. It worked, it was available, and it was good enough that they wanted to adopt it. Both OpenGL and D3D contributed to the demise of the various chipset-specific implementations of 3D acceleration, which has been a win for gamers in general.

Even MS dropped the whole DirectSound thing with Vista, so games are now using the OpenAL libraries instead.

"Pure, unadulterated evil," indeed. :rolleyes:

That's a phrase I would reserve for something like the Holocaust or the ethic cleansing in Rwanda. Given that no one is even forcing you to use MS software, I think the choice of words is just a tad ridiculous.

Unless you find it somehow offensive that other people use MS products.
 
Nothing was stopping those developers from using the OpenGL standard if they wanted, and MS hardly forced the D3D standard. It worked, it was available, and it was good enough that they wanted to adopt it.
I'll take your word for it they "hardly forced it". Though this snippet from wiki page "Comparison of OpenGL and Direct3DWP" shows less than fair play in the beginning:
Microsoft had marketed Direct3D as faster based on in-house performance comparisons of these two software libraries. The performance deficit was blamed on the rigorous specification and conformance required of OpenGL. This perception was changed at the 1996 SIGGRAPH (Special Interest Group on Computer Graphics) conference. At that time, SGI challenged Microsoft with their own optimized Windows software implementation of OpenGL called CosmoGL which in various demos matched or exceeded the performance of Direct3D. For SGI, this was a critical milestone as it showed that OpenGL's poor software rendering performance was due to Microsoft's reference OpenGL implementation, and not to design flaws in OpenGL itself.

Both OpenGL and D3D contributed to the demise of the various chipset-specific implementations of 3D acceleration, which has been a win for gamers in general.
I agree.

"Pure, unadulterated evil," indeed. :rolleyes:

That's a phrase I would reserve for something like the Holocaust or the ethic cleansing in Rwanda. Given that no one is even forcing you to use MS software, I think the choice of words is just a tad ridiculous.
You're right, that was over-the-top. Of course, the game (and other software) developers who only deliver for the MS platform(s) force me to use MS Windows if I want to use their software.

Unless you find it somehow offensive that other people use MS products.
Everyone should decide for him/herself what software to use. I think the current situation with MS' very dominant (>90%) position on the PC OS market is very unhealthy; both from a competition aspect as from a security aspect. Monocultures breed insecurity, and the spam you get in your mailbox is the most visible manifestation of that. You won't hear me advocating that Linux should take over the world, or MacOS, or BSD, or BeOS, or AmigaOS, or what-have-you-not. Given a level choice in deciding which one to purchase, these "alternative" OSes could have a considerable market-share given their technical qualities and their user-friendliness.

The most important aspect of computer programs - whether OS or application - today is interoperability. In the case of the OS, the interoperability is determined by its APIs and other interfaces like network protocols. In the case of applications, this is determined by its document formats. In both categories, Microsoft has deliberately played unfair in order to stifle competition and interoperability with (would be) competitors.

A few examples. Until very recently, MS has not disclosed the SMB specs. They have deliberately changed it every Windows version so that, e.g., the Samba team had to play catch-up every time. By contrast, the NFS file sharing protocol has been open from day 1, as were the printing protocols LPD and IPP.

For making a Single Sign-On domain, on UNIX I can use the standard LDAP and Kerberos protocols to build such a domain consisting of different versions of UNIX OS'es. Although MS chose to use LDAP and Kerberos as building blocks for AD, they've mixed them in such a non-standard way that interoperability - the creation of a heterogenous UNIX/Windows domain - is still considered the holy grail in system administration.

The same I said above for SMB holds for the Word DOC-format. It has changed considerably every version of Word, to the point that old DOC-files can't be read by the current version of Word. Microsoft hasn't disclosed any of those formats. The so-called OpenXML "standard" is, at 8,000 pages and with terms like "formatlikeWord95", hardly better at "playing nice" - not even considering incidents like Microsoft Sweden's attempt at bribing the national standards committee.

As a last example I refer to Microsoft's treatment of the various web standards, which I've already mentioned in earlier posts in this thread.

In short, Microsoft has never been known to play fair when it came to implementing standards; the OpenGL incident with their slow driver is an example of that too.

Adhering to standards is important for everyone. The consumer knows that he can send the file he just produced to a colleague and the colleague can read it. The software developer knows that the software he makes not only can be compiled on his development platform but also on other platforms. The system administrator knows that, say, the LDAP server he deploys can communicate with the LDAP clients on computers with other OS'es he has deployed. The computer/OS manufacturer knows that by adhering to standards, the interoperability gives him a chance to penetrate the market.

Only the party which has cornered 90% of the computer market has no advantage in adhering to standards, and his not doing so incurs unneeded extra expenses on all other parties to realize interoperability or to succumb to the monopolist.

And for that, Microsoft is rightly punished by, e.g., the EU. The only problem is that the fines are lower than the profits it reaps from its anticompetitive behaviour, and thus do not work to rectify that.

To conclude my answer to your question: I do not find it offensive that people use Microsoft products, but I do find it offensive that people use proprietary Microsoft formats. I'd outlaw in a whim the use of DOC as a document exchange format for public institutions.
 
The same I said above for SMB holds for the Word DOC-format. It has changed considerably every version of Word, to the point that old DOC-files can't be read by the current version of Word. Microsoft hasn't disclosed any of those formats.

to which I've perviously said...

GRRRRRRRR :mad:

As I understand it, their Office marketing is similar to their OS marketing, in that you can't allow a user to have a stable system for too many years, or they might not buy further products. It sucks.

Why (when I buy a new machine later this year/early next year/almost entirely for Starcraft II) can't I get a machine with XP and Office 2003 (or a completely functional equivalent)?!

:mad:
 
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As I understand it, their Office marketing is similar to their OS marketing, in that you can't allow a user to have a stable system for too many years, or they might not buy further products. It sucks.

Hmmm? You mean Office doesn't remain stable after a few years? Our company still uses Office '97, and I haven't had any problems working with people using newer versions of the software. Even that beastly xlsx, docx, etc. format can be converted into .doc, either by them or with a free converter.

I think it's more a matter of "Hey look, isn't this cool? Don't you totally want all these new feature you absolutely can't live without?!" If you wanted basic, functional office software you could get away with Office '95 or '97. Access '95 has funky problems running on machines with large amounts of RAM, but '97 works fine on everything up through and including Vista.

Why (when I buy a new machine later this year/early next year/almost entirely for Starcraft II) can't I get a machine with XP and Office 2003 (or a completely functional equivalent)?!

Sure you can. Just build one yourself and you can put whatever you want on it. I think a lot of system builders are still offering Windows XP, and it's certainly still available for purchase.

Same deal for Office 2003.
 
You're right, that was over-the-top. Of course, the game (and other software) developers who only deliver for the MS platform(s) force me to use MS Windows if I want to use their software.

So? If they developed for a Linux machine they would force you to use Linux (presuming you didn't already) in order to use their software.

The other alternative is that you simply do without. You have no special right to play those games, and they have no obligation to provide them.

Everyone should decide for him/herself what software to use. I think the current situation with MS' very dominant (>90%) position on the PC OS market is very unhealthy; both from a competition aspect as from a security aspect. Monocultures breed insecurity, and the spam you get in your mailbox is the most visible manifestation of that.

How is the ability of users to set up machines to send unsolicited bulk email indicative of insecurity?

Are you talking about zombie networks? Isn't that a slightly different issue than that of spam generally.

You won't hear me advocating that Linux should take over the world, or MacOS, or BSD, or BeOS, or AmigaOS, or what-have-you-not. Given a level choice in deciding which one to purchase, these "alternative" OSes could have a considerable market-share given their technical qualities and their user-friendliness.

The same I said above for SMB holds for the Word DOC-format. It has changed considerably every version of Word, to the point that old DOC-files can't be read by the current version of Word. Microsoft hasn't disclosed any of those formats. The so-called OpenXML "standard" is, at 8,000 pages and with terms like "formatlikeWord95", hardly better at "playing nice" - not even considering incidents like Microsoft Sweden's attempt at bribing the national standards committee.

I'm fairly certain that the old versions actually can be read by Word. Certainly the predominant 97-2003 versions of the format can.

Didn't MS provide the format documentation on request prior to releasing it in the open? A lot of freeware teams certainly had support for it for several years.

Only the party which has cornered 90% of the computer market has no advantage in adhering to standards, and his not doing so incurs unneeded extra expenses on all other parties to realize interoperability or to succumb to the monopolist.

Y'know, outside of the world of PC gaming (which is quite a bit more hardware-dependant than general consumer computing), the level of interoperability (especially between the MS systems and the MacOS) seems to be quite a bit higher now than in the past.

To conclude my answer to your question: I do not find it offensive that people use Microsoft products, but I do find it offensive that people use proprietary Microsoft formats. I'd outlaw in a whim the use of DOC as a document exchange format for public institutions.

That is just as silly as finding it offensive that people choose to use Microsoft software, especially given the vast number of non-MS applications that can read and write DOC files.
 
Hmmm? You mean Office doesn't remain stable after a few years? Our company still uses Office '97, and I haven't had any problems working with people using newer versions of the software.

No, I said:

in that you can't allow a user to have a stable system for too many years

You get a nice, stable App on a nice, stable OS and are finally happy when...

I think it's more a matter of "Hey look, isn't this cool? Don't you totally want all these new feature you absolutely can't live without?!"

I can live without these features, but I have had problems running backwards compatibility. At the very least, you have to respond to a dialog saying something like "do you want to convert to the current (last) format?"

Sure you can. Just build one yourself and you can put whatever you want on it. I think a lot of system builders are still offering Windows XP, and it's certainly still available for purchase.

Really? XP death for OEMs was June 30. Check my timing (later this year, early next year). I don't know if XP will even be available in the box by then, and I don't think I want to go to Ebay...

For the record, I have worked with many OSs over the years, and have even done some systems programming on a couple, but as a computer owner (and no-longer IT worker), XP is my clear favourite.
 
but I have had problems running backwards compatibility. At the very least, you have to respond to a dialog saying something like "do you want to convert to the current (last) format?"

Oh, I getcha. I haven't run into that problem except with stupid Office 2007 native files.

Really? XP death for OEMs was June 30. Check my timing (later this year, early next year). I don't know if XP will even be available in the box by then, and I don't think I want to go to Ebay...

Yeah, I saw. I would think you could pick up a copy somewhere like Newegg.com. I don't think they'll run out that quickly.

For the record, I have worked with many OSs over the years, and have even done some systems programming on a couple, but as a computer owner (and no-longer IT worker), XP is my clear favourite.

XP is pretty good, yeah. Vista could be too, and is getting there with the first SP.
 
So? If they developed for a Linux machine they would force you to use Linux (presuming you didn't already) in order to use their software.
My beef is with the perpetual cycle of Microsoft being monopolist, therefore developers only delivering products for MS Windows, and thus strengthening the monopoly.

With libraries like Direct3D, Microsoft encourages developers to technically only target the MS Windows platform. I admit it's also partly laziness on part of the developers, or their marketing department. I once worked for a compiler company which delivered their products on MS Windows, Solaris and HP-UX. They didn't sell them on Linux, though nearly all developers used Linux as development platform. Products like Firefox and OpenOffice show also that it's technically feasible to make a cross-platform product if you want to.

The other alternative is that you simply do without. You have no special right to play those games, and they have no obligation to provide them.
No. But when I started as a freelancer ten years ago, I had to buy an accounting package - and there were none available for Linux at the time (at least no Dutch ones, and with different accounting practices across the pond, I wouldn't trust a US one to be usable). So I had to keeep up a dual-boot Windows installation just for doing my accounting.

How is the ability of users to set up machines to send unsolicited bulk email indicative of insecurity?

Are you talking about zombie networks? Isn't that a slightly different issue than that of spam generally.
I was indeed referring to the zombie networks. They provide a large amount of the spam.

I'm fairly certain that the old versions actually can be read by Word. Certainly the predominant 97-2003 versions of the format can.
But Word95 format certainly can't be read anymore.

Didn't MS provide the format documentation on request prior to releasing it in the open? A lot of freeware teams certainly had support for it for several years.
I can't remember reading about that. wiki says:
Most of this interoperability has been achieved through reverse engineering since, with the exception of RTF, documentation of the Word file formats was not publicly available until February 2008.

Y'know, outside of the world of PC gaming (which is quite a bit more hardware-dependant than general consumer computing), the level of interoperability (especially between the MS systems and the MacOS) seems to be quite a bit higher now than in the past.
Apart from the (non)availability of the games, I don't see much interoperability issues in gaming (having the same format for high score lists?) - but I'm hardly a gamer, so maybe I overlook something.

The existing interoperability between MS systems and other systems is primarily due to the Samba team - filesharing on my Mac is also done my Samba - and they certainly haven't had any help from MS until MS very recently were obliged to disclose the information by the EU for a (somewhat more than) nominal sum.

ddt said:
To conclude my answer to your question: I do not find it offensive that people use Microsoft products, but I do find it offensive that people use proprietary Microsoft formats. I'd outlaw in a whim the use of DOC as a document exchange format for public institutions.
That is just as silly as finding it offensive that people choose to use Microsoft software, especially given the vast number of non-MS applications that can read and write DOC files.
I admit to having become a bit more lax in my own dealings with sending and receiving Office files with the increased quality of support by OpenOffice. But it is not complete. My comment extends to all proprietary formats. Maybe it's better for you to swallow if I rephrase it in the positive:

I'd mandate that the government, both in its internal dealings and its dealings with the public, only use file formats for which open standards exist. That is the best way that every user is ensured that he has access to programs to view/modify/... the files for his favourite platform. If no such program (yet) exists, he can write it himself, or entice/hire a developer to make one. Without publicly available standard, a developer cannot do so without the undue burden of having to reverse engineer the specs of the format.

ETA: The govt. of Massachusetts agrees with this, don't they?
 
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I'd mandate that the government, both in its internal dealings and its dealings with the public, only use file formats for which open standards exist. That is the best way that every user is ensured that he has access to programs to view/modify/... the files for his favourite platform. If no such program (yet) exists, he can write it himself, or entice/hire a developer to make one. Without publicly available standard, a developer cannot do so without the undue burden of having to reverse engineer the specs of the format.

ETA: The govt. of Massachusetts agrees with this, don't they?

The vast majority of government documents I've seen have been in pdf.
 
You claimed MS had done something right. What's right in trying to push an open standard out of the market and replace it with a proprietary one? In my book, that's pure, unadulterated evil. Really the only thing for what that's good is MS's chequebook.

I maintain that D3D drove innovation by exposing programmers to pixel shaders rather than abstracting the display process. They didn't cast a better technology out of the market (btw, there have been and continue to be openGL applications running on Windows). What they did is offer a great standard of their own. Also, it's not proprietary in the strictest sense. Anyone can download the DX SDK and VS express for FREE! You can even download the XNA extensions and develop XBOX games.

P.S. Pure unadulterated evil? That's a bit hyperbolic. It's like Bill Gates stole your lunch money and pushed your face in the sand when you were a kid. Why are you guys so edgy? Maybe it's the constant Linux vs. Windows internetz flamewarz fault. I like that you like Linux. You Linuxites are useful when I need get a web server application up and running. Still, I refuse to feel guilty for using Windows products. I don't care how many times you accuse Bill Gates of being the next Hitler.
 
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What they want is to touch an on switch, click at a word processor icon, type up a proposal, and finally print. That's all... Who provides that "dumb enough for me" service better and cheaper than MS? Really, I'm asking. I haven't looked at Linux OS's for a while. I see that Dell sells an Ubuntu box. Any good?

I'm betting if you sat one computer newbie down at a computer running Windows and another at a computer running Linux, the learning curve and productivity would be very similar.

I didn't pay a cent for my legitimate copy of Ubuntu, and so far it can do everything I used to do in Windows. No $124.30 - $561.61 (tax included) for XP/Vista, and no $202.27 - $789.87 for MS Office. :cool:

I download, install, and run software programs, surf the net, do my banking, email, create and print documents, play streaming music, watch online videos, view and manipulate images, play games, open PDFs, and generally have a great time playing with my FREE operating system. All by clicking on icons in my GUI.

Did I happen to mention that Vista won't even run on my older Pentium III system but Hardy Heron 8.04 runs just fine!

RayG
 
I'm betting if you sat one computer newbie down at a computer running Windows and another at a computer running Linux, the learning curve and productivity would be very similar.

I didn't pay a cent for my legitimate copy of Ubuntu, and so far it can do everything I used to do in Windows. No $124.30 - $561.61 (tax included) for XP/Vista, and no $202.27 - $789.87 for MS Office. :cool:

I download, install, and run software programs, surf the net, do my banking, email, create and print documents, play streaming music, watch online videos, view and manipulate images, play games, open PDFs, and generally have a great time playing with my FREE operating system. All by clicking on icons in my GUI.

Did I happen to mention that Vista won't even run on my older Pentium III system but Hardy Heron 8.04 runs just fine!

RayG

So what's the problem? MS do their thing, you don't like it and so use an alternative that you are totally happy with.
 
So what's the problem? MS do their thing, you don't like it and so use an alternative that you are totally happy with.
Well, PingOfPong said in his opinion, MS provided the best user experience for the average computer user, and challenged to come with better alternatives:
What they want is to touch an on switch, click at a word processor icon, type up a proposal, and finally print. That's all. A DOS window looks as alien to them as the code in the matrix looks to me. They don't care about kernels, threads, API's, CLI's, CLR, shells, or IP stacks. Who provides that "dumb enough for me" service better and cheaper than MS? Really, I'm asking.
(bolding mine).

And RayG answered about the user-friendliness:
I'm betting if you sat one computer newbie down at a computer running Windows and another at a computer running Linux, the learning curve and productivity would be very similar.

I download, install, and run software programs, surf the net, do my banking, email, create and print documents, play streaming music, watch online videos, view and manipulate images, play games, open PDFs, and generally have a great time playing with my FREE operating system. All by clicking on icons in my GUI.

and about the price:
I didn't pay a cent for my legitimate copy of Ubuntu, and so far it can do everything I used to do in Windows. No $124.30 - $561.61 (tax included) for XP/Vista, and no $202.27 - $789.87 for MS Office. :cool:

Personally, I tend to keep out of this kind of debates as my own way of using a computer is too different from that of the average layperson to be able to give some insight into what is "user friendly" - but I do follow them.

Despite (perceived) user-friendliness, many home users do need help from nephews/friends/neighbours in keeping their computer - whether with MS Windows or with Linux - working properly. The "zero administration" computer does not (yet) exist. That's also a factor in MS Windows' popularity - there are more nephews around who know (or think they know) how to administer it.

Normally I don't go down that route, but the few experiences I have with MS Windows installations for family is that it takes hours to get a Windows computer up and running from scratch. First the Windows CD, then the Office CD, then download and install the updates, then download the Sun JRE, Adobe Reader, Flash, etc., and it all has to be done consecutively. By contrast, installation of Linux (my experience is mainly with Fedora) takes about half an hour and you have about everything. The only thing that comes to mind that is not included is a Flash player.
 
My wife has an ASUS EEE PC, which is great. It runs some version of Linux with a custom front end, and it is as close to maintenance free as you could hope to get. It connects up to our wireless network simply and easily, and just... works. It's brilliant, and I can highly recommend them to anyone.

Except... we have an HP Laserjet printer, and the supplied driver doesn't work. I got it working by installing the development tools (make, cc and suchlike) and downloading some source code from the internet and building and installing the driver myself. This would have been totally beyond my wife's capabilities, and the upshot would have been that she'd be unable to print from the laptop.

I had a similar problem with another laptop that I installed Ubuntu on earlier this year, that wouldn't work with an old serial modem. I started down the path of intricate configuration before I finally thought "sod it" and installed XP on it, which worked fine with the modem out-of-the-box.

This is, in my opinion, where Microsoft have really scored - manufacturer support. By and large, even the oldest devices will have drivers that work without any major user intervention. Obviously there are exceptions (that same HP laserjet didn't have a Vista driver when I first installed the OS) but they are relatively few. In years gone by Apple ensured enviable hardware support by severely restricting your choice of hardware - you can have any disk so long as it's SCSI! You can have any printer so long as it uses PostScript! - and people stayed away in relative droves, because they wanted to choose to use any peripheral they wanted. Cheaper ones, preferably.

You could argue that the Linux solution is superior, because if Windows didn't have a driver available for the printer I'd be screwed, whereas with just a few hours of searching and a little technical expertise I could have it up and working. Many Linux users hold this kind of thing up as an example of Linux's superiority because they know enough to overcome the difficulty. Fair enough but it's missing the point, which is that most users aren't that technical and regard it as a severe limitation because they don't want to become that technical.

The average user doesn't make a distinction between the underlying operating system and the way they interact with it. They don't care about kernel optimisations and superior semaphore handling. All that matters is that their stuff works, and that it has a nice user interface so that they can make their stuff work. And that's why Linux will always be a bit-player on the desktop market where the money is, and why Bill Gates is a multi-billionaire.

Postscript: And it ain't just the desktop market. I work for a large company that supplies software to big industrial organisations. In the past we would invariably run on Unix servers. Over the last ten years or so there has been an insidious creep towards Windows servers. We thought it would never catch on, but we kept up and now I'd suggest that more than 90% of our installations are Windows based. The servers are wonderfully reliable and, like the Unix servers of old, give us very few problems. Microsoft did to all intents and purposes shape the modern office, and they're also taking over behind the scenes. They may not have fought fair to get there, but nevertheless it is quite a legacy, by anyone's standards.
 
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MS is like a collaboration between the Borg and the Ferengi. Sadly the Ferengi do the coding and the Borg do the marketing.

Aww, poo - why didn't you wait one more day before writing this? By the time I read it, it was too late to nominate you for a pith award. :(
 
So what's the problem? MS do their thing, you don't like it and so use an alternative that you are totally happy with.

Only answered a question that was posed by PingOfPong, and Ubuntu is only running on one of my five systems.

I'm still running XP on three other systems and Vista on yet another. I purchased my first computer back in 1982 and have used various versions of Windows and DOS over the years. Windows 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, XP, and Vista most recently. XP and 2000 have been the best so far.

I prefer XP to Vista, and when the warranty runs out on the Vista system I will likely install Ubuntu or some other Linux flavor, rather than spend my money on yet another XP CD (especially when I already have three of them). The only reason I even have Vista is that it came pre-installed on a special deal through my ISP. So far I have been unimpressed with Vista and it's the least used computer in the house (even wifey and 11 kids are unimpressed).

Son runs XP on big gaming system and is happy. I run Ubuntu on mine and I'm happy. I was happy with XP before that. I wanted to see how difficult Linux would be. It hasn't been, although I looked at and tried many distros before settling on Ubuntu.

I think it all comes down to what you're familiar with. You use a Mac and like it? I'm not surprised. You use Windows _____ (fill in the blank) and you like it? I'm not surprised. You use Linux and like it? Again, I'm not surprised.

This isn't about popularity, or Linux vs Windows, or Mac vs Windows, etc. etc. it's about facts. The challenge was issued by PingOfPong and I responded with factual information. You assume I'm a Linux fanboy, when I'm not. I wouldn't touch Internet Explorer or Outlook with a 10-foot pole but I still like XP.

RayG
 
But Word95 format certainly can't be read anymore.

No, it doesn't seem it can be natively read.

It could be converted through another program though, or simply opened in Word 95/97/2000/2003 and saved as an RTF.

Apart from the (non)availability of the games, I don't see much interoperability issues in gaming (having the same format for high score lists?) - but I'm hardly a gamer, so maybe I overlook something.

I mean that the games tend to be on the Windows platform, although there seem to be some ways to work around this, at least for the MacOS.

I admit to having become a bit more lax in my own dealings with sending and receiving Office files with the increased quality of support by OpenOffice. But it is not complete. My comment extends to all proprietary formats. Maybe it's better for you to swallow if I rephrase it in the positive:

I'd mandate that the government, both in its internal dealings and its dealings with the public, only use file formats for which open standards exist. That is the best way that every user is ensured that he has access to programs to view/modify/... the files for his favourite platform. If no such program (yet) exists, he can write it himself, or entice/hire a developer to make one. Without publicly available standard, a developer cannot do so without the undue burden of having to reverse engineer the specs of the format.

No, that is just as silly. As long as the documents are freely accessible to the public, I see absolutely no reason why they should mandate dealing with open file formats only.

If this were an issue of a closely-held format that prevented the vast majority of people from seeing the documents, I think you might have a point from a political angle, but it seems to me that you're trying to take your issue with MS and shoehorn in some kind of transparency-of-government angle.

Except that those government documents are easily viewable with a number of freeware programs. Even MS released a freeware document viewer a long time ago. If this were some unknown format that no one could view I would be more inclined to agree there is a transparency issue, but as it stands it just seems like you're protesting against an issue that isn't an issue at all.

What features of the MS formats aren't supported by, say OpenOffice.org, anyway? VBA macros? Crazy formatting crap no one uses?

ETA: The govt. of Massachusetts agrees with this, don't they?

No they don't, apparently.

Oh, since MS did release the DOC specs, does that mean that DOC files are now okay under your criteria for government usage?
 

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