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The Gadhafi speech ....

"In brazen and continuing breach of international law, the crackdown in Libya of peaceful demonstrations is escalating alarmingly with reported mass killings, arbitrary arrests, detention and torture of protesters,"

muhahahaha.

I daresay we are witnessing another marvellous color revolution, but whatever is happening in Libya I am pretty sure it is not just Gandhian type protests marching down the streets of Tripoli being mown down by sub-machine guns.

Oh well, viva la revolution....and I confidently expect a full confession on Lockerbie on day 2 of the new regime.
 
Ah the march of human folly.

From the ABC
A man calling himself a Libyan resident told Al Jazeera television that warplanes and helicopters were bombing areas of Tripoli and there were "many, many dead".

"Every 20 minutes they are bombing," he said.

"Our people are dying. Anyone who moves, even if they are in their car, they will hit you."

A witness also told the BBC that fighter jets were being used against the protesters.

"Fighter jets ... people are going to take people to cemeteries and they started killing them out in the street," he said.

"Then fighter jets are going down, yes. They are firing on people."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/22/3144965.htm

Well, perhaps the ends justifies the means? Who am I to judge. Perhaps the streets of Tripoli are really being strafed by fighter jets?


Carri on.
 
Who said anything about censorship? The free media are free to select whatever footage that pleases their shareholders.
The media outlet I've been watching doesn't have shareholders.

Whoever wins a lot of people are going to die and legitimacy never comes from the barrel of the gun.
A lesson for the outgoing regime, perhaps. Free and fair elections during the last 40 years might have forestalled the present violence, don't you think?

There was no attempt to try mass peaceful protest but instead of leap was made straight for arms.
And you know this because?

Just because of you are afraid about Lockerbie does not give you the right to provoke civil war in Libya and create many more deaths.

I don't follow whatever it is you think I am afraid of. Nevertheless, I accept that I have no right to provoke civil war in other people's countries, so I shall carefully avoid doing so as best I can.

More seriously, do you have any credible evidence that the present violence in Libya was provoked by anyone other than Libyans?
 
"In brazen and continuing breach of international law, the crackdown in Libya of peaceful demonstrations is escalating alarmingly with reported mass killings, arbitrary arrests, detention and torture of protesters,"

muhahahaha.

We're happy you're amused.

A lesson for the outgoing regime, perhaps. Free and fair elections during the last 40 years might have forestalled the present violence, don't you think?

Yeah. Notice to dictators: if you can't go like Kim Il Sung, you might want to try going out like Pinochet. As far as despicable dictator bastards go, it turns out he was actually pretty decent.
 
"In brazen and continuing breach of international law, the crackdown in Libya of peaceful demonstrations is escalating alarmingly with reported mass killings, arbitrary arrests, detention and torture of protesters,"

muhahahaha.

:wwt

Do you seriously think that mass murder of protestors is acceptable? :wwt
 
Is the whole point of this exercise to remove the one regime in the world that is loath to slaughter its own civilians and is aware of the propensity of Western governments to gleefully engage in such practices? Then I suspect the answer to #1 is Gaddafi probably still represents the best option for the Libyan people just at the moment. Its a grim world we live in when Gaddafi is a more honest leader than Obama, Blair or Bush, but so it is.

Wha?????

Are you just trolling or are you really that far over the edge?
 
arm2.jpg


Seriously, that is a masterpiece.
 
[qimg]http://everseradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/arm2.jpg[/qimg]

Seriously, that is a masterpiece.

Yeah, Libya so came out on top in it's actions against the US Military. Between this and your defense of Dear Leader in North Korea, I have got to assume you will stand up for any dictator who has a history of hostility to the US.
 
Is this the key to understanding the "peaceful uprising" in Libya?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12585174

Soon after the revolution of 1969, in which he took part, Gen Younis started to form Libya's special forces. He became interior minister three years ago, as one of Col Gaddafi closest associates and supporters.

His control over the special forces and his key ministry make him one of the most powerful men in Libya. Now, it seems, he wants to play a part in some future government here.

Thats a big fish with a lot of ability to set up patronage networks in the armed forces. That and the Justice Minister saying he heard Gaddafi order Lockerbie looks very much like squabbling in the upper echelon than an Egypt, Tunisian or Iranian popular movement.

There has been a very different feel to what has happened in Libya, to what happened in Tunisia and Egypt. It seems predominantly based in one region and quickly involved the flourishing of weapons.
 
Good for them. The sooner Ghadaffi goes, the better.
Your support for dictators like Kim Il Sung and Ghadaffi is so hearwarming.

Where the hell did the left lose these people as far as foreign policy? I'm a pro-civil rights, general welfare, socialist type, and the idea that "my side" says I'm supposed to root for murderous oppressive dictators who go against everything we'd otherwise stand for, just because they're anti-west, frustrates the bejeezus out of me.

It makes me want to go "HELLLO! Guys! We're the one's pushing for civil liberties and anti-authoritarian government. Did you get mixed up somehow?"
 
Where the hell did the left lose these people as far as foreign policy? I'm a pro-civil rights, general welfare, socialist type, and the idea that "my side" says I'm supposed to root for murderous oppressive dictators who go against everything we'd otherwise stand for, just because they're anti-west, frustrates the bejeezus out of me.

It makes me want to go "HELLLO! Guys! We're the one's pushing for civil liberties and anti-authoritarian government. Did you get mixed up somehow?"

I think it's involved as seeing yourself as some kind of daring,edgy, Anti Establishment Rebel.
 
Where the hell did the left lose these people as far as foreign policy? I'm a pro-civil rights, general welfare, socialist type, and the idea that "my side" says I'm supposed to root for murderous oppressive dictators who go against everything we'd otherwise stand for, just because they're anti-west, frustrates the bejeezus out of me.

It makes me want to go "HELLLO! Guys! We're the one's pushing for civil liberties and anti-authoritarian government. Did you get mixed up somehow?"

I think you are getting delusions of relevance here. Do the events in Libya depend on everybody shutting their eyes and saying "this is a peaceful democratic uprising"? No, the events in Libya will take their course depending on the actions of the various factions and power blocks there. So we are free to accurately describe events as far as we are able without fear that this will have repercussions on the unfolding of events.

What I see is a split in the ruling elite with the Interior Minister leveraging his control over the special forces to gain control in the western half of the country and being joined by other members of the government including an ambassador to the UN and the Justice Minister and most likely others including regional chiefs. At the moment it seems Gaddafi remains in control in Tripoli and the eastern and interior regions - but this could change very very fast. If it stays balanced like this, Libya is in for a very difficult time to resolve it.

Might a regime set up by the Interior Minister be better than Gadaffi? Yes! Might it be worse? Yes! Might it be pretty much the same for most people? Most likely.

If the country stays split and no one reaches for compromise then the "civil rights" will just be code word for lots of corpses to change power. I mean, I am all in favor of civil rights and would like this excellent concept extended to Australia also, but that doesn't mean I am in favor of people with rpgs parading up and down Sydney and Melbourne.

Civil Rights don't grow out of the pointy end of an rpg.
 
I think it's involved as seeing yourself as some kind of daring,edgy, Anti Establishment Rebel.

Or being a bright eyed ignorant airhead who wouldn't understand what socialism actually is if you fed the information directly into their brains.

I mean good god people, this psychopath? Yes, there are worse leaders out there today but it's not like he's the sort of person you invite round for tea and cakes and a nice healthy discussion about electoral systems. The man is a raging despot with a massive jones for conspiracy theories! He's not the kind of person anyone sensible should be backing, left or right wing.
 
Good for them. The sooner Ghadaffi goes, the better.
Your support for dictators like Kim Il Sung and Ghadaffi is so hearwarming.

I didn't support Kim Il Sung, Nor do I oppose him, since Korea is not within Americas borders, I don't think it is any of America's business what North Korea does or does not do. I also think the less we meddle with their policies, the less important and less of a threat they become. I just said Americans and the west have been spoon-fed propaganda that tells them Kim Jung Il is "crazy". I also said it was a common tactic of western propaganda to call leaders they don't like "crazy"
I then said, that Kim Jung Il is not crazy. And I do not believe he is.

I also said firing shells from south Kora into N Korean waters is a provocation, as is doing joint military drills with the US fleet in the area.

I also asked if people knew anything about Lee Myung-bak, and his policies.

But you know what? This isn't a thread about North Korea.

And most of my posts are cultural critiques of all the crap people eat up because they are so used to believing whatever the bimbo with the hot legs on the tv nooze entertainment programming says. I mean, already, we have a good percentage of the American populace that thinks Chavez is a bloody dictator, when there is no proof at all Chavez has ever had any political dissidents killed. Ever. Nor is their any evidence he was not popularly elected. And yet, in America, it is pretty much "common knowledge" he is a "socialist dictator".

So the happy drones like to demonize beyond reality whoever they are told to demonize. You cheer on whatever CIA coup the pretty face on tv tells you to cheer, and worry about every protest the pretty faces on tv tell you to worry about. Your two minutes of hate are up, and it's back to entertainment.
Of course this will get moved to AAH because it is "off topic". Because it is just about impossible to even explain how warped American and western perception is until a deep look at both cultures can be understood.

I think it's involved as seeing yourself as some kind of daring,edgy, Anti Establishment Rebel.

I just hate injustice, hypocrisy, and greed. I am not trying to impress anyone. I am not trying to get laid on the JREF forums, okay? :rolleyes: but JREF is full of some of the biggest nationalist sycophants I have ever seen. I hypothesize it is because many of the intelligent people have obtained a comfortable life for themselves, and anything that challenges that life disturbs them. Which is unfortunate, because it is also full of many intelligent people, so it is sad to see that the same percentage of the intelligent are as easily swayed by M.I.C. propaganda (marketing, some of you call it) as the average six pack drinking reality tv watchin' joe. What is just as amazing, is some of those average, six pack drinking reality tv watchin' joes, are somehow impervious to the tactics, and see through the bull's backside. same with atheists vs. christians. Some atheists are militant nationalists, even though they would deny it, while some Christians are quite aware of the misery America exacts upon the world.

But you know what? Your little worlds are starting to crumble. U.S. hegemony is starting to show severe stress cracks.
 
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I mean good god people, this psychopath? Yes, there are worse leaders out there today but it's not like he's the sort of person you invite round for tea and cakes and a nice healthy discussion about electoral systems. The man is a raging despot with a massive jones for conspiracy theories! He's not the kind of person anyone sensible should be backing, left or right wing.


Yeah, but did anybody tell Tony Blair when he was practically snogging the guy in 2007? Maybe he didn't get the memo? :nope:

Rolfe.
 
So the happy drones like to demonize beyond reality whoever they are told to demonize. You cheer on whatever CIA coup the pretty face on tv tells you to cheer, and worry about every protest the pretty faces on tv tell you to worry about. Your two minutes of hate are up, and it's back to entertainment.

I'm not American and I think you're an idiot. Does that help?

Gadhafi is a raging psychopath. He's an unpleasant dictator who took power and imposed his will on the people. He's not a nice man and his rule isn't a fair or pleasant one. I'm not some

Of course this will get moved to AAH because it is "off topic". Because it is just about impossible to even explain how warped American and western perception is until a deep look at both cultures can be understood.
US perception can indeed be warped as hell. I often find that US news is a disturbing blend of information and entertainment, take Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Keith Olbermann for examples. I know they aren't straight up news shows but they're presented as news based factual programming as far as I can tell.

That doesn't mean that brutal dictators who supress the people of their nations are just given a bad press though. Guess what? I studied crap like this at university and we used direct sources and academic texts to look at people like him and they came out as pretty much agreeing that they are monsters. Pinochet, Ghadaffi, Kim Jong Il, Stalin...all beaten upon in the US/Western press and all still vicious dictators.

I just hate injustice, hypocrisy, and greed.
Yet you support Ghadaffi? Holy logical disconnect Batman!


I am not trying to impress anyone. I am not trying to get laid on the JREF forums, okay? :rolleyes:

We know. You're just an idiot who thinks he knows everything because he's seen through the MSM's lie machine. :rolleyes:

Kooks like you are, to borrow an Americanism, a dime a dozen. You aren't special, you aren't educated, you're just an idiot.

Let me put it this way. You say the MSM in the US is corrupt and badly flawed. I completely agree with you. I think it's a terrible source of news most of the time. That doesn't mean that everything or even most of what they say is wrong, it just means they spin factual stories or present them in a bad way. Anyone who tells you that the US is imperialistic is an idiot. I come from a genuinely imperialistic country (in the past) and while I have no love for the creeping spread of American influence, it's only imperialist if you desperately imagine it is.

I'm also no fan of the Iraq war, I think the whole "War on Terror" thing is a sick joke and I dislike a lot of American policy, both foreign and domestic. I still think that Ghaddafi is a lunatic.

but JREF is full of some of the biggest nationalist sycophants I have ever seen.
Anyone who disagrees with you right? :rolleyes:


I hypothesize it is because many of the intelligent people have obtained a comfortable life for themselves, and anything that challenges that life disturbs them.
Wow are you ever a poor sociologist. Dissent in the US isn't punnishable and dissent against US policy is often criticised here. Even the most conservative posters disagree with conservative news or policy some times, and even the most liberal posters disagree with liberal policy or people sometimes. It's called "discussion". You can have a discussion on whether the latest war is right, or what we should do about terrorism, but what you can't have a sensible discussion about is something as plainly obvious as whether Ghadaffi has his head screwed on right. No one that I can see is advocating US expansionism into Libya, or Tunisia, or Egypt or any of the other countries whose tyrannical leaders caused the country to go into meltdown, wo why bring up "US hegemony" here?

Democracy is a good thing. It enables the will of the actual people to be heard and while it's certainly flawed and susceptible to us and them style lunacy (as you can find in the US at any election) it's STILL better than having a despot control the state. I would take the pathetic bickering of the US parties over Colonel Psychopath any day of the week.


Which is unfortunate, because it is also full of many intelligent people, so it is sad to see that the same percentage of the intelligent are as easily swayed by M.I.C. propaganda (marketing, some of you call it) as the average six pack drinking reality tv watchin' joe.

Well that isn't me. I hate marketing, I hate PR and I'm no fan of corporations. In fact, I really ******* hate them. I hate corporations, I think the dominance of the economy by a handful is shameful and I espouse Socialism, and I still think you need to take your head out of your ass, hang the tin-foil hat up on a hook and join us in the real world.

Not everyone who disagrees with you do so because they're corporate slaves who love McDonalds and Disney and want the US to span the globe. Your paranoia is showing, by the way.


What is just as amazing, is some of those average, six pack drinking reality tv watchin' joes, are somehow impervious to the tactics, and see through the bull's backside. same with atheists vs. christians. Some atheists are militant nationalists,
:rolleyes: Good grief Charlie Brown. Standing up and saying "Hey, America is pretty damn good" isn't being a militant nationalist. I don't want to live in the USA. I really don't. I'm happy with my healthcare, my lack of rabid religious zealots and my comfortable life on this small island nation, but I still disagree with you. Why do you think that is?


even though they would deny it,
Mainly because it's not true. You don't get to redefine English to suit you, you know.


while some Christians are quite aware of the misery America exacts upon the world.
Ok, I'm jut going to come right out and say it. You're a tool.

The US has screwed the pooch over and over and over again with it's foreign policy. It's provided ample fodder for the Anti-Western lunatics in the Middle East and it isn't by far the best nation on earth no matter what some people keep saying, but explain to me, exactly, what misery the US has spread?

This should be a laugh.

But you know what? Your little worlds are starting to crumble. U.S. hegemony is starting to show severe stress cracks.
You tell those shills! One day we'll be living under the gloriously fair and just system of....something, as espoused by the great leader....someone. :boggled:
 

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