The failure to effectively defeat the BNP

[Alt+F4]

Um, the reason why the BNP has won anything in Britain is because of first past the post districts, the same as the US has. The UK doesn't have proportional representation, though the EU and most other parliamentary democracies do.

What does "first past the post districts" mean? Thanks in advance.

 

[Marduk]

What does "first past the post districts" mean? Thanks in advance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality_voting_system#First_past_the_post

 

[funk de fino]

Um, the reason why the BNP has won anything in Britain is because of first past the post districts, the same as the US has. The UK doesn't have proportional representation, though the EU and most other parliamentary democracies do.

The Scots govt has PR as well as FPTP.

 

[funk de fino]

Shutting up the BNP is not the way. Goading them into dropping themselves in the mire again is the only way. Give them airtime and let them spread their filth just make sure that it is counterbalanced and their lies and distortions pointed out. They will eventually revert to type.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

The Scots govt has PR as well as FPTP.

Yeah, but that's a special case. 'Sides, I didn't think they were planning on getting into Scottish Parliament until 2011 or 2015

 

[funk de fino]

Yeah, but that's a special case. 'Sides, I didn't think they were planning on getting into Scottish Parliament until 2011 or 2015

Their support up here is not even half what it is in England. They will get nowt.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

As years progress, I'm struck by how the current orthodoxy on how to deal with the BNP gets progressively worse. All the organisations that have got airtime, from 'No Platform for Fascists' to 'Unite Against Fascism' to 'Love Music Hate Racism' have just, in my view, been catastrophically useless to contain and fight the BNP's growing support.

Despite it being called Unite Against Fascism, it's an organisation remarkably opposed to free speech (as long as it is speech they approve of), allowing the BNP to harp about like the martyrs of free speech.

It seems no reporters have any idea on how to deal with Griffin's past Holocaust denial, and simply allow him to successfully worm his way out of it. What they fail to understand is that Holocaust deniers make 'The Holocaust' a very ambigious word, allowing for 'The Holocaust' to mean 'many Jews dying' whilst still denying the mass-genocide in gass chambers. It's what Griffin does now. A reporter brings up a quote of him saying 'The Holocaust is a lie', and he responds with 'there is no doubt many Jews died'. They never ask him outright if he believes in the gassing of Jews, something he has denied in the past.

It's not just an inability to tackle his past, but an inability to make him stumble on his main talking points. He says he is for a prosperous Britain, but he is never asked how the UK would cope if the migration of doctors from Africa to the NHS was ceased. Could he guarantee that there are skilled Britons to fill the places? If there isn't, what would he do to train them up in a short time period?

It's a tragedy that 50 years ago the weapon against racism was 'I have a dream', and now it has been reduced to an egg aimed at Nick Griffin's head.

The BNP have generally obtained support in areas where the people perceive that the government has failed to look after them. This frustration is fostered by the right wing comics such as the Daily Mail which fail to tell the whole truth about the fact that immigrants do not receive preferential treatment in housing and jobs. The comics also deliberately conflate immigrants with illegal immigrants.

The answer to the BNP is the truth and allowing them to take part in debates where they are deeply questioned about their core beliefs. Unfortunately our politicians are largely perceived to have little to no connection with the truth so we need respected individuals to tell the truth. Individuals such as sportsmen like Ricky Hatton. Unfortunately Ricky would probably not do well in a debate with Griffin and we just don't have any Martin Luther characters in UK politics. Someone like Stephen Hawking would be ideal.

As well as putting right thinking people off their offensively racist creed, getting the truth from Griffin will unfortunately tend to increase support for the BNP amongst those people who are naturally racist - such as those who didn't recognise Alf Garnett as satire and took Alf as a role model, rather than an object of revulsion.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

Unless they come up with in a party. Of course this would mean that you think Rush is not a raving nutter.

 

[richardm]

The BNP are unlikely to get any seat in Parliament, given that it works on FPTP.

I seriously wouldn't count on that.

I'm really surprised about the vocal new movement of the far-right in the country, including this English Defence League that has cropped up.

This is a bit of a worrying development, I think. Getting football hooligans onside is a good tactic.

 

[richardm]

Give them airtime and let them spread their filth just make sure that it is counterbalanced and their lies and distortions pointed out. They will eventually revert to type.

The problem with this is that it doesn't always work, does it? I'm not sure what the alternative is, or even if there is one unfortunately.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The problem with this is that it doesn't always work, does it? I'm not sure what the alternative is, or even if there is one unfortunately.

I don't think there is one that is not worse than letting a low level of this kind of belief exist.

 

[richardm]

I don't think there is one that is not worse than letting a low level of this kind of belief exist.

But when does low level become high level, and what do you do about it then?