The failure to effectively defeat the BNP

[Undesired Walrus]

As years progress, I'm struck by how the current orthodoxy on how to deal with the BNP gets progressively worse. All the organisations that have got airtime, from 'No Platform for Fascists' to 'Unite Against Fascism' to 'Love Music Hate Racism' have just, in my view, been catastrophically useless to contain and fight the BNP's growing support.

Despite it being called Unite Against Fascism, it's an organisation remarkably opposed to free speech (as long as it is speech they approve of), allowing the BNP to harp about like the martyrs of free speech.

It seems no reporters have any idea on how to deal with Griffin's past Holocaust denial, and simply allow him to successfully worm his way out of it. What they fail to understand is that Holocaust deniers make 'The Holocaust' a very ambigious word, allowing for 'The Holocaust' to mean 'many Jews dying' whilst still denying the mass-genocide in gass chambers. It's what Griffin does now. A reporter brings up a quote of him saying 'The Holocaust is a lie', and he responds with 'there is no doubt many Jews died'. They never ask him outright if he believes in the gassing of Jews, something he has denied in the past.

It's not just an inability to tackle his past, but an inability to make him stumble on his main talking points. He says he is for a prosperous Britain, but he is never asked how the UK would cope if the migration of doctors from Africa to the NHS was ceased. Could he guarantee that there are skilled Britons to fill the places? If there isn't, what would he do to train them up in a short time period?

It's a tragedy that 50 years ago the weapon against racism was 'I have a dream', and now it has been reduced to an egg aimed at Nick Griffin's head.

 

[WildCat]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

The BNP are unlikely to get any seat in Parliament, given that it works on FPTP. Unfortunately the EU elections work on PR.

 

[Marduk]

As long as the government is seen to unfairly supporting immigration over the rights of nationals the backlash will always be to the BNP's favour. Thats how they got a seat in Tower Hamlets in 1993
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/17/newsid_2520000/2520085.stm

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

Um, the reason why the BNP has won anything in Britain is because of first past the post districts, the same as the US has. The UK doesn't have proportional representation, though the EU and most other parliamentary democracies do.

 

[Highly Selassie]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

Instead, we get career politicians and demagogues who parrot the raving nutters in their constituency just to stay elected. I can't decide if I'd rather have real, certifiable nutters instead of ones who just sound like it.

 

[Darat]

As long as the government is seen to unfairly supporting immigration over the rights of nationals the backlash will always be to the BNP's favour. Thats how they got a seat in Tower Hamlets in 1993
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/17/newsid_2520000/2520085.stm

That should be

"As long as there is a perception that the government is seen to....."

There is no evidence to support that "immigrants" are supported to the determinant of "nationals".

ETA: For example, an often mouthed rant is that "they" get houses over "us Brits", but that isn't true: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8137408.stm

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

 

[WildCat]

Instead, we get career politicians and demagogues who parrot the raving nutters in their constituency just to stay elected. I can't decide if I'd rather have real, certifiable nutters instead of ones who just sound like it.

Hey, I ain't bragging about our system.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm really surprised about the vocal new movement of the far-right in the country, including this English Defence League that has cropped up. I thought David Copeland was the last of this attitude.

If only they realised how similar they were to the Islamists they protest against..

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Hey, I ain't bragging about our system.

Sorry. I thought you were.

 

[KarlG]

Blame the parliamentary system, where any lunatic fringe group gets official representation (and thus legitimacy) so long as they meet a very minimum threshold of votes.

We may only have 2 parties worth mentioning, but the US system works well in keeping the raving nutters out of any real power.

Erm, didn't your last president take orders from god??

 

[geni]

It's quite posible that there isn't an effective method to kill off the BNP at this point.

Challangeing them as raceists doesn't really work since Nick Griffin is smart enough to hide that side of the party.

Going through their claims and de-bunking them is unlikely to be effective because their supporters and potential are unlikely to pay attention to you for that long. In any case you hit the problem that you would be de-bunking the stuff the likes of the sun and the mail have been telling them for years.

 

[WildCat]

Erm, didn't your last president take orders from god??

Haven't they all?

 

[lionking]

The BNP are unlikely to get any seat in Parliament, given that it works on FPTP. Unfortunately the EU elections work on PR.

FPTH can still get loonies up if there are enough candidates to dilute votes to mainstream parties. This can't really happen with Australia's preferential system of voting.

 

[AgeGap]

Very few of my colleagues voted in the last election citing that all the parties were the same. A lot of people are disillusioned with politicians and don’t vote. Extremists are going to vote and this is why they had a good showing. The BNP also seem to have their act sorted. Their website is a lot better now than last year. The only comments on it now are in praise of the BNP. It used to be really good as the anti-nazis used to have free reign.

 

[Marduk]

That should be

"As long as there is a perception that the government is seen to....."

There is no evidence to support that "immigrants" are supported to the determinant of "nationals".

ETA: For example, an often mouthed rant is that "they" get houses over "us Brits", but that isn't true: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8137408.stm

its not about perception, its about numbers
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_11_21/uk/2-year_immigration_statistics.htm

According to official UK government estimates, approximately 1,500 migrants arrived to live in the UK every day during 2005.

thats around 547,500

from your link

Just 11% of new arrivals get help with housing - almost all of them asylum seekers.

thats 60,225 new arrivals being helped with social housing in 2005, from the perspective of british people who have lived here all their lives thats 60,225 houses not being given to people who have contributed to that social system and so see themselves as more deserving, right or wrong its that "perception" that allows the BNP to gain ground because they are experts at playing on it. Its all theyve got really. I lived and worked in Tower Hamlets when the BNP got a council seat, the above is exactly how they got votes, that along with the intimidation campaign they rolled out to stop immigrants from voting ensured the scales tipped in their favour.

 

[Cleon]

Haven't they all?

Nah. Andrew Jackson took orders from the voices in his head.

 

[Duncanthrax]

Eh, I'm a little unclear about what you mean by "defeat the BNP". Certainly you don't mean that there's currently a BNP majority in parliament; as far as I know, they don't have a single seat. For that matter, do they even have a local elected official anywhere?

If by "defeat" you mean that the party shouldn't exist, you should accept that there will always be some political loonies around.

 

[geni]

Eh, I'm a little unclear about what you mean by "defeat the BNP". Certainly you don't mean that there's currently a BNP majority in parliament; as far as I know, they don't have a single seat. For that matter, do they even have a local elected official anywhere?

In the EU and various local councillors

If by "defeat" you mean that the party shouldn't exist, you should accept that there will always be some political loonies around.

Low level support for right wing parties such as say the national front has been around for quite a while but not at the levels of support the BNP is getting.