The Experiment on 100 Professed Atheists

[UnrepentantSinner]

Sorry, but I don't see how that shows a distinction between belief and knowledge. Without any information, no knowledge is possible. If the strong atheist says he knows, he's lying.

I think a question more appropriate to the religious debate would be: Is Randi on his knees praying to God for communism to make a comeback right now? Given what we know about Randi, we can pretty much state as fact that he isn't, even though we aren't with him.

You're trying to eliminate specific claims about specifiec dieties. I'm saying I don't believe any exist*, even those we might not have a concept of or holy books written about.

*Of course with my caveat that there could be a demiurge or a deity simply uninterested in the lives of humans.

 

[Cardelitre]

Though I would state that educating Christians as to why such a study wouldn't be reliable would also be useful.

It would certainly be yes. But in my experience, making some of them understand (or even simply listen to) why this wouldn't work is, well, unlikely to happen. Especially if you seem to concede in the first place that their claim is real…

Sure.

Damn, I didn't remember that... My sincere apologies, I must have been still drunk from New Years Eve party...

 

[mayday]

Mayday's post I quoted here about raising the bar and no amount of evidence would ever be enough is consistent with her lack of skepticism. This is a standard woo tactic we've all seen numerous times before. Mayday, you have put NO EVIDENCE forth. So how can you make the claim no amount of evidence would be sufficient? It's ludicrous.

However, in this case, I wish you did have evidence. Because it would be helpful in discussion #2, if there were such polygraph results out there, would the results mean anything anyway?

I never said there was any evidence. I wanted to know if anyone else had heard this claim.

 

[NeilC]

I think lots of people have heard about something a bit like it since it has been quoted by at least one unreliable source. However there is no evidence it ever happened and no evidence that if it had happened that it would have produced a useful result.

So in essence we can assume it really doesn't matter.

It seems more likely that it's just something a religious person made up to put some flesh on a pet theory they had.

 

[Tricky]

I never said there was any evidence. I wanted to know if anyone else had heard this claim.

I doubt that anyone had heard about this specific claim, but we hear stuff like it all the time. I've heard about two dozen versions of the Weight of a Soul story, which is based on a real event, but the real results are badly jumbled, with people claiming that the results showed proof of the existence of souls. So maybe something like this happened, though I find it extremely unlikely that they got 100 atheists to agree to be polygraphed for something as silly as this. It might be possible that the question, "Do you believe in God?" was used during one or more polygraph tests and the subject got a negative response when they said "no". Polygraphs, if anything, measure stress responses, not truth. People under stress will get a negative response if they answer "yes" to the question, "Is the sky blue?"

But with no more references to go on than this anecdote, I think it is unlikely that anyone here will be able to unearth any more about it than just the anecdote repeated. Here's another version of the anecdote repeated.

Here is another in which the claimant admitted he could not verify the research. It appears that this is simply an urban legend.

 

[Dan O.]

Here is another in which the claimant admitted he could not verify the research. It appears that this is simply an urban legend.

I checked the LA Times archives for the date referenced and there was no related article. Maybe they were referring to something written in the personals section or an advertisement inserted in that edition.

I think someone should at least show up at TAM 6 with an E-meter and have 100 attendees answer a few questions while holding the cans. Then the next time this myth comes up we can point to the "study" and show how silly it is.

 

[FramerDave]

I doubt that anyone had heard about this specific claim, but we hear stuff like it all the time. I've heard about two dozen versions of the Weight of a Soul story, which is based on a real event, but the real results are badly jumbled, with people claiming that the results showed proof of the existence of souls. So maybe something like this happened, though I find it extremely unlikely that they got 100 atheists to agree to be polygraphed for something as silly as this. It might be possible that the question, "Do you believe in God?" was used during one or more polygraph tests and the subject got a negative response when they said "no". Polygraphs, if anything, measure stress responses, not truth. People under stress will get a negative response if they answer "yes" to the question, "Is the sky blue?"

But with no more references to go on than this anecdote, I think it is unlikely that anyone here will be able to unearth any more about it than just the anecdote repeated. Here's another version of the anecdote repeated.

Here is another in which the claimant admitted he could not verify the research. It appears that this is simply an urban legend.

I find it interesting, and more than a little hypocritical and dishonest, that fundies demonize science as a force that marginalizes religion, yet go running to science in an effort to bolster their weak claims.

 

[Tumblehome]

You're trying to eliminate specific claims about specifiec dieties. I'm saying I don't believe any exist*, even those we might not have a concept of or holy books written about.

*Of course with my caveat that there could be a demiurge or a deity simply uninterested in the lives of humans.

I'm not eliminating them, I'm separating proclaimed gods from hypothetical powers because they have to be considered separately when debating their existence.

When claims are made of a specific god, we can judge it on the basis of those claims. If it's said the god can walk on water, multiply loaves of bread, turn water into wine, etc., we can aver, not just believe, that it's false.

There aren't any claims, naturally, about an undefined hypothetical god, so we can't say for a fact that one doesn't exist, we can only believe it doesn't (as I believe, too).

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I never said there was any evidence. I wanted to know if anyone else had heard this claim.

You said

My friend I work with whose abusive husband was killed by a truck was talking about her church and I somehow brought up the subject of atheism.
She told me there was a study done on 100 people who claimed to be atheists. They hooked them up to a polygraph machine to see if they honestly believed there was no god and she told me over 80% failed. I didn't ask where she saw this because I was not there to be confrontational.

Does anyone know anything about this experiment?

I realize you said you had no evidence. But you did say your friend claimed "there was a study". Unless we see the study, I assume there was NOT a study.

 

[amb]

I never heard of such a study. Could be a ''creation'' of some christians, or some backwater study group.
Ignore it if it was not scientificaly attested to.

 

[mayday]

I doubt that anyone had heard about this specific claim, but we hear stuff like it all the time. I've heard about two dozen versions of the ........."Do you believe in God?" was used during one or more polygraph tests and the subject got a negative response when they said "no". Polygraphs, if anything, measure stress responses, not truth. People under stress will get a negative response if they answer "yes" to the question, "Is the sky blue?".....But with no more references to go on than this anecdote, I think.......

that we're thinking too heavy. Let's lighten things up a little.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_jlF-sRqk

 

[chillzero]

Keep it on topic, mayday.

 

[Beerina]

There aren't any claims, naturally, about an undefined hypothetical god, so we can't say for a fact that one doesn't exist, we can only believe it doesn't (as I believe, too).

There are infinite things we can believe don't exist. These are much more solid than any religious person's belief.

It reminds me of that scene in Star Trek: Save the Whales:

                                           SPOCK
                             Mr. Scott cannot give me exact
                             figures, Admiral. So I will...
                                     (a beat)
                             Make a guess.

                                           KIRK
                             You?  
                                   (laughs)
                             Spock, that's extraordinary.

                                           SPOCK
                             ... I don't think he understands...

                                           BONES
                             No, Spock. [b]It means he feels safer
                             about your "guesses" than most other
                             peoples facts.[/b]

 

[The Jeff]

Ha!

I'd say 20 percent is an amazing percentile. I want some of that pendulum magic.