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The Empty Tomb

TimCallahan

Philosopher
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
6,293
When, many years ago, I started arguing with a creationist, in a duel of letters in our local newspaper, he asserted that the empty tomb was an irrefutable argument against which non-believers had only lame rebuttals. Using Matthew's resurrection account, he said that the people of the day could only assert that someone had stolen the body of Jesus. However, they really had no way to account for the empty tomb.

Of course, Matthew's account, including what might have been a Jewish argument against the validity of the empty tomb. was probably written ca. CE 80 or later, some 50 years after the Crucifixion and 10 years after the total destruction of Jerusalem. Even mark's sparse account, in which the empty tomb was the only evidence of the Resurrection, was written after the destruction of Jerusalem.

Constantine's mother, Empress Helena, supposedly discovered the empty tomb late in the fourth century. However, before this the Romans had thoroughly flattened Jerusalem in the year 70. They destroyed rebuilt city in 136, at the end of the Bar Kochba revolt and built a new, Roman style city, Aelia Capitolina on its ruins. Thu, the likelihood that the sepulcher had survived all this is nil.

There are a number of possibilities regarding the burial of Jesus:

1) As one convicted of sedition, Jesus was consigned to a mass grave, rather than a first century sepulcher.

2) He was interred in a family sepulcher belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. It was a free standing building and was reduced to rubble in the year 70.

3) He was interred in a family sepulcher belonging to Joseph of Arimathea, which had been dug into a hillside. It was buried in rubble in CE 70 and buried in more rubble in 136.

4) He was interred in the tomb, but his followers stole the body, then gave out that he had been physically resurrected.

5) He was interred in the tomb, but was resurrected.

One thing we can be fairly sure of is that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was not built over the tomb of Jesus. I'm curious to hear from the Christians on this forum what their beliefs are concerning the burial of Jesus and the empty tomb.
 
11) Aliens.
12) necromancers
13) necrophiles
15) ye olde dentists and doctors
16) demonic posession
17) the undead
18) ye olde soylent green
19) ye olde bobs geko meat
 
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he turned into a bunch of crackers and kids all around the world have been eating them with grape juice.
 
20. The authorities removed the body from the tomb and disposed of it so that the disciples couldn't remove it first and then claim Jesus had risen.

The fools slapped themselves when they realized they shouldn't have burned the body but kept it so they could produce when the disciples started going on about the tomb being empty!
 
21) A couple of pranksters stole the body for some Weekend At Bernie's style fun and either lost it or forgot to put it back.
 
10. He wasn't really dead when he was taken down from the cross
He was, but he woke up again and:
11. Mark 16:14-19 - His body rose into the sky while he and his disciples were seated at a table in or near Jerusalem, at an unspecified time
12. Luke 24:50-51 - The above event happened outside, after dinner, and at Bethany and on the same day as the resurrection
13. Acts 1:9-12 - It happened at least 40 days after he woke up, at Mt. Olivet.

Note: the last two accounts were written by the same person! :confused:
 
Constantine's mother, Empress Helena, supposedly discovered the empty tomb late in the fourth century. However, before this the Romans had thoroughly flattened Jerusalem in the year 70. They destroyed rebuilt city in 136, at the end of the Bar Kochba revolt and built a new, Roman style city, Aelia Capitolina on its ruins. Thu, the likelihood that the sepulcher had survived all this is nil.

There are a number of possibilities regarding the burial of Jesus:


3) He was interred in a family sepulcher belonging to Joseph of Arimathea, which had been dug into a hillside. It was buried in rubble in CE 70 and buried in more rubble in 136.


5) He was interred in the tomb, but was resurrected.

One thing we can be fairly sure of is that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was not built over the tomb of Jesus. I'm curious to hear from the Christians on this forum what their beliefs are concerning the burial of Jesus and the empty tomb.



Even the elite knew this happened why would they have gone looking for more proof they already knew what the military had to say about it in the records?
The Roman Empress Helena was told by a man named Judas that hundreds of years of debris covered the area. During the excavation that she ordered, the diggers found parts of three crosses and nails in a cave close to where it was believed Jesus’ tomb was located. They also found a wooden placard that said, “King of the Jews.” This titulus was taken to Rome in A.D. 326. The placard, known as the titulus Christi, is kept in the Basilica di Santa Croce (St. Croix) in Gerusalemme, Rome.
One of the things you’ll say now is that a placard couldn’t last that long, right?
The Report of Pilate the Procurator Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ. Sent to the August Cæsar in Rome.

Here: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0809.htm

And this PDF:
Another version:


Anyone can turn a positive into a negative, or vice versa?
Go with the evidence. The one thing you are doing is denying the evidence at hand and making up your own scenarios. The simplest answer has the evidence and that is, there is a high probability that this really happened as written. A government wouldn’t waste it’s time or resources if there wasn’t a report by the military for instance that these things occurred, let alone send the one of the highest in said government, (Empress Helena ) into a hostile environment on an expedition, you know that, right?
If anyone wasn’t going to lie for Christ it would be Rome…It seems your just wishing that the sepulcher couldn’t survive a burial of rubble, basically a cave in rock? You say:
Thu, the likelihood that the sepulcher had survived all this is nil.
Tell me that is a joke please? So you go with your assumption instead of the evidence at hand.
 
The Report of Pilate the Procurator Concerning Our Lord Jesus Christ. Sent to the August Cæsar in Rome.
You believe this thing is authentic?

ETA
Though the Acta Pilati purports to be a report by Pontius Pilate containing evidence of Jesus Christ's messiahship and godhead, there is no record in early Christian lore of Pilate's conversion to Christianity. It seems unlikely that the work was ever meant to have been taken seriously by Christians; instead, its purpose was to offer further conjectural details about the life of Christ as a pious entertainment, part of a larger body of Pilate literature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Pilate
 
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