The Electric Revolution

[Dabop]

The problem in the US is that Tesla dominates the fast charging market. Their chargers are almost a monopoly. They also almost always works. Which isn't necessarily true with a lot of chargers.

Which is a small market (and well behind 'TROTW' in EV takeup, and thats not likely to change any time soon- not under the trump regime....)
So they (and their 'wants' in regards to charging standards) can effectively be ignored- if they want to do something different- let 'em...
Its not going to make any difference to anyone outside the US...

We'll continue to standardise on CCS2 Combo- if and when that becomes insufficient a different standard will be used- but it wont be the Tesla one thats for sure lol

(thats if Tesla even is still around at that point- looking less and less likely that they will even remain in business (outside the US) at all- the longer musk remains at the helm, the less likely they will be able to recover any sales volume at all....)

BYD is thrashing them in sales these days, and several other former 'minor' EV companies are creeping up on Tesla sales levels (or more to the point, Tesla sales levels are falling to their levels as theirs grow lol)

 

[acbytesla]

Which is a small market (and well behind 'TROTW' in EV takeup, and thats not likely to change any time soon- not under the trump regime....)
So they (and their 'wants' in regards to charging standards) can effectively be ignored- if they want to do something different- let 'em...
Its not going to make any difference to anyone outside the US...

We'll continue to standardise on CCS2 Combo- if and when that becomes insufficient a different standard will be used- but it wont be the Tesla one thats for sure lol

(thats if Tesla even is still around at that point- looking less and less likely that they will even remain in business (outside the US) at all- the longer musk remains at the helm, the less likely they will be able to recover any sales volume at all....)

BYD is thrashing them in sales these days, and several other former 'minor' EV companies are creeping up on Tesla sales levels (or more to the point, Tesla sales levels are falling to their levels as theirs grow lol)

I don't disagree with most of that.

The point from Tesla's perspective is they don't have to re-equipe their vast charging network in North America. And here's the thing. All the other manufacturers in North America want the selling point of their customers being able to use that network. Until a couple of years ago, Tesla's didn't allow other car brands to use them. It will probably take another 5 years minimum before their share of the DC fast chargers drop below 50%.

But North America is not a small market. 500 million people. That's 20 times the population of Australia. It also has a high per capita car ownership.

And at least we have the sense to drive on the right side of the road.

 

[Dabop]

I don't disagree with most of that.

The point from Tesla's perspective is they don't have to re-equipe their vast charging network in North America. And here's the thing. All the other manufacturers in North America want the selling point of their customers being able to use that network. Until a couple of years ago, Tesla's didn't allow other car brands to use them. It will probably take another 5 years minimum before their share of the DC fast chargers drop below 50%.

But North America is not a small market. 500 million people. That's 20 times the population of Australia. It also has a high per capita car ownership.

And at least we have the sense to drive on the right side of the road.

500 million- IF you include Canada and Mexico (which the US has pissed BOTH off majorly) which means the 'US ban on China' may soon disappear for half of those 500 million, and BYD is already thrashing Tesla worldwide- if Mexico and Canada start buying BYD- then Tesla will become a big fish- in a little pond of 250 million... a good proportion of who will 'never be seen in one of them there electrix ve-hicles'.....
Think the boys who 'roll coal' or hang bulls balls from their towbars would EVER be caught in a Cybertruck???


Besides which, musk is old news at the Whitehouse- trumpy doesn't like sharing the spotlight, so musks days of getting anything from him are long gone.....

 

[acbytesla]

Delete

 

[acbytesla]

500 million- IF you include Canada and Mexico (which the US has pissed BOTH off majorly) which means the 'US ban on China' may soon disappear for half of those 500 million, and BYD is already thrashing Tesla worldwide- if Mexico and Canada start buying BYD- then Tesla will become a big fish- in a little pond of 250 million... a good proportion of who will 'never be seen in one of them there electrix ve-hicles'.....
Think the boys who 'roll coal' or hang bulls balls from their towbars would EVER be caught in a Cybertruck???View attachment 65206

View attachment 65207
Besides which, musk is old news at the Whitehouse- trumpy doesn't like sharing the spotlight, so musks days of getting anything from him are long gone.....

That's North America. Mexico, United States and Canada. Essentially, the same electrical standards in all three nations

Tesla vehicles certainly have lost their dominance of EVs. But their dominance in the DC charging market in the US is overwhelming.

As of May 2025, Tesla Superchargers lead with 30,767 ports, followed by Electrify America (4,799), ChargePoint (4,249), EVgo (4,083), and EV Connect (1,668). These five networks represent a significant portion of the total DC fast-charging network in the US.

This gave and gives Tesla a monstrous advantage in the US. In comparison

As of mid-October 2025, Australia has approximately 1,272 fast DC charging sites, with over 800 additional high-powered plugs added. This is a significant increase from previous years, with most sites offering charging speeds of \(75\) kW or higher and up to \(350\) kW.

 

[Dabop]

That's North America. Mexico, United States and Canada. Essentially, the same electrical standards in all three nations

Tesla vehicles certainly have lost their dominance of EVs. But their dominance in the DC charging market in the US is overwhelming.

This gave and gives Tesla a monstrous advantage in the US. In comparison

But given Canada and Mexico are already walking away from the US tradewise, and CCS2 chargers are readily available (in 120, 240 or 400v versions for home use) then that really doesn't amount to much- Tesla will probably limp along in the US for a few more years, but worldwide???- be as relevant as those monster 'trucks' that so many yanks seem to love driving- and can't be found outside the US....

Quite frankly, since the US was stupid enough to put trump in again, its only confirmed what many suspected- its full of bloody morons....

Not ALL- but far too many....

And US 'soft power' is zero- hell an endorsement by a yank is practically a death sentence commercially these days....

 

[acbytesla]

But given Canada and Mexico are already walking away from the US tradewise, and CCS2 chargers are readily available (in 120, 240 or 400v versions for home use) then that really doesn't amount to much- Tesla will probably limp along in the US for a few more years, but worldwide???- be as relevant as those monster 'trucks' that so many yanks seem to love driving- and can't be found outside the US....

Quite frankly, since the US was stupid enough to put trump in again, its only confirmed what many suspected- its full of bloody morons....

Not ALL- but far too many....

And US 'soft power' is zero- hell an endorsement by a yank is practically a death sentence commercially these days....

But they're not here. It makes little sense for Canada or Mexico to go on their own on this particular issue.

Don't get me wrong. I can't stand the Trump government. I particularly hate how they are treating our friends and neighbors. And you also have to keep in mind that half of the North American car manufacturing assembly plants are in Mexico and Canada.

 

[Dabop]

And are those plants in Mexico and Canada going to keep building 'US only' EVs- or are they going to 'maybe' keep one 'legacy' line for the US stuff, and start making CCS2 EVs for export and start exporting their cars worldwide instead- cashing in on the worldwide EV boom (and kicking trump in the nuts (if he has any lol) to boot....
Win/Win...

 

[acbytesla]

And are those plants in Mexico and Canada going to keep building 'US only' EVs- or are they going to 'maybe' keep one 'legacy' line for the US stuff, and start making CCS2 EVs for export and start exporting their cars worldwide instead- cashing in on the worldwide EV boom (and kicking trump in the nuts (if he has any lol) to boot....
Win/Win...

They probably don't export internal combustion or electrical vehicles outside of North America. So,
I really don't think the charging standard in the US makes that much difference.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Rolfe]

Tesla seem to be doing just fine here, and all their cars have been CCS2 equipped for quite some time now. Their charging network is cheap and popular, and all the chargers have both CCS2 and Tesla plugs. The vast majority of drivers seem to have forgotten to care that Musk is a liability.

Honestly, the place is crawling with Teslas. You can practically hold your breath between them.

 

[acbytesla]

Until the last few years, purchasing a non-Tesla vehicle in the US made little sense for most customers. There wasn't a non-fast charging infrastructure for them. A non Tesla model like a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf were fine for people that didn't travel very far. But if you were going to require fast charging, Tesla was your only solution.

This is probably why Dabop's perspective on the charging standards in the US is maybe short sighted. There is the Hyundai Ioniq, BMW, Mercedes, Stellantis, Rivian, Porche, VW, some Japanese brands are options. But BYD, MG, and the other Chinese vehicles are not available here.

I get that people in other countries often view America and Americans in a negative light. Particularly Trump and Musk. Some of it is well deserved. But not all of it.

 

[8enotto]

BYD is trying to be the revolution to electric in Mexico. So whatever standard they hold to should become the standard here slowly.
The US isn't currently looking to Mexico for cars anymore (and Chinese standard EV doesn't pass there) so whatever we make here goes into other markets as possible.

What the future holds depends on if BYD agrees to pay taxes in Mexico long term.
The market is too new to read from the street yet.

 

[Dabop]

Until the last few years, purchasing a non-Tesla vehicle in the US made little sense for most customers. There wasn't a non-fast charging infrastructure for them. A non Tesla model like a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf were fine for people that didn't travel very far. But if you were going to require fast charging, Tesla was your only solution.

This is probably why Dabop's perspective on the charging standards in the US is maybe short sighted. There is the Hyundai Ioniq, BMW, Mercedes, Stellantis, Rivian, Porche, VW, some Japanese brands are options. But BYD, MG, and the other Chinese vehicles are not available here.

I get that people in other countries often view America and Americans in a negative light. Particularly Trump and Musk. Some of it is well deserved. But not all of it.

Remember that your EU made EVs are native CCS2 to begin with, they need to be modified to suit the US market (driving up costs) and in most cases they will restrict the models available as well.... setting up a separate production line 'just for the yanks' for every model just isn't going to be economical....

The US decision to 'go it alone' is the shortsighted one- nothing new there though lol- as I said- it limits the appeal of US made vehicles (meaning lower/nonexistent sales outside the US, murdering your trade balance lol) and limits the availability of imports (BYD made the decision to not even bother with the US market back in 2020- too much bother for such a small market, and with the well known antiChinese sentiments common in the US (from BOTH sides of the political divide) making them simply not even interested in it as a market for their smaller EV's, only bringing in their commercial vehicles.... (they have been selling EV trucks and buses in the US for half a decade now btw- in Jan 2020 this was the 100th heavy truck sold in the US!!!!- so much for Tesla and their semi... they didn't even sell their first one until two years AFTER BYD sold their 100th in the US lol)

https://en.byd.com/news/byd-delivers-100th-battery-electric-truck-in-the-united-states/

Even under Biden, antiChinese xenophobia was rampant in both the government and from the general public- and under trump, he ramped it up to 11.... hundred......

Believe me, when I say we all think the US deserves everything it gets- you lot voted him in, no-one else did....
The first time was excusable- the second time???- not...

 

[acbytesla]

Remember that your EU made EVs are native CCS2 to begin with, they need to be modified to suit the US market (driving up costs) and in most cases they will restrict the models available as well.... setting up a separate production line 'just for the yanks' for every model just isn't going to be economical....

The US decision to 'go it alone' is the shortsighted one- nothing new there though lol- as I said- it limits the appeal of US made vehicles (meaning lower/nonexistent sales outside the US, murdering your trade balance lol) and limits the availability of imports (BYD made the decision to not even bother with the US market back in 2020- too much bother for such a small market, and with the well known antiChinese sentiments common in the US (from BOTH sides of the political divide) making them simply not even interested in it as a market for their smaller EV's, only bringing in their commercial vehicles.... (they have been selling EV trucks and buses in the US for half a decade now btw- in Jan 2020 this was the 100th heavy truck sold in the US!!!!- so much for Tesla and their semi... they didn't even sell their first one until two years AFTER BYD sold their 100th in the US lol)
View attachment 65237
https://en.byd.com/news/byd-delivers-100th-battery-electric-truck-in-the-united-states/

Even under Biden, antiChinese xenophobia was rampant in both the government and from the general public- and under trump, he ramped it up to 11.... hundred......
View attachment 65238
Believe me, when I say we all think the US deserves everything it gets- you lot voted him in, no-one else did....
The first time was excusable- the second time???- not...

I didn't. Either time. I thought Trump was a lying cheat long before he got into politics.

And I'm not anti-Chinese either.

That said, I worked selling Datacom and IT equipment for 30 years. Most, American products designed and created in the US and unfortunately outsourced for manufacturing in China and other Asian countries. My experience was that China stoled all the Intellectual property it could. Companies like Hewlett Packard, Sun, Cisco and others were robbed blind. Within months of a new product or model introduction, counterfeit versions of it would show up on the market.

Now I blame the greed of the American companies as much as I blame China. They wanted it built as inexpensively as possible.

 

[Dabop]

I didn't. Either time. I thought Trump was a lying cheat long before he got into politics.

And I'm not anti-Chinese either.

That said, I worked selling Datacom and IT equipment for 30 years. Most, American products designed and created in the US and unfortunately outsourced for manufacturing in China and other Asian countries. My experience was that China stoled all the Intellectual property it could. Companies like Hewlett Packard, Sun, Cisco and others were robbed blind. Within months of a new product or model introduction, counterfeit versions of it would show up on the market.

Now I blame the greed of the American companies as much as I blame China. They wanted it built as inexpensively as possible.

Funny- the US companies have much the same reputation here for being IP thieves... their usual responce is 'sue us'...

(indeed that actually happened with a company I worked with, after one of our guys visited the US, within a year, exact copies of our kit mysteriously started being sold by a US company....)
The US has been for DECADES involved in IP theft...

A classic case of

 

[acbytesla]

I really don't want to spend time discussing the positives and negatives of my country or China.

Nevertheless, I can absolutely understand why the auto industry embraced the Tesla standard in the US. Because no question, Tesla is the standard here. It's their infrastructure that everyone wants to connect to here. Tesla doesn't have to change a thing. And why should they? They own 80% of the fast DC charging market in North America.

OTOH Tesla’s cars in Europe and Australia use the CCS2 standard. Why? Because they only have a 12% market share of Europe's DC fast chargers and only 10% in Australia.

It's a different ball game there.

 

[Rolfe]

Any idea how Tesla's total sales in the USA compare to their total sales in the rest of the world?

 

[Rolfe]

Interesting post, and indeed the thread that follows is interesting too.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1982863319095517568

 

[acbytesla]

Any idea how Tesla's total sales in the USA compare to their total sales in the rest of the world?

Tesla: Holds the largest market share of EVs sold in Q2 of 2025 in the US, at around 48.5%
Tesla sold more EVs than the next 4 brands combined in the US in August.

Tesla: Accounted for approximately 10.52% of the global EV market in 2024

In 2024, the UK's market share for fully electric vehicles (BEVs) was 19.6%

 

[acbytesla]

As I said earlier Tesla dominates the charging market in the US. This year, they installed more chargers in the US than the 9 top competitors combined. They can simply say to other EV manufacturers, if you want to charge at our stations, you must use our standards.