The Electric Comet theory

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Are you able to enlighten me on the
Other materials found while studying the impact included clays, carbonates, sodium, and crystalline silicates which were found by studying the spectroscopy of the impact.[15] Clays and carbonates usually require liquid water to form and sodium is rare in space

Clays???

Carbonates???

Sodium???

crystalline silicates which were found by studying the spectroscopy of the impact, sound a LOT like rock!


Oh and no ICE just implied subsurface ice from the water production in the coma and tail.
 
That is a delusion abut rock being found on Tempel 1, Sol88.
The Deep Impact projectile went into "talcum powder" not rock.
The ejecta from Deep Impact was dust and ice.
The outgassing from Deep Impact included water and dust.

Interestingly, there is a whole book written about the deep impact mission: C.T. Russell - "Deep Impact Mission: Looking beneath the surface of a cometary nucleus", and if you have a bit of google-fu you might even find the pdf of this book. That describes all the different experiments.



There is a long list of papers, even in 2014 there were still papers written on Deep Impact.

I guess this paper by Gicquel et al., 2012 (freely available) talks readily about the large amount of ice released by the impact.
 
And then we get back to that old chestnut on H2O production.

No doubt we saw OH in the tail and coma but we saw no ice, except for the trivial amount on the surface as reported.

So they believed it to be hidden just under the rind of dust but still found none!

And yet it is clear from various instruments on Rosetta that all kinds of water is present around the comet.
 
Plenty more here

Every one including NON ELECTRIC UNIVERSE nuts are asking the same question, why?

So why hold the pictures back even from the AGU conference???

The public are not going to write a peer reviewed paper and get the credit for the discovery but the ESA are going to look like complete knobs when everything they designed the mission for is contradicted by the data coming in.

That's my conspiracy take on the lock down on OSIRIS images!

You do know that you are beating an almost 6 months dead dog here?
 
Well we can see inside the nucleus where the cliffs have been exposed on 67P, no ice visible BUT we have jets!!

NO ICE needed, Tusenfem.

I thought you'd would have understood that by now. The ECH does not need ICE to cause the observed jets, that by the way issue from bright spots that the mainstream keep calling ICE but none seen...

As soon as you can show me an actual EC fantasy calculation of the EDM creating the the jets, maybe then I will pay attention to your delusions again.
 
As soon as you can show me an actual EC fantasy calculation of the EDM creating the the jets, maybe then I will pay attention to your delusions again.


Again Tusenfem just one OSIRIS image of the jets and I'm happy and by the sounds of it a lot of other people.

I really do feel for Holger Sierks, he must have a lot of pressure on him from a lot of different sources, including the Rosetta and Philea science teams.

Dave Harvey says:
19/07/2014 at 16:09
There is however one other downside of the current “hide everything” policy which is especially important for time-limited missions such as this. What if someone (professional scientist or not), outside the official team were to spot something interesting in the data, which had been missed by the core privileged group – something which required further investigation, perhaps from orbit? That might be something which would provide a great step forward for planetary science, but of course that couldn’t happen, as the person who spots it would only see it 6 months after the data was acquired, by which time it would be too late to make the necessary follow-up observations :-( Were this to happen (and I consider it quite plausible, even it not actually likely), then could ESA really justify having sacrificed the possible science just to satisfy the egos and selfishness of those spending money on our behalf?
For this reason, perhaps it is not ONLY the "pretty pictures" that should be released - I would argue that ALL the data generated through public money should be treated as public property. I will be raising this at a political level - it might be too late for Rosetta, but wouldn't it be nice if some countries in Europe made their support for future missions conditional on full and immediate data release?
link

Not like these are EU nutters and that ain't gunna write peer reviewed papers on it!
 
And yet it is clear from various instruments on Rosetta that all kinds of water is present around the comet.

Are you able to state unequivocally water ice has been found on or in 67P?

Otherwise like you keep accusing the ECH mob of it's speculation!

I believe it dry as a nun's
 
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Are you able to state unequivocally water ice has been found on or in 67P?

Read correctly what I say, I say all kinds of water has been found around the comet. I said nothing about ice. I would not expect much open ice on a comet which passes close by the Sun every 6 years. I have stated that before. I am sure there is lots of ice inside the comet, otherwise there would not be any water around the comet and there would not be the jets from the comet.

But hey, now I am also starting to sound like a broken record, because you come up with the same same questions every time, and don't bother with actually reading and understanding cometary papers.
 
Rather you mean to expose ignorance about what you cite again, Sol88 :p.
On the one hand there is the detection of water ice on and below the surface of Tempel 1.
On the other hand there is a paper about jet activity on ice cliffs. You cannot understand that this paper
* is missing a very specific word - water!
* explicitly mentions "the presence of several different ices species"!

So why weren't the icy cliffs shown on the map where the water ice was located??


after thought maybe?
 
Read correctly what I say, I say all kinds of water has been found around the comet. I said nothing about ice. I would not expect much open ice on a comet which passes close by the Sun every 6 years. I have stated that before. I am sure there is lots of ice inside the comet, otherwise there would not be any water around the comet and there would not be the jets from the comet.

But hey, now I am also starting to sound like a broken record, because you come up with the same same questions every time, and don't bother with actually reading and understanding cometary papers.

Ok Tusenfem, lots of ice all thru the comet, all kinds of ice including:

H2O
H2O2
C
O
CO
CO2
I
C,H CH4 methane
C2H6 ethane
C2H2 acetylene
C4H2
diacetylene
CH3C2H
C,O,H CH3OH 2methanol
H2CO formaldehyde
CH2OHCH2OH ethylene glycol
HCOOH formic acid
HCOOCH methyl formate
CH3CHO acetaldehyde
ketene
c-C2H4O 0 oxirane
C2H5OH trans ethanol
CH2OHCHOglycolaldehyde
CH3OCH3 dimethyl ether
CH3COOH acetic acid
N NH3 0.7 ammonia
HCN hydrogen cyanide
HNCO isocyanic acid
HNC hydrogen isocyanide
CH3CN methyl cyanide
HC3N cyanoacetylene
NH2CHO formamide
NH2O Hhydroxylamine
HCNO fulminic acid
CH2NH methanimine
NH2CN cyanamide
N2O nitrous oxide
NH2-CH2-COOH I glycine I
C2H5CN cyanoethane
HC5N cyanobutadiyne
S H2S hydrogen sulfide
OCS 0.4 Extended source carbonyl sulfide
SO 0.3 Extended source sulfur monoxide
SO2 sulfur dioxide
CS2 CS carbon disulfide
H2CS thioformaldehyde
S2 disulfur
CH3SH methanethiol
NS
P phosphine
NaOH sodium hydroxide
NaCl sodium chloride

SOURCE

So how about the clay, carbonates, and crystallised silicates????
 
As soon as you can show me an actual EC fantasy calculation of the EDM creating the the jets, maybe then I will pay attention to your delusions again.

My assumption based on the list of molecules in the post above...far too complex for ANY maths.
 
Also

Though the post-impact spectrum is still being analyzed, it shows that Tempel 1's ejecta contain the following chemicals: smectite clay; iron-containing compounds; carbonates, the minerals in seashells; crystallized silicates, such as the green olivine minerals found on beaches and in the gemstone peridot; and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are carbon-containing compounds found in car exhaust and on burnt toast.
LINK


smectite clay: The most common members are montmorillonite, nontronite and saponite.

iron-containing compounds: a little ambiguous to list but Hematite is a good candidate

carbonates: In chemistry, a carbonate is a salt of carbonic acid, characterized by the presence of the carbonate ion, CO2−
3., same as above, a little ambiguous to list.

crystallized silicates: Also a little ambiguous to list but generally need high temperatures to form. Olivine, Forsterite

Oh and ICE's
 
Ok Tusenfem, lots of ice all thru the comet, all kinds of ice including:

SOURCE

So how about the clay, carbonates, and crystallised silicates????

How so, what about them? What are you trying to say/ask, if the impact on Temple 1 ejected that, or why clay does not appear in a list of ices? Or what?

Did you understand that H2O had a value 100 whereas the next biggest is CO at 23 and then CO2 at 6. What is it you want to say with a copy of one column of a table in a paper?

That is not a question, you have to explain yourself first, if you want to get answers (which you will not accept, because they don't jive with your preconceptions).
 
My assumption based on the list of molecules in the post above...far too complex for ANY maths.

Well, yeah, for your math surely.
Then again that is not an answer at all, as expected from you.
Please ask your friends on thunderdolts how the EDM is processing the nucleus, creating the water, and in what amounts, and why that EDM leaves not traces in the fields instruments?
I doubt that you will do that, but hey, I am a sucker for optimism.
 
I guess this paper by Gicquel et al., 2012 (freely available) talks readily about the large amount of ice released by the impact.

So I will then quote the abstract of this paper to discuss ice:
(mum = micro-meter)

Gicquel et al. said:
Results: Both the color temperature of the grains in the ejecta cloud (375 ± 5 K) and their size distribution show that a large quantity of submicron grains were ejected by the impact. The velocity of the smallest grains is 230 m s-1, with a power index for the size dependence of 0.3-0.5, in agreement with gas loading. The total mass of dust is (0.7-1.2) × 105 kg for grain sizes 0.1-1 mum and (0.5-2.1) × 106 kg for sizes 0.1-100 mum. A sustained production of water is observed, which can be explained by the sublimation of pure ice grains with sizes less than 1 mum and comprising a mass of ice of (0.8-1.8) × 107 kg. The contribution of dirty ice grains to the ice budget is negligible. Assuming that water was essentially produced by icy grains present in the ejecta cloud, our measurements suggest a very high ice-to-dust ratio of about 10 in the excavated material, which greatly exceeds the gas-to-dust production rate ratio of ~0.5 measured for the background coma. Alternately, if a large amount of material felt back to the surface and sublimated, ice-to-dust ratios of 1-3 are not excluded. A better understanding of the cratering event on 9P/Tempel 1 is required to disentangle between the two hypotheses. Evidence for grain fragmentation in the ejecta cloud is found in the data. The pre-impact water production rate is measured to be (4.7 ± 0.7) × 1027 mol s-1.

Something similar from the EC fantasy would be called for.
 
Yes, I want the math.

But what have you given me instead? Words, only words. No math at all.

And the kicker (of course) is that this still has nothing to do with the Velikovskian nonsense about changing planet masses, it's about trying to solve the galactic rotation curve problem.

Classic Haig fail. As it was, so shall it ever be.

Haig's most trusted authorities appear to be Velikovsky and the Internet's most notorious crackpot.


That's crackpottery, not math. There's a difference.

Your first link goes to a web page that contains no math at all. It links to several other web pages by the same crackpot, Miles Mathis. I started to read the first those, his paper on charge. In that web page, Mathis calls attention to the fact that the units for Coulomb's law make sense, from which he concludes "We are being led on some sort of wild goose chase." He then claims the charge q1 and q2 have no units. Wondering how he arrived at that conclusion, I noticed he had written his second equation (for Coulomb's constant) as
k = 1/4πε0
instead of the correct
k = 1/(4πε0)​

His third equation (for permittivity of free space) contains a similar error.

You can browse an entire web blog devoted to Miles Pantload Mathis, "The Internet's Most Notorious Crackpot".

He beat out some impressive competition. Before you dismiss that superlative as hyperbole, check out Mathis's alleged proof that pi equals 4.

Wow. I mean, it was obviously a crank page, but I really didn't stick around long enough to see just how deep. That's pretty amazing.

What say you, Haig? Is pi really 4?

First - Why did I bring Miles Mathis into this thread ? ...

Electric Comets requires an Electric Sun requires an Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology ... it's a package deal they ALL go together :)

And Miles Mathis has a finger in ALL those Pi(s) :p

check these PDF's of his ...

The Cometary Antitail

Electrical Charge

More on the MASS GAP and YANG-MILLS

The Problem with Reduced Mass

The Electron Orbit (the greatest hole in Quantum Mechanics)

Second - In my list of some the Space Greats ... Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Birkland, Bruce, Velikovsky, Alfvén, Juergens, Scott, Thornhill, Talbott, Mathis ...

Both Galileo and Mathis have "Artist" in their CV .... you "could" say Miles Mathis is a modern day "Galileo" ;)

The point is NONE of my list OR YOUR list of Space Greats or ANY list of humans got everything right or didn't make mistakes.

Prove me WRONG ... name ANY human who was right about everything and never made a mistake ?

Third - Your FIRST reaction to anyone who challenges the mainstream dogma is to attack the person much much more than the new idea. Why is that ?

Rules for all sections of the Forum
0. Be civil and polite.E1

12. “Address the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.E8

So language like crank, crackpot, idiocy, delusions, ignorant, pantload ... etc ... aren't really compliant with rule 0. or 12. now are they ???

You know who you are ... pack it in ... or else ... the mods will come in again !

You can disagree without being rude or abusive ... can't you ? :D

Now Mathis and Pi ...

Steve David Urich blog on The Pi=4 Theory is a case in point ... language "the crown jewel of crackpottery. This theory alone has elevated Mathis from an obscure, struggling artist and ballet dancer, to undisputed King of the Crackpots." ; "other assorted silliness and hogwash." : "the most outlandish and absurd nonsense that Mathis, or any other crank, has ever produced; this is crackpottery on steroids." : "this idiotic and perposterous theory:" just a sample :eek:

Some of Mathis papers that sparked this abuse ...

Proof from NASA that π is 4
Since the rocket is responsible for only a part of the orbital velocity, g being responsible for the rest, you cannot look at a variance in orbital velocity to show the error in the experiment. No, you look at R or T, as Hoagland did. Harris misdirects on T, as I have shown, and ignores R. He doesn't want to admit that the rocket flew much higher than expected, because that really does tie into propulsion very strongly. The altitude reached is completely dependent on the propulsion of the rocket, working against gravity.


and

Clarification of the equation a = v2/r
Acceleration is also defined as a change in velocity, but you cannot have a change at an instant. Change requires an interval of change. Motion can only take place over a differential. This being so, we should have been able to find that differential. If the acceleration is not taking place at an instant, it must be taking place over some real time, and we should have been able to find that real time. Problem is, Newton couldn't solve this one, and no one else since then could either. They were looking in the wrong place. They were looking near zero, and the answer was hiding at 1/8th of the circle. The answer is found only when the tangent equals the radius. Because physicists could not solve this, they decided to hide it. Once again, they hid it in the instant. They buried it in the zero and covered it over with centuries of slippery math and slippery explanations. As you now see, the solution is simple.


I don't see a problem with Mathis's logic, reasoning or math and he is right to point to the "holes" in mainstream dogma. ;)

He is not alone ...

The problem of "Pi" and the problem of "Prime Numbers"
4.Pi “or π” is the connection point between numbers and geometry. While it’s not mysterious in geometry, it’s so mysterious in “numbers”. If we agree that numbers basically basically are integers and introducing fraction “or decimal point” is just arbitrary, any “true” or “original” number should be an integer in a numbering system of our choice. Can π be considered a number?
 
Haig: Sol88's post is wrong in its hints of paranoia about results being hidden.
The reason that the scientific images are not publically available has been explained a few times and Sol88 (and you Haig?) still cannot grasp the concept of a reward for 20 years of hard work is getting first use of the data that your work made possible :jaw-dropp.

The delay points out a difference between science and delusion. The astronomers have not just scanned through the images and endlessly repeated the dogma of "looks like rock and so must be rock"! They are actually analyzing the data that makes up the images which takes time.

Access to Rosetta data (16/07/2014!)

So it is dumb to demand data from even the start of the encounter back August 2014 given that the data will not be released until at least February 2015 (aside from the images that teams released e.g. for publicity and conferences) :eye-poppi!

Rosetta in 2015
has the first images for 2015 (expect more delusions about these showing rocks :D) and a Valentines Day present is on its way:

I think your wrong Reality Check.

There IS cause for concern about the way mainly publicly funded science is being withheld in the Rosetta mission.

You only have to read a few of the comments on the blog you link to ROSETTA IN 2015
my bold
Dave says:
06/01/2015 at 16:19
Summary 2014- Rosetta surprises and anomalies through the past year
There were many surprises during 2014 thanks to ESA, and many others, what a fabulous mission and fabulous execution in getting a Lander on to the comet and then succeed in getting some data from the surface.
I have briefly listed some of the major surprises, who could of predicted that the comet should turn out so different to expectation. How much more interesting has the project been because of these surprises, and how much more will we learn about the environment we live in from the unexpected data?
1. Comet activity Flared up briefly while still very far from the sun, and before Rosetta had caught up with it, Not so much was made of this, but it seemed to be too far away from the sun to be warming from the sun. It remains to be adequately explained
2. Density was revised slightly early on , 0.3 to 0.4 if my memory is correct. So dirty snowball people thought it too high, but people expecting something like rock, based on pictures from recent comets were still thinking the figures could almost be up to an order of magnitude out.
Then the comet was found to have a hard shell with no ice present, then the figures from Consert declare that the comet is homogeneous – So no voids, this puts the current density figure even further into the spot light. Figures from Consert though don’t explain what the core is made of, it was designed specifically to detail ice structures, so is there any in the core? Is the density also homogeneous?
At one stage the discussion about the density on the blog was one of the most contested, so I guess this will result in a lot of interest.
-Can the density really be so far out? – What can be the cause? Is there something we still need to understand. (Its difficult sometimes to trust Gravity, especially when our galaxies refuse to fly apart. So is there something we are missing)
This anomaly may threaten to be one of the biggest conundrums

3. Temperature (average) of the Comet surface was then measured to be about 30 degrees higher than expected.
Again not too much made of it and still not adequately explained, when temperature maps were issued they were not much to help ascertain what was going on, also resolution of the temperature maps was a bit coarse. Could of it been electrical activity? The sun was a long way away when first measured.
This too, so far has not been adequately described.
4. Dust, for the first particles captured very early on, there was surprise that dust had been detected from so far away, there was also surprise at the sizes, there was a promise to update when some analysis was available, although this was done, not much was given away.
Then the most recent article on dust (MiDAS atomic force microscope), The particles were too big to fit the microscope. A bit of a surprise, although the designer says not totally unexpected, the equipment was not set up to measure such large pieces of dust, also it was said to be Fluffy, from which you could infer it may of been of electrical origin
5. Ice, Not detectable on the surface, from Rosetta instruments, it then became very puzzling that people have continued to state that sublimation was the cause of the jets of gas and dust even though no ice is available to sublimate from the surface.
The argument then changed stating that ice was below the surface. This also seemed odd, as not even Consert has so far found ice under the surface, and it was designed specifically to detect ice and its structures.
Not only that the visible evidence is just not there, when you look at the carved areas, especially the neck, there still appears no ice visible or detectable.

Phillae landed and we had the statement, that the hammer and hit something not inconsistent with hard Ice. Thus confirms only that the surface is hard but not how hard, so far Phillae has not detected ice on the surface either.
Recently though, information released from Ptolomy indicates that h2o is in the atmosphere just above the ground. At last some information, but how did it get there if there was no surface ice to sublimate it? So even with this experiment there is still a large anomaly to solve, we have water in the thin 67p atmosphere but seemingly not on the comet.
In a further release from ESA, it confirmed that the shiny bright patches on the comet are not Ice.
Again this is confirmation that the surface is not sublimating, IT IS A BIG SURPRISE

If we look at the proposed model for sub surface sublimation, we have been asked to accept that ice close to the surface sublimates through a jet/nozzle in the ground as it heats up and sublimates. The surprise is we cannot see this happening anywhere yet. The origin of many jets can be traced back to flat ground or possible sharp edged features or even boulders.
The mechanism suggested for the pressurised jet from underground sublimation is compared with high pressure gas exiting a high pressure vessel with a small hole, hence very high ejection speeds can be achieved. This could be true but as the vent equalises its pressure with the light atmosphere of the comet, then the pressure will drop and so too will the ejection speed, until the source is spent.
This does not appear to be seen either. Shots taken days or weeks apart of the jets of gas & dust seem to be coming from the same place, and although there is some wax & wane in output, there seems to be a steady increase in intensity from the same area. How can this be explained by such a model?
So it would be surprising if these sublimation mechanisms were the cause of the jets because there has so far been no ice detected on the comet from which to sublimate and the mechanism suggested for sub-surface ejection, does not seem to reflect what we see.
In addition to all that, the jets of gas and dust that we can see have large diameters so how can this be produced from a small hole in the surface of the comet, and what makes the ejected material stay in a collimated stream, certainly not any effect from the hole it came from.
It is surprising that so far there is not much of a steer from the rosetta team that could give us a better idea on the mechanism. There should be good quality photos, and if the method is electrical in nature, not mechanically forcing gas through a small hole, then there are plenty of instruments to detect what is happening. Rosetta can measure magnetic fields, plasma and current flow, so far there has been little release of this information.
However in one of the last blogs from ESA before Xmas, they did mention that the jets coming off the head of the comet were due to electrical sputtering of the surface, an extremely surprising statement to come from the team

6. Morphology Its one of the craziest landscapes you will ever see, so definitely a very big surprise, as one person commented, ‘Its no dirty snowball is it ?’
It will certainly take some explaining, most of the craters do not look like collision or volcanism, so I guess it was no surprise, that nothing was presented at the AGU. I think more time is probably required.
7. Electrical activity, It must be a surprise that virtually nothing has been reported, considering the equipment that is available. Also nothing reported at the AGU. There has been huge discussion on the blog, so some data to confirm what level of activity there seems overdue.
Some of the disagreements on the blog need some info ie - No ice so how can there be sublimation vs not enough power to sputter bulk material electrically- looks likely to continue until there is some data.

8. No use of enthusiastic amateurs to help find Phillae. Plus phillae still lost !
This is a surprise and it has been used on other projects, great to have some extra hands and great for schools and overall engagement in space science. Another PR opportunity lost I think, even if it had turned out to be futile.
9. The wrong water
This was probably the most surprising statement from the mission so far, not merely did it state that it was the wrong water, it also stated that there was no possibility that comets like 67p could have been involved in seeding the earths oceans.
It was therefore surprising that the Ambition video was not taken off the blog, it directly contradicts the hard statement above. The video also states ‘making science fiction science fact!’ which also appears wrong when compared to the above statement.
There was little or no explanation of the heavy water (I have not seen the paper) and how the comets water came to be so different, Is the comet from a completely different region of space or is the water in the coma made from much younger material than the seas on the earth? Does it have any impact of the accretion theory of our solar system?
Anyway an answer was found very swiftly,
-it must be the asteroids that have seeded the earth’s oceans?
This is in itself a very striking statement, with apparently not too much to back it up. We have always taken asteroids to be made of rock! If there is water in them (some evidence for it in some types of asteroid) or in the rock they are made of. Then when hundreds of thousands or more hit the earth to seed the oceans, what has happened to all the rock that the asteroids would also bring? How can two thirds of the earth be ocean, if the process of seeding brought with it an overabundance of rock. I think it would be very surprising if it were true.
Anyway no sooner was this made public then the AGU started, and from two different sources came the revelation that the earths mantel could contain enough water to fill the pacific! I think one paper was presented at the AGU and another similar paper was published in a science journal from a different university.
Surprise, Surprise, do we need asteroids and comets at all to give earth water?
Where does all this leave us?
Many, many surprises, probably a new comet model required, not just the construction and the evolution of the comet, but surely the theory that the earth’s main source of water must have been seeded, surely this has to die also, the current model is just not believable, even the evidence above indicates no water ice on comets and the water that was made in the comets atmosphere is not the kind of water that’s suitable for earth!
How many more nails do we need before we throw the std model away and start again based on good data, ESA must have some great data, so must be in the forefront for a guide to a new model.
2014 was an exciting year thanks to ESA, with many surprises, lets hope 2015 is even better. Lets hope some of the surprises begin to make more sense and a common narrative begin to form.


Reply
THOMAS says:
07/01/2015 at 13:12
Great summary Dave. I wanted to do something similar just to while away the time but the time somehow whiled itself away all by itself and I didn’t get round to it….
You’ve put your finger precisely on the most serious problem of all concerning the various anomalies you have listed, which is the non communication by virtually every one of the Rosetta instrument teams of anything but the most succinct information or surmise. They necessarily have huge amounts of henceforth deciphered data which is simply being withheld. We actually learnt almost nothing new about 67P’s characteristics and behaviour from the AGU presentations, as symbolized in particular, and from the very outset, by Claudia Alexander’s diversionary video presentation of the totally hypothetical Grand Track accretion model for planetary formation during the opening press conference on the Wednesday. It was if we were being prepared to expect the worst in terms of the quality of the “information” to come. We were thus neither particularly surprised nor disappointed by what followed. Claudia Alexander truly set the tone.
The only slight omission I can find in your summary concerns the persistent refusal of the OSIRIS team to share the body of their close-up images, even with the other Rosetta and Philae instrument scientists, presumably for fear of leaks by competing (?) teams… The OSIRIS images necessarily hold keys to several of the major anomalies you describe. They also add still further mysteries for the standard theory, such as the “dinosaur eggs” observed at the bottom of “pits” and embedded in cliff walls. Mouth-watering!
Humanly speaking, we can fully understand the reported exasperation of other Rosetta instrument teams with their OSIRIS ‘fellow scientists’. It’s as if the cameraman on a major, publicly-funded, geographical documentary project simply did a bunk with his footage so as to be able to publish it independently, leaving the other members of the team (anthropologists, botanists, geologists, biologists, zoologists, etc. etc.) to make do, in the meantime, with whatever information they had garnered and recorded personally.
Scientifically speaking, everyone is naturally free to draw his/her own conclusions from this withholding of essential information. My personal hunch is that the findings by EVERY instrument team are so utterly discordant with standard theory that the data (along with the required patches) will truly be a long time coming.



Electric Comet 67P IMAGES :cool:
 
How so, what about them? What are you trying to say/ask, if the impact on Temple 1 ejected that, or why clay does not appear in a list of ices? Or what?

Did you understand that H2O had a value 100 whereas the next biggest is CO at 23 and then CO2 at 6. What is it you want to say with a copy of one column of a table in a paper?

That is not a question, you have to explain yourself first, if you want to get answers (which you will not accept, because they don't jive with your preconceptions).

What's mainstreams explanation for these molecules AND minerals in the comet?

How were they formed in the nebular hypothesis theory...close to the Sun...near Jupiter...or any where's convinate to save prior theory????

Were they formed in the mythical Oort Cloud long ago and far away ��
 
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Are you able to enlighten me on the

Clays???

Carbonates???

Sodium???

crystalline silicates which were found by studying the spectroscopy of the impact, sound a LOT like rock!


Oh and no ICE just implied subsurface ice from the water production in the coma and tail.

Implied subsurface ice via spectroscopic analysis of the release of materials from the impact. Implied by its very existence! How dare that ice be so obvious!
 
Second - In my list of some the Space Greats ... Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Birkland, Bruce, Velikovsky, Alfvén, Juergens, Scott, Thornhill, Talbott, Mathis ...

Both Galileo and Mathis have "Artist" in their CV .... you "could" say Miles Mathis is a modern day "Galileo" ;)

The point is NONE of my list OR YOUR list of Space Greats or ANY list of humans got everything right or didn't make mistakes.

Prove me WRONG ... name ANY human who was right about everything and never made a mistake.

Sing with me!
Some of these scientists are not like the others
Some of these scientists just don't belong
Can you tell which of them is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

The real question to ask is not whether anyone got anything wrong, but whether they got anything right. Bruce, Velikovsky, Juergens, Scott, Thornhill, Talbott, and Mathis are batting 0.

And you played the Galileo Gambit. Pot, meet crack.
 
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