The Electric Comet theory

[LSSBB]

Wow, that's a lot of material. Thank you.
And yes, the first link doesn't work (it asks to login first).
UPD: Well, that was a bit hasty of me. It seems none of the links work for the people without an account.

Setting up an account for myself was easy, and free.

 

[Haig]

I've found nothing more recent where anyone has actually SOLVED the problems of Electric Comet models.

Tom, that is because they are "problems" of your own making. Misrepresenting or misunderstanding the Electric Comet hypothesis is common issue so that contrary arguments to it (ECh) are a line of straw men to easily knock over.

The quotes below from HERE should help you understand.

Misconception: If you’re not doing math, you’re not doing real science.

Answer: Science does not begin with mathematics, but with direct observation, experiment, and special insights into cause-and-effect relationships.

Of course, mathematics will follow as a new paradigm unfolds. In fact highly capable mathematicians are now coming into the Thunderbolts Project, attracted to new opportunities to quantify our Electric Universe.

The problems I outline in post #2941 still exist and you certainly have not responded to them. I'll repeat them here:

Sorry Tom for not responding earlier I don't have a lot of free time to always check previous pages and can easily miss questions directed at me.

Glad you recognise that : Electric Comets require an Electric Sun require an Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology

ELECTRIC COMET MODEL HYPOTHESIS:

• Comets are debris produced during violent electrical interactions of planets and moons in an earlier phase of solar system history — a phase that persisted into early human history. Comets are complex, differentiated bodies similar to asteroids, and their composition varies. Most comets should be homogeneous — their interiors will have the same composition as their surfaces. They are simply “asteroids on eccentric orbits.”
• Comets follow their eccentric orbits within a weak electrical field of constant strength, centered on the Sun. (See “A Mystery Solved – Welcome to the Electric Universe!“. They develop a charge imbalance with the higher voltage and charge density near the Sun that initiates discharge and the formation of a glowing plasma sheath – appearing as the coma and tail.
• The observed jets of comets are electric arc discharges to the nucleus, producing “electrical discharge machining” (EDM) of the surface. The excavated material is accelerated into space along the jets’ observed filamentary arcs.
• Intermittent and wandering arcs erode the surface and burn it black, leaving the distinctive scarring patterns of electric discharge machining. The primary distinction between a comet and an asteroid is that, due to its elliptical orbit, electrical arcing and ‘electrostatic cleaning’ will clean the nucleus’ surface, leaving little or no dust or debris on it.

The Deep Impact of Comet Theory

Care to provide some sample data values that I can run on my code for solar current or charge on the comet?

Cart before the horse Tom it's ALL about evidence !

The material below should give you food for thought and the answers for those enquiring minds.

Newton’s Electric Clockwork Solar System








Electric Gravity in an Electric Universe

When it was found that atoms are composed of charged particles, there were attempts to explain mass in terms of electromagnetism. Henri Poincaré wrote in 1914, “What we call mass would seem to be nothing but an appearance, and all inertia to be of electromagnetic origin.” It makes good sense that the equivalence of gravitational and inertial mass should be explained by the electrical structure of matter. However, it is not the philosophical concept of mass but its mathematical treatment that occupies physicists. Einstein’s famous equation, E = mc2, demonstrated that mass and electromagnetic energy are directly related. But mystification resulted when the earlier concept that related mass to ‘quantity of matter’ was unconsciously substituted. Textbooks and encyclopaedias today slip unnoticeably into the error of using the words ‘mass’ and ‘matter’ interchangeably. A NASA educational website tells us that “mass is a measure of how much matter a planet is made of.” It shows that the confusion of mass with quantity of matter infects astrophysics.

The consequences are profound for cosmology. The mass of a celestial body cannot tell us about its composition. We cannot say what the Sun is made from! Another example is comet nuclei, which are electrically charged bodies. They register masses that should have them constructed like an empty sponge yet they look like solid rock. It is their appearance, together with the recently recovered high-temperature minerals (rock particles) from a comet, that give the accurate picture. Comets and asteroids are fragments of planets. They are not primordial—quite the reverse, in fact.

A Mystery Solved – Welcome to the Electric Universe!

The implications of an electrical dimension to stars are profound. Obviously, if we do not understand our closest star, all speculation about more distant stars and their histories are misguided. Of course, it begs the question of the power source that maintains the galactic charge differentials to power stars. It is here that the electric star hypothesis merges seamlessly with plasma cosmology, which also had its origin in electrical engineering. Plasma cosmology, which is now recognized by the IEEE, is practically unknown amongst astronomers and astrophysicists. The latter have been content to ignore the warnings of Hannes Alfvén, the “father” of plasma physics and plasma cosmology, that their use of plasma theory is outdated and wrong.

Electric Galaxies

The scandalous truth is that there is a model of spiral galaxy formation that has long been demonstrated by laboratory experiment and “particle in cell” (PIC) simulations on a supercomputer. But instead of using stars, gas and dust as the particles, subject to Newton’s laws, the particles are charged and respond to the laws of electromagnetism. This seems like an obvious approach when we know that more than 99.9 percent of the visible universe is in the form of plasma. Plasma is a gas influenced by the presence of charged atoms and electrons. Plasma responds to electromagnetic forces that exceed the strength of gravity to the extent that gravity can usually be safely ignored. This simple fact alone suggests why gravitational models of galaxies must fail.

The Squatter Man / Tree of Life | Petroglyphs (rock art) evidence

The Squatter Man (Squatting Man or Stick Man) petroglyphs are an image recorded by nearly all races on all the continents back in the day. One day the ancients were painting colour rock art and then, nearly literally, they were painting strange white shapes and figures. Every one started at the same time with the same images. Either all races were in contact with each other or they were all inspired by the same event. The most likely way they could all have seen it was if the event was in the sky.

The discovery that objects from the Neolithic or Early Bronze Age carry patterns associated with high-current Z-pinches provides a possible insight into the origin and meaning of these ancient symbols produced by man. This paper directly compares the graphIcal and radiation data from high-current Z-pinches to these patterns. The paper focuses primarily, but not exclusively, on petroglyphs. It is found that a great many archaic petroglyphs can be classified according to plasma stability and instability data. As the same morphological types are found worldwide, the comparisons suggest the occurrence of an intense aurora, as might be produced if the solar wind had increased between one and two orders of magnitude, millennia ago

Symbols of an Alien Sky | Clip #2

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

The quotes below from HERE should help you understand.
Originally Posted by thunderbolts
Misconception: If you’re not doing math, you’re not doing real science.

Answer: Science does not begin with mathematics, but with direct observation, experiment, and special insights into cause-and-effect relationships.

"Special Insights?" What, are we dowsing now? Science is reproducible results. If your "special insight"'and my "special insight" produce different results that isn't science.

 

[Matthew Cline]

"Special Insights?" What, are we dowsing now? Science is reproducible results. If your "special insight"'and my "special insight" produce different results that isn't science.

To be fair, the quote did say "Science does not begin with [emphasis added]", and the generation of hypothesis might involve "special insight". Of course, most of the non-EC people here (including me) think that once you have a hypothesis you can test it with math, or at least use math to generate upper and lower bounds. But some of the pro-EC people here are (AFAIR) saying that between the stages of "hypothesis" and "theory" is the stage "model", where a hypothesis need not have any math and a model is hypothesis + math (or something like that).

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I this case I understand "special insights" to cover the topics later in his post, where they make up stories ("z pinch") about petroglyphs.

 

[ferd burfle]

I this case I understand "special insights" to cover the topics later in his post, where they make up stories ("z pinch") about petroglyphs.

Yeah, my favorite from Secrets of an Alien Sky was how two dots on either side of a petroglyph stick figure represent "synchrotron radiation".

ferd

 

[Dancing David]

Hardness is ‘hard’ to characterize in any material. The different quantities that go into hardness vary not only with temperature and pressure. They also vary with the history and macroscopic structure of the material. Materials have some hysteresis in their resistance to stress. A hard material can be also ‘brittle’, so it is difficult to determine how the materials will respond to impact. However, general trends can be demonstrated.

However, the general trends in hardness are available. It is seen that

Water ice comes in various forms, such as crystalline and amorphous. These forms get harder as they cool down. The ice on the comet right now should be something like 30 K. So the large crystals should be very hard. I am not sure how this relates to the electric comet ‘theory’.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1021134128038#page-2
The mechanical properties of ice and snow are reviewed. The tensile strength of ice varies from 0.7 to 3.1 MPa and the compressive strength of ice varies from 5-25 MPA over the temperature range -10C to -20 C.’

The following shows that the hardness of an ice crystal increases dramatically as the temperature decreases. A comparison isn’t made with other materials. However, it is clear that the colder water ice gets, the harder it is.

http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM43/AM43_48.pdf
'Frc. 1. Brinell hardness of sirlgle ice crystals vs. temperatule. Twelve second application of load. (Above) Normal to c-axis. (Below) Parallel to c-axis.'

The graphs show that any piece of ice will get much harder as it cools down. I don't know what Brinell hardness really is. However, I note that compressive and tensile strength increases in ice as the temperature goes down.

Like most materials, water ice has hysteresis. One of the things that scientists hope to find out through Rossetta is what form different materials, including water ice, take. So hardness is an unknown.

Apparently scientists underestimated the hardness of the surface when they designed those harpoons. However, I don't really know what difference it makes to the comet. The ice will start to sublimate as it gets warmer.

We agree, I was noting that Sol88 just likes to make assertions without evidence.

IE: 'The glaciers were ice that wore down mountains, therefore glaciers are rocks'

 

[ben m]

Yeah, my favorite from Secrets of an Alien Sky was how two dots on either side of a petroglyph stick figure represent "synchrotron radiation".

ferd

I also like how they have to cherry-pick both the stick figures of a certain form and the one weird plasma-chamber photo, with the right cropping and the right angle, that has any of those features. The "dots" in their plasma photo is not "synchrotron radiation", it's just ionization/fluorescence from another plasma in this particular chamber, which must be of fairly high pressure.

I just clicked through a hilarious Anthony Peratt paper (http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=4287072) where he and someone who appears to be his son hike around the southwest, noting the locations of and sky-views from different rock-art sites.

Hilariously stupid #1: I think he's trying to correlate the view from the site with the appearance of a plasma-simulation from that angle. Like how you can match up a Thomas Cole painting with a Hudson River scenic view and figure out exactly where he was sitting? Dude, I don't think that rock art was typically done like a plein-air session, facing the thing you're painting, unless you think there were major buffalo hunts inside the caves at Lascaux.

Hilariously stupid #2: Half of the paper consists of these obviously-laboriously-assembled map overlays. There must be a thousand geotagged rock-art sites in there. Sounds like we're ready to do some data analysis, right? Wrong. The coordinates are used to put flags on a map---that's it. A few are selected as looks-like-a-bunny examples. Nothing whatsoever is correlated, regressed, tallied, cross-checked, averaged, or processed in any way.

Hilariously stupid #3: Peratt shows a kitchen-sink worth of random plasma phenomenon pictures. Pinches! Aurorae! Filament-forming currents! Many of which include, y'know, lines. Parallel lines, sometimes. OMG LOOK HERE ARE PARALLEL LINES ON A ROCK. Radiating lines, at other times. OMG HERE'S ROCK ART WITH RADIATING LINES. Twisty lines. AND SOME ROCK ART HAS TWISTY LINES.

Hilariously stupid #4: In one case a totally-recognizable human figures (with, like, eyes, noses, five-fingered hands) are ignored and relabeled as a view through a z-pinch. This particular figure appears to date from ~500 years ago, a time when I'm pretty sure there were not sky-filling plasma lines with eyes and fingers.

 

[Ziggurat]

This particular figure appears to date from ~500 years ago, a time when I'm pretty sure there were not sky-filling plasma lines with eyes and fingers.

But what if you're wrong, ben? What if, right now, there's a giant plasma monster watching you with its plasma eyes, waiting to reach down and grab you with its plasma finger?

My god, ben, don't you see the danger we're all in? We need to take the threat of sky-filling plasma giants seriously, before it's too late!

 

[ben m]

But what if you're wrong, ben? What if, right now, there's a giant plasma monster watching you with its plasma eyes, waiting to reach down and grab you with its plasma finger?

My god, ben, don't you see the danger we're all in? We need to take the threat of sky-filling plasma giants seriously, before it's too late!

(Don Lafontaine voice)

In a world where the skies were quiet for 500 years ...

(slow pan across rock art)

But we had ignored the warnings ...

(Naomi Watts squints into a telescope)

... of what we'd see ...

(Nicolas Cage's eyes widen)

... when Maxwell's Equations took on a life of their own.

(CGI plasma monsters stomp across cities)

This summer, don't look twice, you may suffer from

(Naomi Watts is sucked into a plasma chamber. Nic Cage manically carves lines in a rock. A PDP-11 display slowly renders a picture of a stick figure.)

PAREIDOLIA: ELECTRIC SKY

 

[Belz...]

But what if you're wrong, ben? What if, right now, there's a giant plasma monster watching you with its plasma eyes, waiting to reach down and grab you with its plasma finger?

My god, ben, don't you see the danger we're all in? We need to take the threat of sky-filling plasma giants seriously, before it's too late!

I'm just feeling the free electrons moving to my surface, and reducing my mass.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Hilariously stupid #4: In one case a totally-recognizable human figures (with, like, eyes, noses, five-fingered hands) are ignored and relabeled as a view through a z-pinch. This particular figure appears to date from ~500 years ago, a time when I'm pretty sure there were not sky-filling plasma lines with eyes and fingers.

Well, Velikovsky said that the humans who witnessed the planetary billiards were so traumatized by it that they repressed all memories of it, only for the repressed memories to surface in their mythologies. So maybe the same thing happened here, and the truth of it will be revealed when some intrepid EU scientist does a cross-cultural comparison of 15th century art.

 

[Sol88]

@Tusenfem

firstly well done on the science returned so far from RPC!

Just finished watching the presentaion at AGU fall meeting, very informative.

Are you able to expand on some of the points raised in this short presentation? Namely negatively charged dust grains and the sputtering of the comets surface by the solar wind, in relation to the paper by Andrew Coates and how this may effect cometary jets?

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm just feeling the free electrons moving to my surface, and reducing my mass.

The kicker is that such charge separation will increase mass (though only to a trivial extent), not decrease it.

 

[Ziggurat]

(Naomi Watts squints into a telescope)

... of what we'd see ...

(Nicolas Cage's eyes widen)

Excellent choice of casting.

 

[Sol88]

the preliminary ALICE findings are also very interesting 99.5% Tholins and 0.5% H2O as a good to fit to the data.

Production and Chemical Analysis of Cometary Ice Tholins

Organic heteropolymers that we call here ice tholin II have
been produced by plasma discharge irradiation of water/
methanol/carbon dioxide/ethane cocondensed ices in a rough
simulation of cometary chemistry. The radiation yield of these

 

[Sol88]

And the ROSINA instrument...WoW, sputtering, triatomic spiecies namely sulphur, lots of it.

Mmmmm.....

 

[Sol88]

Now we can really start talking about the difference in models, mainstream and the ELECTRIC COMET.

Let's begin again, finigan.

Where would you like to start Reality Check?

Shall we talk about the surprises of the mainstream interpretation of what comets are?

 

[LSSBB]

the preliminary ALICE findings are also very interesting 99.5% Tholins and 0.5% H2O as a good to fit to the data.

Production and Chemical Analysis of Cometary Ice Tholins

"Received June 12, 1995; revised January 17, 1996"


Do you know what tholins are? What do you think their connection is to EC?

 

[Sol88]

"Received June 12, 1995; revised January 17, 1996"


Do you know what tholins are? What do you think their connection is to EC?

Wiki gives a quick description and this paper gives it a little more meat
Interaction of Titan's ionosphere with Saturn's magnetosphere

Titan is a body with no significant dipole moment (Ness et al. 1982; Backes et al. 2005). However, it does have a substantial neutral atmosphere and an ionosphere. Other bodies in the Solar System in this category include Mars, Venus, comets, and probably Pluto near its perihelion.

or from the source

Title:
Tholins - Organic chemistry of interstellar grains and gas
Authors:
Sagan, C.; Khare, B. N.
Affiliation:
AA(Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y.), AB(Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y.)
Publication:
Nature, vol. 277, Jan. 11, 1979, p. 102-107. (Nature Homepage)
Publication Date:
01/1979
Category:
Astrophysics
Origin:
STI
NASA/STI Keywords:
Cosmic Gases, Interstellar Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Radiation Chemistry, Ultraviolet Radiation, Gas Chromatography, Infrared Spectra, Mass Spectroscopy, Organic Compounds, Photodissociation, Solids

Abstract
The paper discusses tholins, defined as complex organic solids formed by the interaction of energy - for example, UV light or spark discharge - with various mixtures of cosmically abundant gases - CH4, C2H6, NH3, H2O, HCHO, and H2S. It is suggested that tholins occur in the interstellar medium and are responsible for some of the properties of the interstellar grains and gas. Additional occurrences of tholins are considered. Tholins have been produced experimentally; 50 or so pyrolytic fragments of the brown, sometimes sticky substances have been identified by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry, and the incidence of these fragments in tholins produced by different procedures is reported.

my bold