The Electric Comet theory

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paladin17 said:
As far as I know, the measured D/H ratio looks pretty much like chondritic meteorites. ....
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Hi paladin17 - welcome to the forum.
That may be correct. If so we can expect the E proponents to follow their usual pseudoscience logic and claim it as evidence that comets are chondritic meteorites - forgetting that the D.H ratio has been now measured fro 11 comets and covers a wide range of values. That is evidence against comets being chondritic meteorites - even if we were dumb enough to ignore their measured densities :eek:!

The scientific argument is that the D/H ratio should vary in the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud and that would be reflected in comet D/H ratios. I can guess why - maybe radiation pressure would push lighter H atoms further away than heavier D atoms.
 
Haig: List of outstanding questions

Haig said:
Well guys ... I think what we have here is Failure to communicate
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Well, Haig, it is well documented over the last 4 years that you have been posting in this thread that what we have is a denial of basic science in order to believe blindly in a web site fantasy :p!
Electric comets still do not exist :eek:!

This denial includes what electromagnetic waves and permanent magnets are!
Haig: List of outstanding questions. Plus
 
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I would like to address this subpoint from upthread:

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At the time of Holmes' extraordinary display, the comet was actually moving away from the Sun, and therefore cooling.
/quote

What time of day on earth is the hottest? Before noon, noon or after noon? Usually, about 3 hours after local noon is the hottest part of the day, on average, despite the intuitive notion that the day shoud be "cooling off" after local noon.

Thermal loading on systems due to insolation has significant hysteresis. The comet in question was "moving away" but insolation and thermal saturation was continuing.
 
paladin17 said:
The Sun, of course. Please calculate how much current goes from it every second in all directions (due to the solar wind).
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Two things wrong with this question, paladin17
Firstly it is the electric comet idea that there is charge separation magically these electrical discharges that create water, etc. from rock. It is up to the electric comet proponents to do the calculations in order to support their idea. Thus you should ask them, not us. This is going to be a problem since they acknowledge that the idea cannot do this. Also it is possible that they are incapable even doing back-of-the-envelope calculations since those have been lacking in the decade that the idea has existed.

Secondly the current due to the solar wind alone is zero. The solar wind is neutral. There are plenty of sources for this if you want to look them up.
 
Haig: What is the argument from incredibility or ignorance

Haig said:
Embers from a Rock Comet
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Well, I don't know about you, Haig, but that is science :eek:.
But that is just ... amazing that you do not know about argument from ignorance, Haig: 15 December 2014 Haig: What is the argument from incredibility or ignorance?
A "rock comet" is not a comet - it is dust being blown off an asteroid close to the Sun.
 
paladin17 said:
I Solar wind is a stream of charged particles, i.e. it is an electric current.
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No, paladin17. A electric current is a net flow of charge. A moving rock is not a current even though it contains both positive and negative charges :jaw-dropp!
The solar wind is electrically neutral and so is not an electric current.
 
paladin17 said:
...
There are several factors here. First of all, the eccentricity of the orbit. Then, I guess, mineral composition. ...
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paladin17, it looks like you should learn a basic fact about comets - their measured densities are ~5 times less than that of rock :eye-poppi.
This means that the basic premise of comets being rock is wrong. Anything based on comets being rock is not science - it is fantasy.
Reality Check said:
Updated the densities post with 67P observations.
  1. Comets have measured densities that are much less than that of rocks (asteroids).
  2. Comets may not have the composition of asteroids
  3. Deep Impact confirmed that comet nuclei are made of dust and ice not rock. There were a couple of surprises in that the dust was talcum powder rather than sand and the amount of ice was smaller than expected.
    "Analysis of data from the Swift X-ray telescope showed that the comet continued outgassing from the impact for 13 days, with a peak five days after impact. A total of 5 million kilograms (11 million pounds) of water[35] and between 10 and 25 million kilograms (22 and 55 million pounds) of dust were lost from the impact."WP
    Thus the water content of Comet Tempel 1 is 20% to 50%.
  4. Cometary dust as collected by the Stardust mission contain forms of carbon that are not in meteorites.
  5. Electric Comets I
  6. Electric Comets II: References
  7. Electric Comets III: No EU X-rays (actually no EU X-ray bursts).
  8. The EC assumption of EDM machining does not produce jets.
  9. EDM in the EC idea needs a dielectric material which does not exist!
  10. No EDM sparks are seen in images of comet nuclei.
  11. No EDM hot spots are seen in thermal maps of Tempel 1.
  12. Voltage potentials are many orders of magnitude too small.
  13. EC predicts that 100,000's of asteroids should be comets
  14. Water, water everywhere (except in the EC idea)
  15. EC proponents have the delusion that argument by YouTube video is somehow scientific :eek:!
  16. EC proponents may think that EC comets switch off at perihelion?
  17. EC proponents trust a web site that lies to its readers about "confirmed" predictions: The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions. [/URL
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6599318#post6599318
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6599318#post6599318
 
Haig said:
So we have...
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So we actually have yet another ignorant, almost paranoid quote from the Thunderbolts cranks, Haig - what a surprise :p!
So we have the "Dirty Snowball comet" morphing into the"Snowy Dirtball comet" morphing into a delusion about "Rock Comet" morphing into a lie about a "MS version Electric Comet" :eek:
When the truth is that we have a ice + dust comet hat has electrical activity (but not the delusions of electrical discharges in the electric comet idea).
Electric comets still do not exist
 
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Haig: Please cite the Electric Comet answer to the Holmes 17P outburst

Haig said:
Mainstream had NO answer to this Electric Comet behaviour by Comet Holmes 17P, any of you care to explain it ? I won't hold my breath
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Highlighting a lie does not prevent it from being a lie, Haig :p.

Comet Holmes 17P
The cause of the outburst is not definitely known. The huge cloud of gas and dust may have resulted from a collision with a meteoroid, or, more probably, from a build-up of gas inside the comet's nucleus that eventually broke through the surface.[15] However, researchers at the Max Planck Institute suggest in a paper published in Astronomy and Astrophysics that the brightening can be explained by a thick, air-tight dust cover and the effects of H2O sublimation, with the comet's porous structure providing more surface area for sublimation, up to one order of magnitude greater. Energy from the Sun – insolation – was stored in the dust cover and the nucleus within the months before the outburst.[16]
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15 December 2014 Haig: Please cite the Electric Comet answer to this Electric Comet behavior by Comet Holmes 17P. I won't hold my breath!
 
JeanTate said:
Good morning, Sol88.

Quite recently, I wrote:


Seems appropriate; perhaps I should repeat it?

Can we return to discussion of the ech, please?

You started this thread, explicitly on "The Electric Comet theory". Yet you seem to spend much - perhaps most - of your time (as measured in words in your posts) on topics other than the ech.

Why is it apparently so hard for you to stay focused?
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So no bearing on the Electric Comet then Jean Tate??? Mmmm.....you come across as though most EC proponents have got two heads.

and while the mainstream acknowledge Dusty Plasmas why would they not take the next logical step??

and

Everytime someone from the EC side brings up something relevent to the EC idea, we are accused of not staying focused...:confused:

My prediction....this weeks AGU meeting is gunna cause a stir and we'll have so much more "New" material to play some forum tennis with, it's goning to be fun.

I also predict, the standard mainstream model for comets and solar system formation are going to called into question. :D
 
Sol88 said:
MUPUS on the Rosetta Lander Philae: First Results

That'll be a short talk! Ummm....we broke it, the surface was surprisingly hard!
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Not if you read and understood what you cited or what actually happened, Sol88.
Philae settles in dust-covered ice
Firstly the probe was not broken. It worked.
The probe then started to hammer itself into the subsurface, but was unable to make more than a few millimetres of progress even at the highest power level of the hammer motor.
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Secondly the MUPUS package is not just a 'hammer' - MUPUS
MUPUS (Multi-Purpose Sensors for Surface and Subsurface Science) uses sensors on the Lander's anchor, probe and exterior to measure the density, thermal and mechanical properties of the surface.
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Sol88 said:
So no bearing on the Electric Comet then Jean Tate??? ...
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Yes, Sol88, because the idiocy of thinking that trying to debunk the scientific model of comets through rather hysterical and ignorant posts rather than science is support for an already invalid electric comet idea should be obvious.
Except apparently to you and Haig who are still in love with the fantasy the electricity can magically make comet density measured in multiple ways into that of rock :p.

Electric comets still do not exist :eek:!
 
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