The Electric Comet theory

[Ziggurat]

Go on Zig have a read
VLT telescope reveals mysterious alignment of quasars with the Universe’s large-scale structure

Confirmation of the right hand rule in electromagnetism

What else BUT ...... EU/PC could give this result?

Gravity, angular momentum, and quantum fluctuations during the early stages of the universe.

But go ahead... show me your calculations proving that none of this is sufficient. Hell, show me a calculation that demonstrates electromagnetism is sufficient.

But I ask in vain. The Electric Universe crowd can never produce, ever. Nothing ever goes beyond handwaving.

 

[Ziggurat]

To start ...just read and understand this ... Know plasma, know 99.999% of the Universe

Not an answer.

 

[Haig]

Gravity, angular momentum, and quantum fluctuations during the early stages of the universe.

But go ahead... show me your calculations proving that none of this is sufficient. Hell, show me a calculation that demonstrates electromagnetism is sufficient.

But I ask in vain. The Electric Universe crowd can never produce, ever. Nothing ever goes beyond handwaving.

Not an answer.

"EU advocates run the risk of being tried for not being able to explain everything, when sometimes everything is not explainable.

But what EU advocates have done is to present a better explanation for the events that we can see. It is very true that we do no understand some of them, most of them probably. But we keep trying to understand how the universe works, little by little."
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15412

Your straw man calculation with known and unknown assumptions claiming the Electric Sun theory must be wrong and hence the Electric Comet theory too, because the massive charge would explode the sun can easily be saved.

How? just by adding some made up stuff from the mainstream fudge factor store (black holes, dark matter, dark energy ...)

Just need to add a micro black hole in the centre of the Sun that balances the tendency to explode. Simples

What's that I hear you say ... "nonsense" but how is it that that "fix" is any different in principle, from adding the imaginary "black arts" (black holes, dark matter, dark energy ...) to explain the "gravity alone" calculation that says the spinning galaxies would fly apart without some MASSIVE force needed to hold them together ??? ( 96% imaginary stuff to 4% ordinary matter )

Time to apply Occam’s Razor

Occam's razor is often at the root of paradigm shift, where an established theory is replaced by a simpler alternative that also fits the data. For example, Ptolemy's epicycles were replaced by a simpler theory, which explained the data without multiplying elements

Electric Comets --- Electric Sun --- Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology is the best fit to the data and facts we have!

 

[phunk]

Just need to add a micro black hole in the centre of the Sun that balances the tendency to explode. Simples

What are you talking about?

 

[phunk]

To start ...just read and understand this ... Know plasma, know 99.999% of the Universe

I can't find the answer on that page, can you be more specific, perhaps explain it in your own words?

 

[rwguinn]

"EU advocates run the risk of being tried for not being able to explain everythinganything, even when sometimes everything such things are not explainable. easily explained by currently accepted physical theories and observation

...

Fixed your hypothesis for you..

 

[Haig]

Could you explain how EU/PC predicts that result?

What are you talking about?

I can't find the answer on that page, can you be more specific, perhaps explain it in your own words?

Try understanding this ....

Galactic Charge

the apparent anomalous behaviour stems from attractive electrostatic forces between core and periphery.

in PDF http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1409/1409.3096.pdf

VLT telescope reveals mysterious alignment of quasars with the Universe’s large-scale structure

When you look at the Universe on a wide enough scale, you find that the distribution of galaxies is not even, but instead forms a web of clumps and filaments surrounding gigantic near-empty voids. According to the VLT findings, not only are the rotational axes of quasars aligned with each other, but they also tend to be arranged in parallel with this cosmic distribution of material, known as the large-scale structure.

The team estimates that the probability of this being down to chance to be less than one percent, believing instead that the alignment hints at a missing puzzle piece in our current model of the cosmos.

When you think you understand these, then read about the EU / PC theories in the numerous links I've posted before Some HERE. You don't need it in my words theirs are fine. You should get it then, if not ....

The Essential Guide to the Electric Universe

Failing ALL that phunk ... you're on your own

 

[Haig]

An Electric Comet in action disturbing the electromagnetic balance of a planet (surrounded by it's plasma sheath) as it ploughs through the electric field of the Sun.

Mars Spacecraft Reveal Comet Flyby Effects on Martian Atmosphere

Data from observations carried out by MAVEN, NASA’s Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO), and a radar instrument on the European Space Agency’s (ESA’s) Mars Express spacecraft have revealed that debris from the comet added a temporary and very strong layer of ions to the ionosphere, the electrically charged layer high above Mars.

MAVEN also was able to directly sample and determine the composition of some of the comet dust in Mars’ atmosphere. Analysis of these samples by the spacecraft’s Neutral Gas and Ion Mass Spectrometer detected eight different types of metal ions, including sodium, magnesium and iron. These are the first direct measurements of the composition of dust from an Oort Cloud comet.

Elsewhere above Mars, a joint U.S. and Italian instrument on Mars Express observed a huge increase in the density of electrons following the comet’s close approach. This instrument, the Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionospheric Sounding (MARSIS), saw a huge jump in the electron density in the ionosphere a few hours after the comet rendezvous.

MRO’s Shallow Subsurface Radar (SHARAD) also detected the enhanced ionosphere. Images from the instrument were smeared by the passage of the radar signals through the temporary ion layer created by the comet’s dust. SHARAD scientists used this smearing to determine that the electron density of the ionosphere on the planet’s night side, where the observations were made, was five to 10 times higher than usual.

.

"It lit up really bright in the UV band, Huge increase in electron density... yes, this was a noteworthy event"

INCREDIBLE EXPLOSION ON MARS!!

COMET SIDING SPRING UPDATE. Dr.Fritz Helmut Hemmerich made this video from 1200-meters at Tenerife in the Canary Islands showing Comet Siding Spring immediately after its Mars encounter.

 

[pln2bz]

Interesting to note Philae recorded three touch down times, ie it bounced twice.

Still unsure if the harpoons fired or not?

Maybe the harpoons and Philae bounced off this rock stuff they talk about. So both the thruster failed and harpoons failed to anchor.

Still a brilliant achievement and fascinating science.

This might be looking too much into the words chosen to describe the situation, but note the language used by Dr. Hermann Bohnhardt (I’m not allowed to post URL’s apparently) …

Due to an about 10 minutes delay at DLR Cologne in the arrival of the house keeping data from the touch-down, the engineers and scientists there could not follow the relief of excitement at ESOC with the same enthusiams. Trusting is good, but controling is better – and soon after the data had arrived at DLR it was confirmed that the lander had touched ground, but the anchoring harpoons were not shot and the ADS was not fired. Still the people were happy and congratulations were received since the lander seemed to be alive continuing to send housekeeping and science data after the touch-down at the cometary surface.​

Is this an accidental slip of the tongue? Not claiming to know ...

 

[Ziggurat]

"EU advocates run the risk of being tried for not being able to explain everything, when sometimes everything is not explainable.

That's ironic. You think conventional physics should be discarded because you think it can't explain a few things, and you want to replace it with handwaving and ignore the fact that it can explain almost nothing.

But what EU advocates have done is to present a better explanation for the events that we can see.

No, Haig, it's not better. It fails spectacularly at every test.

Your straw man calculation with known and unknown assumptions claiming the Electric Sun theory must be wrong and hence the Electric Comet theory too, because the massive charge would explode the sun can easily be saved.

How? just by adding some made up stuff from the mainstream fudge factor store (black holes, dark matter, dark energy ...)

Your entire justification for EU theories is to avoid such unknowns. Now you admit that you cannot in fact avoid them.

Time to apply Occam’s Razor

But you haven't applied Occam's Razor. You have dropped a theory that produces accurate predictions for almost everything because you don't like some of its hypotheses in favor of a theory which predicts nothing accurately. Occam's Razor doesn't tell you to pick the simpler theory in cases where the simpler theory is wrong.

Electric Comets --- Electric Sun --- Electric Universe / Plasma Cosmology is the best fit to the data and facts we have!

You haven't fit the data at all! You (and everyone else backing EU nonsense) never actually do anything quantitative. You actually have no idea what the consequences of your theory are. And when I confront you with those consequences, you simply deny and claim that it's more accurate, when I just proved that it's not.

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Ziggurat]

Try understanding this ....

Galactic Charge
in PDF http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1409/1409.3096.pdf

Yeah, um... that's the exact paper that I just debunked.

ETA: my absolute favorite detail about that paper? It's written in Comic Sans. Really, quite the gem.

 

[Sol88]

If you were paying attention, instead of just going to your popsicle stand , you would know that comets have a lower albedo than the moon, and teat the images are all altered highly. Pictures are misleading aren't they?

So were is the evidence of comets glowing because of electrical currents?

I think you dont quite understand, let me try and explain.

Overall comets don’t glow they do however "arc" at discrete spots on the surface most usually where we see "jets" emanating from...as observed

So again the comet as a whole do not GLOW, how can they?? Their as black as!!

which was also a BIG surprise for the mainstream...again

 

[Sol88]

Tusenfem has seen the Osiris pictures...he has seen where the jets come from!!

any holes/nozzels? any ice?

 

[Matthew Cline]

The stupidity of the idea comes from not recognizing that you can't just bunch like charge together like you can bunch mass together. If you spread that charge around throughout the galaxy, (which is an awfully big place), it's not that much. ... But since stars have masses which are INCREDIBLY concentrated compared to the galactic average, this theory demands that they have charges which are correspondingly concentrated.

IIRC, some EU proponents have proposed something similar to "the galaxy's electromagnetic forces accelerate the interstellar matter surrounding the Sun, and that matter then drags the Sun along with it". I don't know enough physics to be able to evaluate such a claim.

 

[JeanTate]

Is there something other than an hour and a half of YouTube video that explains the "electric comet" theory? Or can post the Cliff notes version for me? I thought I understood the idea but the blithering and snipping around here reduces readability for others.

Haig actually posted something which contains the Cliff notes, and every one of the eight items specific to the "Electric Comet Model" is inconsistent with astronomical observations. As several other members have been at pains to point out. For a long time now.

Perhaps more interesting is this (from Haig's source) "The electric comet model does not stand alone but in partnership with another hypothesis - the electric Sun." This "electric Sun" is curious ... in it the Sun is an anode, or a cathode, or a capacitor, or ... Oddly, you cannot find any 'electric Sun' calculations, certainly none which claim to show that the Sun's energy output (in electromagnetic radiation) is close to what we observe (including its constancy), much less its SED (spectral energy distribution).

But maybe Haig has more material which he has not posted; perhaps he can point us all to a source in which the following is at least bounded, quantitatively? "Comets follow their elongated paths within a weak electrical field centered on the Sun. In approaching the Sun, a charge imbalance develops between the nucleus and the higher voltage and charge density near the Sun. Growing electrical stresses initiate discharges and the formation of a glowing plasma sheath, appearing as the coma and tail."

 

[Sol88]

Haig actually posted something which contains the Cliff notes, and every one of the eight items specific to the "Electric Comet Model" is inconsistent with astronomical observations. As several other members have been at pains to point out. For a long time now.

Perhaps more interesting is this (from Haig's source) "The electric comet model does not stand alone but in partnership with another hypothesis - the electric Sun." This "electric Sun" is curious ... in it the Sun is an anode, or a cathode, or a capacitor, or ... Oddly, you cannot find any 'electric Sun' calculations, certainly none which claim to show that the Sun's energy output (in electromagnetic radiation) is close to what we observe (including its constancy), much less its SED (spectral energy distribution).

But maybe Haig has more material which he has not posted; perhaps he can point us all to a source in which the following is at least bounded, quantitatively? "Comets follow their elongated paths within a weak electrical field centered on the Sun. In approaching the Sun, a charge imbalance develops between the nucleus and the higher voltage and charge density near the Sun. Growing electrical stresses initiate discharges and the formation of a glowing plasma sheath, appearing as the coma and tail."

Hi JeanTate, they already know where the jets eminate from but will not release the images because the team that announce this "discovery" will over turn science as we have known it!!

A lot riding on their shoulders

As Haig as stated it's more than just an electric comets at stake and thats why the mainstream are in a flap...

 

[phunk]

Just need to add a micro black hole in the centre of the Sun that balances the tendency to explode. Simples

What are you talking about?

You seem to have ignored this. Where is this "black hole in the center of the sun" nonsense coming from?

 

[Sol88]

Playing devils advocate here but lets just say for ***** n giggles that the ELECTRIC COMET thoery is a non starter as stated many a time by the posters in this thread.

but at the same time the data coming back is confirming the dirtysnowball has some large holes in it, hard and dry is not a dirtysnowball make!

What then would comets be?

I am interested on how mainstream are going to spin the data from Rosetta and Philae

 

[Sol88]

You seem to have ignored this. Where is this "black hole in the center of the sun" nonsense coming from?

Mainstream mantra, when in doubt add more mass! you dont even have to be able to see it! it can remain dark.

Look how much you had to add to stop galaxies from flying apart!!! 75% of the known universe

add just as a point in hand, which G do you use for calculating anything to do with G???

seems you can cnange the universal gravitational constant to more or less suite!!!

so of course your maths is corect, you can just change it to suite whatever problem your working on sweet!

 

[phunk]

Try understanding this ....

Galactic Charge
in PDF http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1409/1409.3096.pdf

VLT telescope reveals mysterious alignment of quasars with the Universe’s large-scale structure

That joke of a paper on galactic charge does not predict the alignment of quasars, which is what I was asking. So again, what part of EC/PC theories predicts it?