Merged The Electric Comet Theory Part III/SAFIRE

[Sol88]

which could either be silicatic grains, implying the thermal degradation of the carbonaceous material, or icy grains.

Or?

Silicatic grains can be confused as icy grains?

Mmmmmm......

 

[Sol88]

Huh? Care to enlighten us a little more? I assume this is more "evidence" for the EC model?

For those interested in the actual article here is the link to grl (paywalled, pdf available)

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment


So 'ice' need not be hidden under the rock/dust layer!

Shall we head down that rabbit hole?

How much dust to snuff out 'sublimation'? Thermal modelling of water activity on comet doi:10.1093/mnras/stx1607 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko with global dust mantle and plural dust-to-ice ratio

Or indeed the 'dust' can be lifted by sublimating gas? Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

 

[Sol88]

Lest we forget (and I can't be bothered with refs, because they've been done soooo many times);
The comet isn't rock (MIRO, CONSERT, plus orbital measurements, plus the 9P impact).
There IS H₂O, as has been well known since 1985 (KAO), plus umpteen other detections.
There is no electric woo. As (not) measured. As per, for instance, the diamagnetic cavity at 1P and 67P. No magnetic field = (fill in as necessary).

To finish, without writing 5000 words, the electric comet woo has been shown to be total woo, as expected, by numerous missions to comets, as well as distant observations of such. It is nonsense. It is cretinous nonsense, in fact. It has ceased to be. It is an ex-idiotic idea. It has gone to meet the choir invisible. It is an ex idea.
Goodnight Polly. Bye bye David. Tata Wal. Try better next time. Loons.

Magnetic field??

We are after the electric field?

Which has been confirmed on 67p. Effective ion speeds at ~200-250 km from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko near perihelion

ABSTRACT In August 2015, comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, the target comet of the ESA Rosetta mission, reached its perihelion at ~1.24 AU. Here we estimate for a three-day period near perihelion, effective ion speeds at distances ~200-250 km from the nucleus. We utilize two different methods combining measurements from the Rosetta Plasma Consortium (RPC)/ Mutual Impedance Probe (MIP) with measurements either from the RPC/Langmuir Probe (LAP) or from the Rosetta Orbiter Spectrometer for Ion and Neutral Analysis (ROSINA)/Comet Pressure Sensor (COPS) (the latter method can only be applied to estimate the effective ion drift speed). The obtained ion speeds, typically in the range 2-8 km s-1, are markedly higher than the expected neutral outflow velocity of ~1 km s-1. This indicates that the ions were de-coupled from the neutrals before reaching the spacecraft location and that they had undergone acceleration along electric fields, not necessarily limited to acceleration along ambipolar electric fields in the radial direction. For the limited time period studied we see indications that at increasing distances from the nucleus the fraction of the ions’ kinetic energy associated with radial drift motion is decreasing.

But telling is

Making assumptions of collisionally coupled ions ease some of the complexity of ionospheric modelling as the influence of electromagnetic fields then is neglected.

Math to hard now!

 

[tusenfem]

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment


So 'ice' need not be hidden under the rock/dust layer!

Apparently you cannot read, but that was already widely known.
The plasma does not magically create the water that turns into ice grains.
As described in the paper:

Figure 1 is a schematic sketch of our apparatus which differs from that used by Shimizu et al. [2010] by having direct injection of water vapor

and then they (and others) find that ice grains can be created, as the plasma temperature is low and the pressure is low (you know you can boil and freeze water at the same time if you lower the pressure at room temperature, we do it all the time in the lab for people visiting the labs, next to blowing up marshmellows), and interestingly in this case they are non-spherical.

no rabbit hole, it's just that you don't understand physics (nobody is perfect) and you just make up your own stories.

 

[Sol88]

Apparently you cannot read, but that was already widely known.
The plasma does not magically create the water that turns into ice grains.
As described in the paper:



and then they (and others) find that ice grains can be created, as the plasma temperature is low and the pressure is low (you know you can boil and freeze water at the same time if you lower the pressure at room temperature, we do it all the time in the lab for people visiting the labs, next to blowing up marshmellows), and interestingly in this case they are non-spherical.

no rabbit hole, it's just that you don't understand physics (nobody is perfect) and you just make up your own stories.

Is that you, Reality Check?


Seems there IS water vapour at a comet, produced thru various electrochemical means. As the electric comet mob bang on about.

It's just interesting in the context of charged dust and complex dusty plasma.

 

[tusenfem]

Is that you, Reality Check?

no it is tusenfem

Seems there IS water vapour at a comet, produced thru various electrochemical means. As the electric comet mob bang on about.

Care to present actual proof for this statement?

 

[ferd burfle]

Seems there IS water vapour at a comet, produced thru various electrochemical means. As the electric comet mob bang on about.

Please describe the electrolyte in this electrochemical reaction.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Cites and lies about a mainstream paper not about his comet delusions

I pick B, ice!

We pick:
11 September 2017 Sol88: Cites and lies about a mainstream paper not about his comet delusions !
Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment

Saturn's rings, terrestrial polar mesospheric clouds, and astrophysical molecular clouds are all dusty plasma environments where tiny grains of water ice are an important constituent.
...
Plasmas containing water ice grains are ubiquitous. Examples include certain of Saturn's rings [Goertz, 1989], terrestrial polar mesospheric clouds [Havnes et al., 1996], astrophysical molecular clouds [McClure et al., 2012], and comet tails [Davies et al., 1997].

The only relevance is comet tails where this mainstream paper has the empirically supported origin of water from a comet nucleus made of ices and dust.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Repeated idiocy of citing a mainstream comets are ices and dust paper

Comet 67P outbursts and quiescent coma at 1.3 AU from the Sun: dust properties from Rosetta/VIRTIS-H observations

11 September 2017 Sol88: Repeated idiocy of citing a mainstream comets are ices and dust paper.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Ignorant fantasy that silicatic or icy grains supports his comet delusions

Silicatic grains can be confused as icy grains?

11 September 2017 Sol88: Ignorant fantasy that silicatic or icy grains in a comets are ices and dust paper supports his comet delusions.

A lie by citing the ices + dust paper with quote mining (pointed out by tusenfem).
The paper is about Comet 67P outbursts.
Comet 67P outbursts and quiescent coma at 1.3 AU from the Sun: dust properties from Rosetta/VIRTIS-H observations
The observation is

In addition, the measured large bolometric albedos (∼0.7) indicate bright grains in the ejecta, which could either be silicatic grains, implying the thermal degradation of the carbonaceous material, or icy grains. The 3 μm absorption band from water ice is not detected in the spectra acquired during the outbursts, whereas signatures of organic compounds near 3.4 μm are observed in emission. The H2O 2.7 μm and CO2 4.3 μm vibrational bands do not show any enhancement during the outbursts.

The albedos are from bright grains that can be silicatic or icy or both.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Repeats the citation and lie about a mainstream paper

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment

11 September 2017 Sol88: Repeats the citation and lie about a mainstream paper not about his comet delusions.
The paper mentions comet tails formed from mainstream ices + dust nuclei.

11 September 2017 Sol88: Cites and lies about a mainstream water activity paper not about his comet delusions.
Thermal modelling of water activity on comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko with global dust mantle and plural dust-to-ice ratio

We apply the thermal models to investigate the impact of certain parameters of nucleus properties on water production. It is found that the measured water production of 67P can be overall attributed to sublimation of water ice with a mass abundance of a few to 10 per cent beneath a uniform dust mantle of several millimetres to one centimetre in thickness. Insofar as 67P is concerned, we argue against the necessity to invoke assumptions on localized water activity, or on the distinction of active/dormant surface areas.

He lies with 'sublimation' when the paper is about sublimation

11 September 2017 Sol88: Cites and lies about the mainstream near-surface ice paper again.
Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: A "We are after the electric field?" being confirmed lie

We are after the electric field?

11 September 2017 Sol88: A "We are after the electric field?" being confirmed lie.
He cannot even understand his own delusions about comets which demand an electric field around the Sun !

11 September 2017 Sol88: Cites and lies about a mainstream ion speeds paper not supporting his comet delusions.
Effective ion speeds at ~200-250 km from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko near perihelion has the expected acceleration of ions by electric fields within the comet coma. The lie is that this is his delusion of a solar electric field.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: A lie of water vapor being produced by "various electrochemical means"

Seems there IS water vapour at a comet, produced thru various electrochemical means.

11 September 2017 Sol88: A lie of water vapor being produced by "various electrochemical means".
The paper he is lying about is non-spherical water grains produced in the lab by injecting water vapor into a low pressure and temperature plasma as tusenfem told him.

Apparently you cannot read, but that was already widely known.
The plasma does not magically create the water that turns into ice grains.
As described in the paper:

and then they (and others) find that ice grains can be created, as the plasma temperature is low and the pressure is low (you know you can boil and freeze water at the same time if you lower the pressure at room temperature, we do it all the time in the lab for people visiting the labs, next to blowing up marshmellows), and interestingly in this case they are non-spherical.

no rabbit hole, it's just that you don't understand physics (nobody is perfect) and you just make up your own stories.

 

[jonesdave116]

Magnetic field??

We are after the electric field?

Which has been confirmed on 67p. Effective ion speeds at ~200-250 km from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko near perihelion



But telling is

Math to hard now!

Err, sorry? What are you on about now? Lol.

 

[jonesdave116]

Let us put this out there, for the hard of thinking;
According to the idiot Thornhill:

“The cathode jets strip and ionize atoms of oxygen from minerals on the comet and accelerate the negative ions away in a fine jet. The oxygen ions then combine with the protons in the solar wind to form the hydroxyl radical, OH, which was mistakenly assumed to be evidence of an ultraviolet breakdown product of water molecules from the comet. Oxygen and hydrogen have both been found in the comet’s coma, by the Rosetta ultraviolet spectrometer.”

Scientifically impossible. Anybody disagree? What does the idiot think was found by the KAO at IR wavelengths that can only be water, back in 1985? At Halley? What does this uneducated loon think is found at ~ 557 GHz at comets? By ODIN, or Rosetta? The bloke is an idiot. Yes? Can we stop discussing this lunatic's idiotic nonsense? The bloke is a jerk. As are his uneducated followers.
Anybody got anything scientific to say?

 

[jonesdave116]

Or?

Silicatic grains can be confused as icy grains?

Mmmmmm......

No, dummy. Just no. Dear me. Absorption. Emission. Dear, they tell you what the product you are looking at actually is. Yes? Jesus H. Christ. How hard can this be?
tl;dr; get an education.

 

[jonesdave116]

Seems there IS water vapour at a comet, produced thru various electrochemical means. As the electric comet mob bang on about.

Hahahahahahahha. Hahaha. Deary me. The 'electric comet mob' are a bunch of no nothing eejits, yes? Please, do tell us, scientifically, how solar wind H⁺ combines with non-existent O^- to form OH? And then you can go on to tell us how this gets mistaken as H₂O, by people who are far more educated than you, or the idiot Thornhill? Yes? That would be a good start. Yes? It is scientifically illiterate nonsense. Isn't it, dear? Complete garbage. From a stupid Aussie burke who wouldn't know his arse from his elbow. N'est-ce pas?
Conman. Ever heard the word, Sol? That is who you follow. A complete pudding, with zero scientific knowledge.
Now; stop polluting this board with your idiotic, unscientific crap. Please.

 

[Sol88]

@Tusenfem

How's the tail excursion paper coming? Champing at the bit for a gander.

 

[Sol88]

Hahahahahahahha. Hahaha. Deary me. The 'electric comet mob' are a bunch of no nothing eejits, yes? Please, do tell us, scientifically, how solar wind H⁺ combines with non-existent O^- to form OH? And then you can go on to tell us how this gets mistaken as H₂O, by people who are far more educated than you, or the idiot Thornhill? Yes? That would be a good start. Yes? It is scientifically illiterate nonsense. Isn't it, dear? Complete garbage. From a stupid Aussie burke who wouldn't know his arse from his elbow. N'est-ce pas?
Conman. Ever heard the word, Sol? That is who you follow. A complete pudding, with zero scientific knowledge.
Now; stop polluting this board with your idiotic, unscientific crap. Please.

Yeah, those dropkicks, ay!

Well now there just kick'n back watching the "mainstream" confirm the theory for them

The evidence for the dominate electrical activity is now overwhelming.

Whipple's model is dead in the water and it's all the 'mainstreamers' had.

Still can't work out how the "jets" work eh?

 

[Sol88]

Hahahahahahahha. Hahaha. Deary me. The 'electric comet mob' are a bunch of no nothing eejits, yes? Please, do tell us, scientifically, how solar wind H⁺ combines with non-existent O^- to form OH? And then you can go on to tell us how this gets mistaken as H₂O, by people who are far more educated than you, or the idiot Thornhill? Yes? That would be a good start. Yes? It is scientifically illiterate nonsense. Isn't it, dear? Complete garbage. From a stupid Aussie burke who wouldn't know his arse from his elbow. N'est-ce pas?
Conman. Ever heard the word, Sol? That is who you follow. A complete pudding, with zero scientific knowledge.
Now; stop polluting this board with your idiotic, unscientific crap. Please.

Your back of the envelope calculation is crap