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The dreaded "A" word

DGM said:
You don't believe in a "Cause, nature, and purpose of the universe"?

Odd. :confused:
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No, the universe does not have a nature or purpose, it just is. You are imbuing the universe with a personality like a living being. Do you view the universe as a big daddy?
 
MikeG said:
OK, thanks for that. You don't see any of those around here. However, I do have a National Trust membership sticker on my windscreen. Does that count?

Mike

PS The National Trust is the organisation which maintains precious buildings (country houses, castles and the like) on behalf of the nation.
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You worship old buildings and your nation!
You pray for old buildings and your nation!
You attend to rituals commanded by priests of the old buildings and your nation!
You have faith in old buildings and your nation!
Old buildings and your nation are, for you, supernatural and spiritual entities!
 
Correa Neto said:
You worship old buildings and your nation!
You pray for old buildings and your nation!
You attend to rituals commanded by priests of the old buildings and your nation!
You have faith in old buildings and your nation!
Old buildings and your nation are, for you, supernatural and spiritual entities!
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:D

Oh, I see. So I am actually religious after all? Thanks! There I was in the darkness, thinking I didn't worship anything, when all along I was a rabid theist! Well, you could knock me down with a feather......DGM, seems you were right all along.
 
MikeG said:
:D

Oh, I see. So I am actually religious after all? Thanks! There I was in the darkness, thinking I didn't worship anything, when all along I was a rabid theist! Well, you could knock me down with a feather......DGM, seems you were right all along.
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You worship the belief that Atheism is not a religion. If not, there wouldn't be as many post defending this belief.
 
DGM said:
You worship the belief that Atheism is not a religion. If not, there wouldn't be as many post defending this belief.
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I think that is about the 11th or 12th time you've spouted this tosh. If you keep saying something over and over again, sooner or later it becomes fact, doesn't it? Exactly how many times will that take?
 
MikeG said:
I think that is about the 11th or 12th time you've spouted this tosh. If you keep saying something over and over again, sooner or later it becomes fact, doesn't it? Exactly how many times will that take?
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I started this by saying Atheists seem to be more vocal about defending their religion than <insert whatever religion you want>. Strange, somehow your belief trumps that of others.

A couple pages later, You're still arguing you're not a religion. Whatever floats your boat.
 
tsig said:
QED
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What does quantum electrodynamics have to do with topic?

I ask because you obviously can't be using QED as an abbreviation for quod erat demonstradum, because stating that the assertion that atheism is either the negation of a belief in the existence of the supernatural or or a belief in the negation of the existence of the supernatural is still a belief is valid and exposes the unsoundness the argument that atheism is fundamentally different from theism due to its defining lack of belief. That is, of course, unless you are arguing that the negation of a belief is not also a belief.
 
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MikeG said:
:D

Oh, I see. So I am actually religious after all? Thanks! There I was in the darkness, thinking I didn't worship anything, when all along I was a rabid theist! Well, you could knock me down with a feather......DGM, seems you were right all along.
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Oh, sure, because you know, belief, so it seems, is also equal to religion. So, for example, if you believe historic buildings, natural areas or old cars must be preserved, then you are religious...

DAMN! I just found I am religious, too. Polyreligious, actually, for besides believing in the preservation in human and environmental heritage, I also believe my son will be a good human being, among many other things.

Now, if you excuse me, I have to attend to countless Sunday rites, one for each religion I was not aware I followed.

Learned lots of things today... Guess that's the "E" at JREF being justified...:rolleyes:
 
mijopaalmc said:
I ask because you obviously can't be using QED as an abbreviation for quod erat demonstradum, because stating that the assertion that atheism is either the negation of a belief in the existence of the supernatural or or a belief in the negation of the existence of the supernatural is still a belief is valid and exposes the unsoundness the argument that atheism is fundamentally different from theism due to its defining lack of belief. That is, of course, unless you are arguing that the negation of a belief is not also a belief.
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Or, of course, you could have failed to understand a childishly simple posting in which Tsig showed what the common tactic of theists was (altering "atheists do not believe ..." to "atheists believe there is no......."). In which case quod erat demonstradum is exactly the right phrase, because you theists went straight on and did exactly what he said you do. It was a bit of a classic actually, but you can't/ won't see it.

Mike
 
DGM said:
So, there could be a "God"?
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Ah, we're getting there, at last! Woo hoo!!!!!!

Provide me with some evidence, and I'll consider the case for a god. That's the way it works....
 
DGM said:
You worship the belief that Atheism is not a religion. If not, there wouldn't be as many post defending this belief.
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So then if someone thinks that statement is nonsense, would you then claim that they worship the belief that the belief that Atheism is not a religion, is not a religion?

Seriously though, that's the most interesting use of the word "worship" I've seen today. And by "interesting," I mean "completely divorced from what the word actually means."
 
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MikeG said:
Or, of course, you could have failed to understand a childishly simple posting in which Tsig showed what the common tactic of theists was (altering "atheists do not believe ..." to "atheists believe there is no......."). In which case quod erat demonstradum is exactly the right phrase, because you theists went straight on and did exactly what he said you do. It was a bit of a classic actually, but you can't/ won't see it.

Mike
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And you could have noticed that tsig's argument is predicated on the premise that "not believing" and "believing not" are not the same type of statement insofar as the former indicates the lack of belief whereas the latter indicates the presences of belief. He merely asserted the premise and reasoned from there, without attempting a cursory justification of the idea that the negation of a belief is not a belief itself.

The issue is, of course, that some atheists want to define atheism as "the lack of a belief in the supernatural" and to claim that they don't have to justify the statement "I don't believe in the existence of the supernatural" because they claim that lack of belief is the default state. Whether lack of belief is an empirically demonstrable "default state", the deduction that "lack of belief" is a syntatic and semantic consequence of "denial of belief" is not established. Rather, "denial of belief" is a fortiori "lack of belief", which is a false substiution at best.
 
MikeG said:
Ah, we're getting there, at last! Woo hoo!!!!!!

Provide me with some evidence, and I'll consider the case for a god. That's the way it works....
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Would that be for your belief there is not? First you need to define "God". That's the tough one.

Exactly what is this and how did you determine there is none? For me. "God" is in the details. :)
 
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