The Dogger Bank Incident.

[catsmate]

The aftermath of such a conflict would be interesting -

Japan likely with large parts of Siberia is less likely to get involved in adventurism in southern China as their military would be tied up securing the "Northern Resource Area";
There is every possibility that the Austro-Hungarian and the Ottoman Empires could keep creaking along for a number of years before internal pressures cause their collapse - and without Sykes-Picot, et al. the Middle East would be very different;
The Dominions remain so - the absence of their superb battlefield performance in WWI removes the impetus to pass the Treaties of Westminister that confirmed the independence of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Newfoundland, and South Africa in matters of foreign policy, et al. and that political chapter doesn't get written til later or in the same manner.

Don't forget Ireland. A Home Rule Bill probably passes, eventually, after an equivalent neutering of the House of Lords as per the Parliament Act of 1911. Of course without WW1 it's actually implemented...

 

[KDLarsen]

The aftermath of such a conflict would be interesting.

Equally interesting for those of us not directly involved in the later conflict. No crushing German defeat(?) leading to a Treaty of Versailles. This is turns leads to no Schleswig Plebiscites and thus, no Easter Crisis of 1920, which was the closest the Danish monarchy has ever been to being removed.

On the other hand, no Easter Crisis means that the Danish monarch didn't learn the hard way, that an acting monarch no longer fit the times.

 

[Border Reiver]

Don't forget Ireland. A Home Rule Bill probably passes, eventually, after an equivalent neutering of the House of Lords as per the Parliament Act of 1911. Of course without WW1 it's actually implemented...

Ireland - how could I forget Ireland?

As an alt history concept we might be looking at Kaiser Georg Frederich of Germany, Kaiser Karl Hapsburg, et al and a host of cousins wondering when Charles Saxe-Cobourg Gotha will assume his duties after his mother dies

 

[catsmate]

Ireland - how could I forget Ireland?

Hopefully it'll end up more peaceful than historically.

As an alt history concept we might be looking at Kaiser Georg Frederich of Germany, Kaiser Karl Hapsburg, et al and a host of cousins wondering when Charles Saxe-Cobourg Gotha will assume his duties after his mother dies

 

[Craig B]

Equally interesting for those of us not directly involved in the later conflict. No crushing German defeat(?) leading to a Treaty of Versailles. This is turns leads to no Schleswig Plebiscites and thus, no Easter Crisis of 1920, which was the closest the Danish monarchy has ever been to being removed.

On the other hand, no Easter Crisis means that the Danish monarch didn't learn the hard way, that an acting monarch no longer fit the times.

The Danes would probably have got rid of the King, but appointed another one and kept the monarchy, as the Belgians did with Leopold III. Churchill said of Leopold

He is like the Bourbons, he has learned nothing and forgotten everything

But that can't be said of Christian X, of whom Wiki states that

Following the crisis, Christian X accepted his drastically reduced role as symbolic head of state.

After that he behaved quite well; better than Leopold did, during the German occupation.

 

[Craig B]

Ireland - how could I forget Ireland?

As an alt history concept we might be looking at Kaiser Georg Frederich of Germany, Kaiser Karl Hapsburg, et al and a host of cousins wondering when Charles Saxe-Cobourg Gotha will assume his duties after his mother dies

You mean, Charles Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, if he used his father's original surname.

It would need to be that, because Saxe-Coburg Gotha was Edward VII's father's name.

If our queen was a commoner, she'd be called Betty Glucksburg. I like that.

 

[ddt]

You mean, Charles Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, if he used his father's original surname.

It would need to be that, because Saxe-Coburg Gotha was Edward VII's father's name.

If our queen was a commoner, she'd be called Betty Glucksburg. I like that.

Betty Battenberg also has a nice ring to it. But would Philip have renounced his original name without WW1? In any case, he would feel more human about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor:

Philip privately complained, "I am nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his own children."

 

[Craig B]

Betty Battenberg also has a nice ring to it. But would Philip have renounced his original name without WW1? In any case, he would feel more human about it.

His present surname Mountbatten is an anglicisation of the German name Battenberg, and this transformation was a result of the Great War.

Prince Louis of Battenberg became the First Sea Lord of the Royal Navy. Due to anti-German feelings prevalent in Britain during World War I, he anglicised his name to Mountbatten, as did his children and nephews, the sons of Prince Henry and Princess Beatrice. They renounced all German titles ... Prince Philippos of Greece and Denmark (now Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh), married the heiress presumptive of the British throne, later Elizabeth II, after having renounced his Greek titles and taken his grandfather's and uncle's surname, Mountbatten.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battenberg_family

So Philip's surname in its present form owes everything to that war. In the event of the UK having been the enemy of France and Russia rather than Germany in an alternate Great War, he might well have continued to use as a surname the names of various chunks of the German Empire.

 

[ddt]

His present surname Mountbatten is an anglicisation of the German name Battenberg, and this transformation was a result of the Great War. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battenberg_family

So Philip's surname in its present form owes everything to that war. In the event of the UK having been the enemy of France and Russia rather than Germany in an alternate Great War, he might well have continued to use as a surname the names of various chunks of the German Empire.

Indeed. His 1947 change of name was inspired by the circumstances that led to the 1917 mass change of German noble names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor:

However, not wishing to repeat the difficulties of three decades previous, Philip, a few months before his marriage, renounced his princely titles and adopted the surname Mountbatten, which was that of his uncle and mentor, Lord Mountbatten of Burma, and itself was adopted by the Viscount's father (Philip's maternal grandfather), Prince Louis of Battenberg, in 1917. It is the literal translation of the German Battenberg, which refers to Battenberg, a small town in Hesse.

As irony wants it, all those English peers who renounced their German noble titles in 1917 would have lost them anyway two years later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nobility:

All legal privileges of the nobility were officially abolished in 1919 by the Weimar Republic (1919-1933), and nobility is no longer conferred or recognised by the Federal Republic of Germany, former hereditary titles being allowed only as part of the surname.

 

[dudalb]

The whole voyage of the Russian Baltic Fleet to the Pacific was one disaster after another.
My own favorite incident was, when coaling off the coast of Africa, a number of alligators took up residence in the holds of the ships

 

[Craig B]

The whole voyage of the Russian Baltic Fleet to the Pacific was one disaster after another.
My own favorite incident was, when coaling off the coast of Africa, a number of alligators took up residence in the holds of the ships

There was also a snake that bit the commander. He survived. Some merriment was provided by the fleet repair vessel Kamchatka.

For good measure the fleet repair ship "Kamchatka" signaled that she was under attack by torpedo boats. When asked how many she replied "about eight from all directions". This was a false alarm ... The main fleet then approached Tangier having lost contact with the "Kamchatka" for some days. The "Kamchatka" eventually rejoined the fleet reporting that she had fired 300 shells in an engagement with three Japanese ships - the enemy vessels were actually a Swedish merchantman, a German trawler and a French schooner.

None of these "opponents" were sunk by the Kamchatka's salvos.

Having been quiet for some days, the "Kamchatka" sent a new wave of panic throughout the fleet when she sent the wrong signal during a storm off the coast of Angola. Instead of issuing the code "We are all right now" the message "Do you see torpedo boats" was signaled.

Other vessels had problems too.

... the cooling plant on the "Esperance", the fleet's refrigerated supply ship, broke down. A lot of rotting meat had to be jettisoned which resulted in the fleet being followed by sharks.

http://www.hullwebs.co.uk/content/l-20c/disaster/dogger-bank/voyage-of-dammed.htm

 

[ddt]

http://www.hullwebs.co.uk/content/l-20c/disaster/dogger-bank/voyage-of-dammed.htm

If someone would write a novel with such a plot, critics would lambast it as too bizarre to be credible.

I wonder, though, how they managed to hit three Japanese ships at Tsushima when they didn't even manage to hit trawlers or freighters? Or were those Japanese losses from friendly fire?

 

[Craig B]

If someone would write a novel with such a plot, critics would lambast it as too bizarre to be credible.

I wonder, though, how they managed to hit three Japanese ships at Tsushima when they didn't even manage to hit trawlers or freighters? Or were those Japanese losses from friendly fire?

I think some of the Russian ships had new gun sights installed during the course of the voyage. But I can't find a reference. Up to that time many did not have telescopic gun sights, I believe. The Japanese were more up to date and their guns could be fired centrally, while the Russians fired them individually by lanyard. I don't know if these improvements, assuming my memory is correct, account for the Russian hits on Japanese ships in the opening salvoes of the battle.

 

[anglolawyer]

From the OP

The fact that the incident occurred on the 99th anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar rather exacerbated matters.

Why?

 

[catsmate]

I think some of the Russian ships had new gun sights installed during the course of the voyage. But I can't find a reference. Up to that time many did not have telescopic gun sights, I believe. The Japanese were more up to date and their guns could be fired centrally, while the Russians fired them individually by lanyard. I don't know if these improvements, assuming my memory is correct, account for the Russian hits on Japanese ships in the opening salvoes of the battle.

Well they got enough practice, maybe their gunnery skills improved...

Before the war it seems that Russian warships weren't fitted with rangefinders; these (Barr & Stroud models) were fitted to a number of Rozhestvensky's ships in the preparations for the voyage, as were Krilov telescopic sights. However the crews were inexperienced with their use.
Certainly there were disputes between Russian commander (who opposed central fire control) and the gunnery officers (who favoured it, and longer engagement ranges).

The Russians did experience problems with the fuses of their shells, and a high dud rate during the war. This may have been down to their use of wet guncotten and a filler and excessive moisture content to compensate for expected evaporation.

From the OP


Why?

I'm not actually sure. Perhaps it was the juxtaposition of the anniversary of the great naval victory and this seemingly provocative Russian action. It's certainly mentioned in period writings.

 

[anglolawyer]

snip

I'm not actually sure. Perhaps it was the juxtaposition of the anniversary of the great naval victory and this seemingly provocative Russian action. It's certainly mentioned in period writings.

Thanks. Just seemed a bit weird: 'Fine, you can shoot at out fishermen on any other day but not on the 99th anniversary of Trafalgar for Crissake'.

 

[ddt]

Thanks. Just seemed a bit weird: 'Fine, you can shoot at out fishermen on any other day but not on the 99th anniversary of Trafalgar for Crissake'.

Note that catsmate only said "exacerbated". I can imagine that the whole country was, on Trafalgar Day, in a gung-ho, "we have the best Navy in the world" atmosphere, so that the obvious reaction is "we'll teach them a lesson they won't forget".

 

[catsmate]

Note that catsmate only said "exacerbated". I can imagine that the whole country was, on Trafalgar Day, in a gung-ho, "we have the best Navy in the world" atmosphere, so that the obvious reaction is "we'll teach them a lesson they won't forget".

I think this is a better summary than mine.
In fact the Russian Ambassador, Count Benckendorff, was actually booed in the street while walking from his Embassy to the Foreign Office on the morning of the 22nd.