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The DeSantis gambit

Disney uses Gov. Ron DeSantis’ own words against him in amended lawsuit

https://clutchpoints.com/disney-uses-desantis-words-against-him-amended-lawsuit
Disney filed the original lawsuit last week after the state legislature dissolved The Walt Disney Company’s long-standing development deal that had been in effect for the past 30 years. Disney’s grounds for the lawsuit were that Gov. DeSantis voided that development deal — and with it Disney’s special authority to self-govern its Florida theme park district — for personal, retaliatory reasons after Disney opposed the governor’s so-called “Don’t Say Gay” bill.

DeSantis confirmed as much in statements last week, so Disney gladly added those words to its amended lawsuit. At the very top of the new filing’s introduction, Disney quotes Gov. DeSantis’ words from May 5: “[T]his all started, of course, with our parents’ rights bill.”
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The amended complaint; https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Amended-Complaint1-1.pdf
 
Norman Alexander said:
I don't understand why Ron, who is supposedly a Harvard-trained lawyer with experience, is so intent on shooting himself in the foot all the time.
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Going to Harvard doesn't necessarily equate to intelligence. As with other name universities, Harvard qualifies an awful lot of stupid people, especially when donations are involved.
 
I suspect that DeSantis is trying to out-Trump Trump, but even if he is probably smarter than Trump, DeSantis doesn't have the decades of experience in being an entitled idiot.
 
I suspect that DeSantis would love for the courts to reverse the stupid things he spearheaded against Disney. It'll allow him to claim that he stood up against a "woke" company while a) letting Disney get back to work attracting tourists and making money in Florida and b) giving DeSantis an opportunity to rile up his audience by complaining about the court decisions. It is all about keeping his support base angry. A win wouldn't do that.
 
Hey, what happened to all the folks claiming this wasn't about the "Don't Say Gay" bill?
 
Stacyhs said:
Just like Trump, DeSantis doesn't know when to shut up.
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The thread title says it right, it's a gambit.

DeSantis is using his role as governor as a platform for national office. He doesn't care if he saddles Florida with legal woes and debt getting in a punch-out with Disney, that's a problem for Florida of the near future and he doesn't plan to be around to deal with it. DeSantis drinks and Florida gets the hangover.

It kinda sucks to have a governor running for president, because often they'll salt the earth in their home state if it means getting them the next job. DeSantis is doing what reactionaries in this country want, he's punishing libs for being libs. Right wing freaks are tired of seeing black people and queers on TV, and DeSantis is taking Disney to task for it to thundering applause.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
The thread title says it right, it's a gambit.

DeSantis is using his role as governor as a platform for national office. He doesn't care if he saddles Florida with legal woes and debt getting in a punch-out with Disney, that's a problem for Florida of the near future and he doesn't plan to be around to deal with it.
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By debt, are you talking about the RCID bonds? Because Florida is never going to be on the hook for those bonds no matter what happens. Those bonds will always and only ever be payable by taxing Disney. The stories in the press suggesting otherwise were wrong, and if you pay attention to the dates, you'll see that they're mostly from last year. That line of attack has dried up as more people clued in to the legal realities.

But it gets worse. Want to know why Disney didn't sue CFTOD directly, even though they're the ones who declared the previous development agreement null and void? Because of what happens if there's a problem with the bonds, which CFTOD took over. If there's a problem with CFTOD or the bonds, those bonds don't become Florida general liability. Rather, bondholders can call the bonds and demand immediate payment. And again, that money can only come from property owners within CFTOD. That means that Disney would need to pay off those bonds immediately, or face a lien on its property within the district.

As for legal costs, well, that's kind of amusing too. You see, CFTOD is involved in this legal battle, and they've got to pay their lawyers too. But where does the money that CFTOD spends come from? It doesn't come from Florida's general budget. No, it comes from revenue raised within that district. In other words, it comes from taxes on Disney. Disney is going to pay to have CFTOD fight itself.

And lastly, I don't think you grasp how precarious Disney's legal position actually is. Their entire case may fall apart because of a failure to mail out notices. But that's far from the only vulnerability in their position. Disney is vulnerable here. They don't actually have the high ground.
 
Ziggurat said:
By debt, are you talking about the RCID bonds? Because Florida is never going to be on the hook for those bonds no matter what happens. Those bonds will always and only ever be payable by taxing Disney. The stories in the press suggesting otherwise were wrong, and if you pay attention to the dates, you'll see that they're mostly from last year. That line of attack has dried up as more people clued in to the legal realities.

But it gets worse. Want to know why Disney didn't sue CFTOD directly, even though they're the ones who declared the previous development agreement null and void? Because of what happens if there's a problem with the bonds, which CFTOD took over. If there's a problem with CFTOD or the bonds, those bonds don't become Florida general liability. Rather, bondholders can call the bonds and demand immediate payment. And again, that money can only come from property owners within CFTOD. That means that Disney would need to pay off those bonds immediately, or face a lien on its property within the district.

As for legal costs, well, that's kind of amusing too. You see, CFTOD is involved in this legal battle, and they've got to pay their lawyers too. But where does the money that CFTOD spends come from? It doesn't come from Florida's general budget. No, it comes from revenue raised within that district. In other words, it comes from taxes on Disney. Disney is going to pay to have CFTOD fight itself.

And lastly, I don't think you grasp how precarious Disney's legal position actually is. Their entire case may fall apart because of a failure to mail out notices. But that's far from the only vulnerability in their position. Disney is vulnerable here. They don't actually have the high ground.
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I can't speculate further on the outcome of the case. Time will tell.

Probably worth mentioning the elephant in the room that Disney is a huge part of the Florida tourism industry. If Florida makes a big enough nuisance of themselves Disney can just pull the plug, move out of state, and crater the local economy. Obviously not an attractive option, but an option nonetheless. I find it very unlikely that the Disney Megacorporation is going to allow themselves to be in a position of having the bow and scrape to some upjumped psychos in Florida state legislature.

If I were a betting man I imagine that DeSantis quietly drops this issue once it's not longer a useful campaign issue for him and makes some settlement that essentially restores the status quo. He doesn't seem stupid enough to actually want to trade body blows with The Mouse.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
I can't speculate further on the outcome of the case. Time will tell.

Probably worth mentioning the elephant in the room that Disney is a huge part of the Florida tourism industry. If Florida makes a big enough nuisance of themselves Disney can just pull the plug, move out of state, and crater the local economy.
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Yeah, that's not happening. Disney has far too much capital invested in that property, you can't just move it and there's no where to move it to. Their only realistic option is to not further expand the property, but realistically the change from RCID to CFTOD isn't likely to do that. Plenty of other theme parks operate with just as much restrictions as Disney now faces and find it worthwhile. And the only way that Disney World is going to start losing money is if Disney ***** up on their own.

If I were a betting man I imagine that DeSantis quietly drops this issue once it's not longer a useful campaign issue for him and makes some settlement that essentially restores the status quo. He doesn't seem stupid enough to actually want to trade body blows with The Mouse.
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Why not? He has a winning hand, despite what the press (a big part of which is owned by Disney) might be saying. And what exactly do you think he has even done to Disney? He's removed an autonomy nobody else has and they weren't even supposed to have either. I think they can survive that, everyone else does.

I've mentioned before about Epcot, and how that was supposed to be a city that Disney promised but never built. That deserves a bit more explanation , because I don't think people really understand why that matters. It's usually blown off by pointing out that Disney wasn't legally bound to. So why does it matter?

It matters because the board of RCID was elected by residents of the district, and under the original plan, that would end up being all the residents of the Epcot city. Under that situation, Disney wouldn't be able to stack the board of RCID. That was central to why the Florida legislature approved that deal in the first place. But Disney never built the city, they never allowed anyone to be a resident except for a few hand-picked individuals at a time, and so they could hand-pick the board as well. That's not supposed to happen, everyone knows it's not supposed to work that way, and until it was DeSantis who changed it, basically everyone agreed that it was a prime example of corporate corruption of politics. And it even involves potential crimes (such as security fraud in the issuance of bonds where RCID was claimed to be independent of Disney but it obviously wasn't). But under the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it seems even the commies are now in favor of big capital (and no, I'm not calling you a commie).
 
Ziggurat said:
But under the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it seems even the commies are now in favor of big capital (and no, I'm not calling you a commie).
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There is a certain delicious irony that Disney is not at odds with their conservative state government. For all the posturing about believing in liberal values or whatever, they've been more than happy to boost conservatives who promise not to tax their enormous wealth or otherwise interfere in their business.

For me this is a "let them fight" moment. Disney has good business interests to not kowtow to fascists (it's bad PR, people like DeSantis have very limited appeal and Disney wants everyone's money), but that doesn't whitewash their reputation in my eyes. Them having to expend money to help clean up a mess they partially supported seems fine with me.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yeah, that's not happening. Disney has far too much capital invested in that property, you can't just move it and there's no where to move it to.
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They can do what those other companies that "fled" California and other liberal cities and states. Just open a new facility in another place, call that "Disneyworld" and keep the Florida park up, just don't refer to it as the HQ. Obviously, this doesn't cause any material harm, but its just there to tweak the right-wing reactionaries.

Their only realistic option is to not further expand the property, but realistically the change from RCID to CFTOD isn't likely to do that. Plenty of other theme parks operate with just as much restrictions as Disney now faces and find it worthwhile. And the only way that Disney World is going to start losing money is if Disney ***** up on their own.
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Or, they make a big deal about opening a new park in say, North Carolina.


Why not? He has a winning hand, despite what the press (a big part of which is owned by Disney) might be saying. And what exactly do you think he has even done to Disney? He's removed an autonomy nobody else has and they weren't even supposed to have either. I think they can survive that, everyone else does.
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You and Meatball Ron are on that list of people I really want to play poker with.

And just because I'm on Team Meteor doesn't mean I can't point out when one of the two evil teams fighting is incredibly stupid.
 
Disney has way too much invested in that region to just abandon it. But I think Disney just has to wait out the Desantis rampage. He's on a path to being burned up and the GOP's rage of the moment won't last much longer. People will get tired and will want to take their kids to Disney. Disney just needs to take steps to make sure their infrastructure doesn't get compromised long-term by Desantis' assorted lickspittles. So far Disney's lawyers have demonstrated that they are better at legal wrangling than them. The GOP as a whole is getting fed up with tantrum-boy's antics. I figure they just need to wait him out. They can push things along by mentioning how some projects are going to be delayed/ended because the Governor needs a nap.
 
Donal said:
They can do what those other companies that "fled" California and other liberal cities and states. Just open a new facility in another place, call that "Disneyworld" and keep the Florida park up, just don't refer to it as the HQ. Obviously, this doesn't cause any material harm, but its just there to tweak the right-wing reactionaries.
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What are you talking about? Disneyworld has never been Disney's headquarters. That's always been in Burbank, CA. And there's no way Disney is going to the expense of renaming the park in order to tweak anyone. Nor would it even accomplish that goal.

Or, they make a big deal about opening a new park in say, North Carolina.
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I don't think people are going to care as much as you seem to think.
 
kookbreaker said:
So far Disney's lawyers have demonstrated that they are better at legal wrangling than them.
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Not really. That last-minute development agreement wasn't some master stroke, it was an act of desperation, done by people who didn't understand Florida special district law in detail (because that's not their area of specialty) and who consequently messed up some key details which will likely bite them on the ass.

They can push things along by mentioning how some projects are going to be delayed/ended because the Governor needs a nap.
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Given that so far Disney hasn't been denied permission to do anything, I don't think they can really rely on this play.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Not really. That last-minute development agreement wasn't some master stroke, it was an act of desperation, done by people who didn't understand Florida special district law in detail (because that's not their area of specialty) and who consequently messed up some key details which will likely bite them on the ass.



Given that so far Disney hasn't been denied permission to do anything, I don't think they can really rely on this play.
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are you predicting that the Disney move to retain control will be overturned/ annulled ?

because if not, it seems very much like a master stroke, compared to having to deal with a bunch of people who objectively have no clue whatsoever about the Special District.
 
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