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The DeSantis gambit

Venom

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If you regard Donald Trump as a uniquely toxic and dangerous threat to the nation, should we starting considering backing Ron DeSantis? He's currently gaining approval among establishment Republicans and major media outlets, provoking the ire of Trump and much of his base. I've also seen many other MAGA people sharply criticize the former president after he introduced DeSantis' new nickname at a Pennsylvania rally last week.



And the grumblings grew louder after Trump doubled down on his attacks the day after the midterms on Truth Social.

I regard DeSantis as another shameless buffoon. He's done three things that have caught my eye recently though. He's put in work to protect the environment and natural resources of Florida, raised minimum teacher pay, and backed candidates not aligned with Trump. These are things the rightwing base do not normally crusade for. And IMO they provide an opening for liberals and Never-Trumpers to ingratiate themselves with the DeSantis coalition as it may turn out to be.

This I think could backfire if DeSantis decides not to run and backs Trump; he's 44 and he may feel he has plenty of time. It could also backfire if the establishment cannot or will not reign him in and he goes full Trumpist once in power. But I think if there's any opportunity to create a wedge within the Republican power structure, if only to take away a single-digit slice of the general election numbers in 2024, it's now.
 
Surgeon General Ladapo

Governor DeSantis appointed Dr. Joseph Ladapo as Surgeon General of Florida, who is a crank when it comes to Covid-19 vaccines. Link1 Link2. Enough said, because I don't want this to become a derail.
 
bruto said:
I sort of get the point of the OP, but "should we start considering backing" seems a bit excessive. To be not as bad as Trump requires little virtue.
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Just to get the man over the initial ********* Trump will throw at him. It could also possibly hurt DeSantis to be pictured shaking hands with Radical Leftists and RINOs.
 
Venom said:
Just to get the man over the initial ********* Trump will throw at him. It could also possibly hurt DeSantis to be pictured shaking hands with Radical Leftists and RINOs.
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Why would you think he would shake hands with radical leftists?
 
I actually think that since DeSantis may be both slightly more aware of reality, and more of an actual believer in his "cause", DeSantis may well be MORE dangerous to the USA than Trump.
 
Or...Trump is trying to draw out fake MAGA with this cunning ploy!

[IMGw=500]https://i.imgur.com/b5okqZ0.jpg[/IMGw]
 
They are both toxic piles of ****. DeSantis is supposed to be much smarter but doesn't show it. Trump is clinically insane and does. Neither is in any way desirable anywhere near government.
 
The only thing I'm hoping for is that DeSantis runs because then Trump (and DeSantis) will have a nasty fight for the nomination, and Trump won't be able to just receive it on a silver platter without spending resources including money on the fight to secure the nomination. It could also leave whichever one of them emerges wounded (politically). So yes I did make the argument in another thread that it's a blessing in disguise that DeSantis won, and that he won by a strong margin. Otherwise, who is going to stand between Trump and the Republican nomination. None of this is an endorsement of DeSantis. I'm just rooting for him to take out Trump.

And it all hinges on DeSantis actually deciding to run for president. I think he will, but I don't know what he's thinking. Maybe he wants to wait 4 more years and avoid a direct confrontation with Trump. But by 2028 his star may have faded. Voters can be fickle. I think if he's ambitious, now is the time to strike.
 
Trebuchet said:
I actually think that since DeSantis may be both slightly more aware of reality, and more of an actual believer in his "cause", DeSantis may well be MORE dangerous to the USA than Trump.
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I agree. DeSantis could well be an even bigger threat that Trump in the long run. Trump is all about Trump whereas DeSantis may be a true ideologue.

The OP said DeSantis "backed candidates not aligned with Trump". That's because he doesn't want Trump loyalists in positions of power. He want DeSantis loyalists.
 
Just as in 2015, the first Republican to declare will certainly lose the Nomination, no matter who he is.
 
I think it's time to acknowledge that there are no Republicans who should be "backed" by anyone outside the Republican party.

They're all one of complicit with, indifferent to, or unable to oppose, the antics of the Republican party over the last decade or more. Trumpism is just the latest, most extreme version of a party that has gotten steadily worse, and shows no signs of changing course.

A pox on all their houses. It doesn't matter who they nominate in 2024, everyone else just needs to focus on the one thing that matters: getting as many Democrats elected as possible. And that means motivating a lot of non-voters to come out and vote, and vote Democrat. That's what the Democratic party should focus on, and essentially ignore the Republicans as much as possible.
 
What a bloody crying shame that an out and out criminal is delicately handled like a king, requiring to be 'de-throned' by an up-and-comer scumbag instead of already being clapped in irons. Will CRIMINAL LEGAL consequences ever be brought to bear against Drumpf? Or will the country settle for a series of civil actions that only serves to keep that destructive miscreant forever in our collective misery.
 
**** DeSantis and anyone else peddling the lie that grade school textbooks are teaching critical race theory.
 
DeSantis appeared with Biden just a few weeks ago following the hurricane. Bipartisanship is not such a bad thing.

And why would he want to wait six years to run? He’s got the momentum right now. Six years is too far away to keep momentum. He should run in 2024.
 
Horatius said:
I think it's time to acknowledge that there are no Republicans who should be "backed" by anyone outside the Republican party.
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I thought this was about the "Let's-play-with-FIRE" strategy that paid off for Democrats in the mid-terms: Democrats said Trumpist candidates posed an existential threat to the country, but boosted them in their primary fights anyway because they would be weaker candidates in the general election. Democrats also did better than expected via more effective short-term gerrymandering.

DeSantis is going to do what he's going to do. If he runs, it will make the Republican who emerges less electable. All other things being equal, DeSantis would be more difficult to defeat than Trump. Not all other things are equal, however. Trump plays chicken by throwing the steering wheel out the window and making sure everyone sees him do it. He doesn't care at all about the Republican Party. If DeSantis were to win the nomination, Trump would try to take him down. Trump claimed Lyin' Ted Cruz cheated to win the Iowa caucus in 2016. If Trump were to win the nomination, then DeSantis would kiss the ring. And other Republicans would also fall in line. But Trump has so much baggage. Democrats helping DeSantis would fuel Trump's narrative that Deep State is out to get him. I think prediction markets overstate the likelihood a Republican will win in 2024. Unless Trump dies soon.

Trump's centrist positioning in 2016 is often overlooked. He was considered the least conservative candidate in the wide field. He did not take the stupid tax pledge. He vowed to protect Social Security and Medicare. He ran on the idea that trade wars were good and traditional wars were bad (with the realpolitick defense of Putin "you think our country is so innocent?"). He waved a rainbow flag, said the Electoral College was moronic, and didn't even expect to win. In 2020, he ran as Mr. Conservative, and lost. He has so much baggage, and weak coattails. A DeSantis run forces him to take positions.

What's Trump going to do with a second term? He's interested in attention, not governing.

Stacyhs said:
I agree. DeSantis could well be an even bigger threat that Trump in the long run. Trump is all about Trump whereas DeSantis may be a true ideologue.
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I don't believe in Republican ideologues anymore. The Trump presidency showed how craven and transactional the vast majority of them are.

One must weigh four more years of Trump against potentially eight years of DeSantis. Was Trump soooo bad? Yes. Yes, he was. People say, "Well, the world didn't come to an end, did it?" No, but if you had a 2% chance and it went to a 4% chance, it was always unlikely, but still, it's the world. What made Trump so bad, apart from the chaos? Mostly his response to the pandemic and election theft (impeachments 1 and 2).

The most remarkable achievement from the Trump White House was the vaccine. DeSantis says Trump came under the spell of the deep state by listening to Fauci and imposing lockdowns.

When someone loses the general election, they're supposed to go away. They don't get to run again. But Trump says the election was stolen, and others have gone along with the lie. A nomination fight could force discussion of the issue. At the debates, moderators will ask everyone who thinks the 2020 election was stolen to raise their hand.

I hoped for a Trump coup because it would almost certainly fail, and then Trumpism would be immediately rejected. Maybe a slow, fading rejection is best in the long run. Trump cost Republicans in 2018, 2020, and 2022. So much winning.
 
Stacyhs said:
I agree. DeSantis could well be an even bigger threat that Trump in the long run. Trump is all about Trump whereas DeSantis may be a true ideologue.

The OP said DeSantis "backed candidates not aligned with Trump". That's because he doesn't want Trump loyalists in positions of power. He want DeSantis loyalists.
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I don't agree. The Trump phenomenon is a cult of personality. It's not easy to replace such a thing.
 
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