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The Conspiracy According to Dennis Kucinich

GregoryUrich

Graduate Poster
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
1,316
The CD theory is the best thing that ever happened to Bush and Cheney as it is taking all the energy away from the real issues.

The real conspiracy is what Dennis Kucinich presented last night.
 
What about chemtrails! he forgot to add chemtrails to the articles. I'm disappointed in Dennis.
 
*Yawn*:slp:
From The Raw Story:
More considered analysis of the actual political and historical significance of Kucinich's move was mixed. At The Huffington Post, political historian Joseph A. Palermo, the author of Robert F. Kennedy And the Death of American Idealism, headlined a blog entry "Dennis Kucinich Makes History Again - Impeach Bush!"

Palermo wrote, "Kucinich's lengthy and detailed indictment of this wayward president is the most thorough and powerful case made to date. He outlined a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors and showed without a shadow of a doubt that George W. Bush deserves to be impeached and removed from office. Kucinich made clear that Bush has violated his oath of office and his Constitutional duty that the laws be 'faithfully executed.'"

In contrast, Salon.com's political blogger, Alex Koppelman, wrote dismissively, "Some liberals in the blogosphere are complaining about the dearth of coverage of Kucinich's resolution. I have to disagree -- as I've pointed out before, when discussing complaints of liberal bias from the right, the media is in the business of covering news. This barely qualifies; if it deserves mention in the mainstream media at all, it certainly doesn't deserve to be accorded the status of something big and breaking. I'm sorry, but the action of a lone congressman who's widely considered something of a laughingstock, especially when it's clear that action will never come to anything, just isn't especially newsworthy."
(bolding mine)
 
Kucinich is considered a loose cannon by 90% of the Democrats. He is just pandering to his Hard Left Support Base.
 
I wonder how Ron Paul feels about this. Might hurt his chance for the preside.... nevermind.
 
Kucinich is considered a loose cannon by 90% of the Democrats.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/kucinich_obama_is_my_second_ch.html "Kucinich said Tuesday that he would like his supporters to back Obama in places where they are not in large enough numbers to be viable. ... snip ... The senator from Illinois issued his own statement of thanks. “I have a lot of respect for Congressman Kucinich, and I’m honored that he has done this because we both believe deeply in the need for fundamental change,” he said."

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/06/kucinich_pushing_for_bush_impe.html "June 9, 2008 ... snip ... On the House floor this evening, the Ohio Democrat proposed impeaching President Bush."

:D
 
What would be the point of impeaching Bush? He only has seven months left in his term anyway. They probably couldn't even hold impeachment hearings in that length of time. Better to just let him go quietly.
My personal answer would be to set precedent. The Bush Administration has set some horrible precedents and these remain unless challenged. The impeachment proceedings might be able to define what actions Bush has taken are perrogatives of the presidency and which are illegal.

Republicans ought to horrified at the prospect of a future Democratic president using signing statement to effectively nullify legislation they passed. Democrats ought to be horrified at the prospect of a future Republican president blatently violating the First Amendment. And so on.

Both sides of the aisle should be anxious to not allow Bush Administration precedents to stand. I'm surprised they aren't.

ETA: In my view, the worst aspect of the Bush Administration has been the shredding of the Constitutional concept of "checks and balances". This concept is, IMO, the core genius of the founders. If Congress does not reassert its equal standing of oversight, it will damage our basic governmental structure. While impeachment might be over other details, it is this core concept that would really be on trial.
 
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Kucinich is considered a loose cannon by 90% of the Democrats. He is just pandering to his Hard Left Support Base.

Well, considering that his colleagues' approval rating is less than 30%, I'm not sure how much we should care about their opinion.
 
I'd fully support impeachment. Not to get him out of office, but so that's what he is remembered for. I think there should be that kind of record showing he was dishonest and irresponsible in running the country and abusing his powers.
 
I'd fully support impeachment. Not to get him out of office, but so that's what he is remembered for. I think there should be that kind of record showing he was dishonest and irresponsible in running the country and abusing his powers.

Exactly. And the same goes for Tony Blair and his Downing Street Memos. The filthy war criminals should be locked up for life.
 
Remind me again why they impeached Clinton. Republicans make absolutely no sense to me.
 
'Bush Lied'? If Only It Were That Simple.

By Fred Hiatt
Monday, June 9, 2008; Page A17

There's no question that the administration, and particularly Vice President Cheney, spoke with too much certainty at times and failed to anticipate or prepare the American people for the enormous undertaking in Iraq.

But dive into Rockefeller's report, in search of where exactly President Bush lied about what his intelligence agencies were telling him about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, and you may be surprised by what you find.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801687.html

The above op-ed does a good debunking of the "Bush lied" accusation leveled by Kucinich and others.
 
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'Bush Lied'? If Only It Were That Simple.

By Fred Hiatt
Monday, June 9, 2008; Page A17

There's no question that the administration, and particularly Vice President Cheney, spoke with too much certainty at times and failed to anticipate or prepare the American people for the enormous undertaking in Iraq.

But dive into Rockefeller's report, in search of where exactly President Bush lied about what his intelligence agencies were telling him about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, and you may be surprised by what you find.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801687.html

The above op-ed does a good debunking of the "Bush lied" accusation leveled by Kucinich and others.

Well, it might not be that simple, but it is still relatively simple.

On March 17, 2003 Bush stated,

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

A United Nations Document states, "Up until they were withdrawn from Iraq on 18 March –- the day before armed action began -- United Nations inspectors had found no evidence of the continuation or resumption of programmes of weapons of mass destruction, Hans Blix told the Security Council this morning, as he briefed them for a final time before stepping down at the end of June as head of the inspection team."

So if Bush states there is "no doubt" and the UN reports there is "no evidence", then where did Bush and the neo-cons get their intel from? The United Nation had the only large, active human intelligence on the ground in the months preceding the Iraq Attaq. The "evidence" for WMD was nothing more than neo-con propaganda.
 
A United Nations Document states, "Up until they were withdrawn from Iraq on 18 March –- the day before armed action began -- United Nations inspectors had found no evidence of the continuation or resumption of programmes of weapons of mass destruction, Hans Blix told the Security Council this morning, as he briefed them for a final time before stepping down at the end of June as head of the inspection team."

So if Bush states there is "no doubt" and the UN reports there is "no evidence", then where did Bush and the neo-cons get their intel from? The United Nation had the only large, active human intelligence on the ground in the months preceding the Iraq Attaq. The "evidence" for WMD was nothing more than neo-con propaganda.

You appear to have no doubt there were no wmd. So please answer a few questions.

Why did Saddam's regime put so many obstacles in the path of UN inspectors, if there were no WMD and no WMD programs? Why did the Iraqi regime threaten the family members of those involved in Iraq's WMD programs with death if that family member cooperated with the UN inspectors? Why did Iraq delay UN inspectors from getting to inspection sites after they were announced? Doesn't the fact that when this happened in earlier years there is clear proof the Iraqi regime was removing WMD related materials from the sites before inspections create a little doubt in your mind as to what was happening in 2003?

You quoted Blix to suggest there was "no evidence" but do you know that even as late as March of 2003, UNMOVIC was STILL unsuccessfully seeking interviews with people they thought connected to the WMD work? Do you know that Blix noted "there have been reports, denied from the Iraqi side, that proscribed activities are conducted underground"? Do you know that after the invasion the ISG did indeed discover proscribed underground labs? Do you know that Blix noted "the Iraqi side tried to persuade us that the Al Samoud 2 missiles they have declared fall within the permissible range set by the Security Council"? Do you know they didn't and after the invasion if was discovered that the Iraqis had plans for much longer range missiles in the works? Don't any of those facts leave at least a little doubt in your mind regarding your claim that there was "no WMD"?

If there was no evidence of WMD programs in Iraq, why did the ISG conclude that Iraq retained the seed stock, knowledge and equipment needed to quickly restart its biological munitions program? Why did Duelfer tell Congress in 2004: "Iraq would have been able to produce mustard agent in a period of months and nerve agent in less than a year or two"? If there was no doubt, why did Duelfer say "we cannot yet definitively say whether or not WMD materials were transferred out of Iraq before the war. Neither can we definitively answer some questions about possible retained stocks"?

Why did David Kay at the time he stepped down from the job of Head of the ISG, say "we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme." Yet you seem to have no doubt?

Why did the final ISG report state "there was evidence of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received information about movement of material out of Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved. In the judgment of the working group, these reports were sufficiently credible to merit further investigation"? Doesn't the fact that Duelfer said he was unable to complete that aspect of the probe because "the declining security situation limited and finally halted this investigation. The results remain inconclusive" suggest a degree of doubt? Why are you acting like you are 100% sure there were no WMD?

Where did that viable binary sarin warhead that turned up as an IED come from? And why did the ISG say "the existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist"? Shouldn't "a possibility" equate to doubt?

If there were no WMD in Iraq, why did the ISG concluded that Iraq systematically destroyed files, computers and facilities thought to be related to WMD just prior to, during and even after the invasion? Tell us what they were hiding to remove the little bit of doubt that I have regarding your assertion. :)

If there were no WMD in Iraq, why would ISG inspectors and those they sought to interview post invasion regarding WMD have been targeted for assassination (that was the claim of the ISG)?

And what was in those trucks that were seen moving to Syria before the war? There are number of well connected individuals, including the #2 General in Saddam's Air Force, Syrian Journalists, the Israelis, and members of the US Armed Forces who entered Iraq looking for WMD after the invasion who say the evidence points towards those truck containing WMD related materials. Isn't this cause for at least a little doubt on your part?

And what about the contents of the many Iraqi documents the Coalition discovered after the invasion ... documents that clearly suggest that Iraq did continue efforts to acquire or hide WMD right up until the start of the war? Some of those documents clearly show the Iraqis were buying large quantities of precurser chemicals that were specifically banned under the sanctions. And there are documents talking about construction of and movement (even hiding) of WMD related items. Don't those create any doubt in your mind? Shouldn't you mention these doubts rather than give your readers the impression there is no doubt at all? Is it democrat propaganda if you don't?

And finally, because I suspect you are an Obama supporter, Obama and the rest of the democrat leadership now claim the surge failed and that we've either lost the war in Iraq or can't win it. Obama's website says "The goal of the surge was to create space for Iraq's political leaders to reach an agreement to end Iraq's civil war. At great cost, our troops have helped reduce violence in some areas of Iraq, but even those reductions do not get us below the unsustainable levels of violence of mid-2006. Moreover, Iraq's political leaders have made no progress in resolving the political differences at the heart of their civil war." But in light of all that's been noted by the media in recent weeks (including liberal mouthpieces like the Washington Post), it is clear those statements are untrue. So tell me ... is Obama lying to his supporters and the public because he doesn't show any doubt?

Oh ... one more question. Did you support Clinton's war in Kosovo? If so, I hate to break it to you. Clinton, his administration and his oh so supportive media told you a lot of things with absolute conviction that were outright false or for which there was considerable doubt. So did they lie to you?
 
I dislike Bush intensely but I just don't see that he's done anything really impeachment worthy. I feel people are too eager to vilify those they disagree with and this just reeks of that sentiment. Impeaching Presidents because you dislike their policy decisions sets a dangerous precedent itself IMHO.
 
You appear to have no doubt there were no wmd. So please answer a few questions.

Why did Saddam's regime put so many obstacles in the path of UN inspectors, if there were no WMD and no WMD programs? Why did the Iraqi regime threaten the family members of those involved in Iraq's WMD programs with death if that family member cooperated with the UN inspectors? Why did Iraq delay UN inspectors from getting to inspection sites after they were announced? Doesn't the fact that when this happened in earlier years there is clear proof the Iraqi regime was removing WMD related materials from the sites before inspections create a little doubt in your mind as to what was happening in 2003??

This is not true. He allowed the UN Weapons inspectors into his country after UN Resolution 1441 was adopted unanimously by the Security Council in November of 2002. As the AP reported on 01/18/2003,

"In almost two months of surprise visits across Iraq, U.N. arms monitors have inspected 13 sites identified by U.S. and British intelligence agencies as major "facilities of concern," and reported no signs of revived weapons building..."

In his book "Disarming Iraq", Hans Blix wrote,

"In Now. of 2002, a new round of inspections had been initiated to resolve key remaining tasks in the disarming of Iraq. Although the inspection organization was now operating at full strength and Iraq seemed determined to give it prompt access everywhere, the US appeared as determined to replace our inspection force with an invading army."

He also wrote,

"We went to a great many sites that were given to us by intelligence, and only in three cases did we find anything - and they did not relate to weapons of mass destruction. That shook me a bit, I must say."

Do you know that Blix noted "the Iraqi side tried to persuade us that the Al Samoud 2 missiles they have declared fall within the permissible range set by the Security Council"? Do you know they didn't and after the invasion if was discovered that the Iraqis had plans for much longer range missiles in the works? Don't any of those facts leave at least a little doubt in your mind regarding your claim that there was "no WMD"?

Hans Blix and his team were disarming Saddam's Al Samoud missiles. It is hard to say that Saddam was not cooperating when he was being defanged by the inspectors. Hans Blix reported,

"Our inspectors in Iraq continued to work on Monday, March 17. They supervised the destruction of two Al-Samoud missiles, bring the total number destroyed to seventy-two."

If there was no evidence of WMD programs in Iraq, why did the ISG conclude that Iraq retained the seed stock, knowledge and equipment needed to quickly restart its biological munitions program? Why did Duelfer tell Congress in 2004: "Iraq would have been able to produce mustard agent in a period of months and nerve agent in less than a year or two"? If there was no doubt, why did Duelfer say "we cannot yet definitively say whether or not WMD materials were transferred out of Iraq before the war. Neither can we definitively answer some questions about possible retained stocks"?

Many countries may have the knowledge to build a weapons programs. Just because they have the knowledge and some rudimentary equipment does not make them a threat to the United States, or imply that we should invade their country. If we used that logic we could invade practically any country at any time. If Saddam did begin to rebuild these weapons on a mass scale they would be detected. The weapon inspectors could disarm him as they did in the 1990's under Scott Ritter, or we could bomb Iraq's production facilities.

Why did David Kay at the time he stepped down from the job of Head of the ISG, say "we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme." Yet you seem to have no doubt?"

What material was moved? David Kay also stated this,

"My fundamental belief is that weapons weren't moved to Syria because ISG found no evidence that they had been produced. And ISG found contrary evidence that they had not been produced. Would it have been better if we had gone to Syria and been able to look? Absolutely. But that was just not in the cards."

Maybe Saddam's fictional WMD are hidden on the dark side of the moon. Maybe they are like that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, always elusive but real.

Why are you acting like you are 100% sure there were no WMD?"

If Saddam had WMD then where were they being produced? It seems that many of the defenders of the Iraq invasion seem to believe that Saddam could conjure WMD out of thin air. This is not a chicken and the egg problem, which came first? For Saddam to have WMD he needed to have a facility to produce them first. Where were these weapons being produced? If you don't have an answer, then you don't have any evidence.

Where did that viable binary sarin warhead that turned up as an IED come from? And why did the ISG say "the existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist"? Shouldn't "a possibility" equate to doubt?"

Saddam produced some chemical weapons during the 1980's when we supported him. It is likely that someone would eventually find left over weapons and junk from the Iran-Iraq war. Left over junk from the Iran-Iraq War hardly gives us a casus beli for war.

And what was in those trucks that were seen moving to Syria before the war? There are number of well connected individuals, including the #2 General in Saddam's Air Force, Syrian Journalists, the Israelis, and members of the US Armed Forces who entered Iraq looking for WMD after the invasion who say the evidence points towards those truck containing WMD related materials. Isn't this cause for at least a little doubt on your part?"

David Kay has stated that he doubted they were WMD, as the ISG found no evidence that Saddam was producing them circa 2003, 2003. It could have been illegal smuggling associated with the Oil for Food Programme.

And what about the contents of the many Iraqi documents the Coalition discovered after the invasion ... documents that clearly suggest that Iraq did continue efforts to acquire or hide WMD right up until the start of the war?"

Many of the documents that attempted to give legitimacy to the invasion were forged. We didn't go to war over pieces of paper, but WMD that could actually kill people.

And finally, because I suspect you are an Obama supporter, Obama and the rest of the democrat leadership now claim the surge failed and that we've either lost the war in Iraq or can't win it.

I am not an Obama supporter. I am a conservative and voted for Bush/Cheney in 2000. In 2004, I wrote-in the Constitutional Party candidate, Michael Peroutka. I have never voted for a Democrat.

Oh ... one more question. Did you support Clinton's war in Kosovo? If so, I hate to break it to you. Clinton, his administration and his oh so supportive media told you a lot of things with absolute conviction that were outright false or for which there was considerable doubt. So did they lie to you?

I favored the impeachment and conviction of Bill Clinton for lying under oath. I was against the bombing of Kosovo. One of the reason's I liked Bush was his non-interventionist beliefs, he was against nation-building and he wanted a more humble foreign policy. In Kosovo, we allied ourselves with a drug-running fanatical terrorist group, the KLA. Clinton and Blair lied about the genocide that was going on so they could bomb Orthodox Christians. The neo-cons were devoted supporters of that war. That is when I started to become suspicious of them as true conservatives. My suspicions have been confirmed.
 

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