The chiropractor and the Olympic athlete

[Kochanski]

I think athletes are very susceptible to woo-woo because they are always looking for an edge of some sort, something to improve their performance that is not a drug or a treatment that would be banned by amateur or professional sports organizations. Woo-woo fits the bill quite nicely. It would be interesting to look at sports magazines and see how much woo-woo is pitched in them.

I definitely want to hear more about Samantha Cools and her chiropractor, but I doubt that the media will do any serious interview with her or investigate further.

 

[Physiotherapist]

If athletes get injuries and have problems, then I think they should be seeing Physical Therapist and Sports and Remedial Massage Therapists, not Chiros.

Most injuries sustained are soft tissue injuries and chiros don't seem to know the meaning of the word soft tissue. All they know how to do is crack and 'pop' and we have already seen what damage this causes!!

 

[Acleron]

And as an extra bonus, that black tape the beach and indoor volleyballers are wearing? Invented by a chiropractor. Also, has magic powers.

From above link.

Miller said there are no clinical studies proving the tape works. But if the athletes like it, why not use it

I think athletes are very susceptible to woo-woo because they are always looking for an edge of some sort, something to improve their performance that is not a drug or a treatment that would be banned by amateur or professional sports organizations. Woo-woo fits the bill quite nicely. It would be interesting to look at sports magazines and see how much woo-woo is pitched in them.

You are undoubtedly correct. It is such a shame that a pursuit, that relies on success by such small margins, follows unproven remedies. The impression is given that sports training and medicine is very scientific but that is often not the case. It doesn't seem to occur to them that any technology/medicine, if unproven, may be detrimental to their performance.

 

[Blue Wode]

Athletes often win by slim margins, and they are prone to all sorts of superstitions. Michael Shermer, founder of the Skeptics Society and publisher of Skeptic describes his own experience in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things."

Yes, and it’s interesting what he concluded about it [p.14-15]:

I began visiting a chiropractor not because I needed one but because I had read that energy flows through the spinal cord and can get blocked at various places. I discovered that the more I got adjusted, the more I needed to get adjusted because my neck and back kept going “out”. This went on for a couple of years until I finally quite going altogether, and I’ve never needed a chiropractor since.

All told, I raced as a professional ultra-marathon cyclist for ten years, all the while trying anything and everything (except drugs and steroids) that might improve my performance. As the Race Across America got bigger – it was featured for many years of ABC’s Wide World of Sports – I had many offers to try all sorts of things, which I usually did. From this ten-year experiment with a subject pool of one, I drew two conclusions: nothing increased performance, alleviated pain, or enhanced well-being other than long hours in the saddle, dedication to a consistent training schedule, and a balanced diet; and it pays to be skeptical.

Here’s another story related to chiropractic and the Olympics which appeared in the UK press today:

Step forward the Putney Chiropractic Centre...[plus a short list of other sponsors].....When you are a canoeist you find sponsors wherever you can, but Tim Brabants rewarded his backers here yesterday with Britain's first Olympic gold medal in the sport.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-reward-for-doctor-with-patience-906396.html

Well, it seems that the Putney chiropractic clinic has a very broad scope of practice which it wants the public to know about. For example, it claims that chiropractors can “assist with the turning of breech babies”.
http://www.putneychiropractic.co.uk/

One of the techniques it uses is the ‘Webster Technique’. Here's what the well-respected veteran chiropractor has to say about it:

Many chiropractors are "adjusting" the spines of pregnant women to "assure normal delivery" and to prevent breech birth caused by "intrauterine constraint." This dubious treatment -- known as the Webster Technique -- is based on the equally dubious theory that vertebral subluxations can cause malfunction in the uterus by putting pressure on spinal nerves. Chiropractors who advocate the Webster Technique, claim:

• Failure to prevent sacral and pelvic subluxations can result in abnormal positioning of the baby in the uterus.
• Babies can be turned from a breech position to a normal vertex (head down) position simply by adjusting the sacrum.

These contentions are not merely nonsensical. Reliance on the Webster Technique during the final weeks of pregnancy can endanger both the mother and the child.

More…
http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/webster.html

You can only hope, more than ever, that Simon Singh wins his case:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121214

 

[JJM]

See this article "Dismantling the chiropractic claims of the BCA, GCC and others" http://www.layscience.net/node/566 by Blue Wode.

 

[zeno2712]

It's nearly time for the next Olympic Games, here in sunny London!

And the GCC are gearing up to cope with the in flux of chiros coming to the UK to keep their national teams in peak physical condition.

Of course, there is a slight problem in that to call yourself a chiro in the UK, you MUST be registered with the GCC. It's illegal not to:

It's a criminal offence for anyone to call themselves a chiropractor if they're not registered with us

The GCC Council held a meeting last week and they discussed this. They issued a short bulletin about the meeting (they won't publish the public minutes until the next meeting, probably next February) that included:

Practitioners travelling with sports teams

Council members considered the position, in relation to section 32(1) of the Chiropractors Act 1994 and statutory protection of the title ‘chiropractor’, in the context of overseas (non-EU) qualified chiropractors who will be travelling to the UK with sports teams competing in the London 2012 Olympics.

Members are aware that under the provisions of this legislation, it is a criminal offence for anyone to expressly or by implication call themselves any kind of chiropractor in the UK unless they are registered with the GCC. Current GCC policy is to seek evidence when it becomes aware that an offence is being committed and to provide that evidence to the police.

Further, it has already been agreed with the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (LOCOG) that chiropractors working as volunteers in the Olympics polyclinics will be required to hold practising registration with the GCC.

In considering this matter, Council took account of the approaches taken/views expressed by the General Medical Council, Health Professions Council and General Osteopathic Council.

Council members emphasised that the purpose of Section 32(1) of the Chiropractors Act 1994 is to protect members of the public by taking action against unregulated individuals who mislead patients and, potentially, put them at risk.

Members considered that a public interest test should be applied to this issue and, provided that an overseas qualified chiropractor travelling with a sports team is providing treatment to team members only, then the question of possible ‘risks’ to the general public does not arise. Council agreed that, in such circumstances, should the GCC receive information that an unregistered practitioner is describing themselves as a chiropractor, the GCC would not pursue its usual policy of seeking evidence and referring the matter to the police.

Staggering.

 

[Illustronic]

One funny thing is that a lot of muscular pain experienced by athletes is not due to anything always pulled or tendons being ruptured, a lot is due to restricted blood flow, and some specialists can locate where the 'clot' is and force it through restoring the natural flow making it seem like an instant cure and strength and movement immediately regained.

Sounds funny but I've seen it happen right before my eyes before, and it was a very large man that was treated in this matter that I cannot remember the technical term for right now, I'm not a doctor.

I guess it does depend on the specific injury, this man could not move his arm above his shoulder for over two months from weightlifting/working out in a gym. A couple of thumbs near his neck and it was gone.

Not the only time I saw this and he did it to me as well. The technique can even eliminate a 'hangover' but I can't be a direct model of that, well OK, maybe 30 some years ago he got rid of a hangover from me once. I haven't had one since, I wonder...

 

[casebro]

Weeell, it's not a clot. It's a tight spot in the muscle. But the swollen spot of the muscle does interfere with local blood flow. I believe it is a matter of muscle cells being too exhausted of the energy required to push a calcium ion out of the cell. The ion tells the cell to contract, it's part of the neuro-signal. A massage pushes the calcium out, allowing the muscle to relax.

Funny, we are talking muscles here, yet chiros supposedly treat 'subluxations', mythical skeletal mis alignments. Massage treats the muscles wihtout the WOooo.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Sounds very much like a Trigger Point (TrP) to me and that is normally located in the muscle belly.

I agree that you can treat muscles with massage without any of this chiro subluxation nonsense.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Sounds very much like a Trigger Point (TrP) to me and that is normally located in the muscle belly.

I agree that you can treat muscles with massage without any of this chiro subluxation nonsense.

I have a vet friend who does acupuncture on this same Trigger Point principle. As far as I can tell, this might be acupuncture without the woo. I think it's also called Dry Needling in the USA.

It adds another layer of complexity to assessing the claims of acupuncture. As far as I can tell the trials comparing "real" and sham acupuncture are tests of Chinese-style silly acupuncture not this stick-a-needle-in-the-hurty-bit therapy.

n=1 anecdote time. Mrs Monkey has painful hips, possibly similar in pathogenesis to her previous frozen shoulder. Friend needled the hurty bit and the effect was instant and fairly long-lasting.

Meanwhile another vet in my circle of knowledge practises something more like Chinese acupuncture on horses and I have no reason to doubt my previous assessment that this is utter tosh.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Is there more than one school of chiropracty? Ive heard stories that seem perfectly viable about simply slipping back bones that really were slightly out of place, like wrist bones in someone who works at the computer too much, and then I hear stories about people messing with bones that no one should be messing with short of controlled surgery.

I have a good friend who works as a message therapist at various computer companies around silicon valley and he seems to think that there is some value in chiropracty. However he never talks about these neck rotations and the like, he's always talking about things like hands and wrists and other little bones.

Is there a level of chiropracty that is actually legitimate?

 

[nvidiot]

Yup, but it's called massage.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Is there more than one school of chiropracty? Ive heard stories that seem perfectly viable about simply slipping back bones that really were slightly out of place, like wrist bones in someone who works at the computer too much, and then I hear stories about people messing with bones that no one should be messing with short of controlled surgery.

I have a good friend who works as a message therapist at various computer companies around silicon valley and he seems to think that there is some value in chiropracty. However he never talks about these neck rotations and the like, he's always talking about things like hands and wrists and other little bones.

Is there a level of chiropracty that is actually legitimate?

It's more full of schisms than a fringe religion. Read around here;

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/201...th-their-regulator-the-gcc.html#comment-13533

to see examples of them struggling to decide exactly what the hell they are. I sat next to a senior member of faculty at one of the UK chiro colleges who proudly told me they no longer use the "S-word" [subluxation] and how his students "ran rings" around Edzard Ernst when he visited them, but he was pretty vague on providing a description or definition of what it is they actually do. Unfortunately it was a jazz bar and the music was too loud to pursue the topic so I gave up.

 

[Beady]

Is there more than one school of chiropracty?

Technically, the term is "Chiropractic."

I once had a job that, among other things, involved taking a disabled guy to a chiropractor. When I started with him, he was seeing a chiropractor who claimed to be at the "cutting edge" of the field. The patient would lie face down and relax, while Sioux tribal chants softly floated through the air from the stereo. The "doctor" would gently touch the patient somewhere along the spine, then step back and watch until the the patient twitched. Then another touch in a different spot and another twitch. This went on for the allotted half-hour, then up and out the door. By the way, there were several patients/tables arranged like spokes on a wheel, heads pointed in toward the hub. In between touches and twitches, the "doctor" would run around touching and twitching all the other patients. Don't know what her fee was/is, but multiply it by six or eight per half hour. Here's her web site (and I just qualified for a free adjustment by mentioning it). This is a quote from the "About Me" section:

In addition to being a Chiropractor, I am also trained in Somato Respiratory Integration (SRI) from the Twelve Stages of Healing work, and I am a certified Firewalking Instructor. I have been a staff trainer for the Firewalking Institute of Research and Education and I conduct Firewalking workshops routinely. My practice members enjoy participating in the different events we are able to offer. I am proficient in French & Chinese, have practiced Qi Gong and love playing the violin with Alya.

I see she no longer mentions studying with Filipino psychic surgeons.

I finally talked the guy's guardian into letting me take him to a "real" chiropractor, where he could at least get a decent massage.

 

[JJM]

... Is there a level of chiropracty that is actually legitimate?

That is difficult to answer because the only unifying feature of chiropractic is their defensiveness about criticism. Strict chiro is pure nonsense, in that sense the answer to your question is "no." That covers 20% of the chiros in North America (known as "straights") [FONT=&quot]Abstract [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B75KC-4F1H9GS-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=754fe88415cd702aa52be6484f7005b8[/FONT][/FONT] . I have the entire report.

There are chiros who try to be "rational" or "scientific" (which means they don't practice chiro); but they are self-taught and one must wonder how well they did at teaching themselves. Their number is small, and hard to tally, probably less than 5%. In between "rational" and "straight" are "mixers" who mix traditional chiro with any other nonsense (or sense) that comes to mind (that would include the quack described by Beady, above). The simplest approach to avoid trouble is to skip chiros entirely.

You can read about chiro here http://www.ebm-first.com/ and at www.quackwatch.org (including the chirobase subsidiary) and at www.skepdic.com .

 

[Physiotherapist]

I have a vet friend who does acupuncture on this same Trigger Point principle. As far as I can tell, this might be acupuncture without the woo. I think it's also called Dry Needling in the USA.

Yes, it's called Dry Needling here too and some of my physio colleagues use this technique. All it is doing is just releasing the TrP in the same way as a Sports Massage Therapist would do with a finger or a thumb. There is no TCM theory behind it, just Anatomy and Physiology.

Personally, I don't use this in my own practice, but use a thumb instead to help release and then stretch the tissue involved afterwards.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Is there more than one school of chiropracty? Ive heard stories that seem perfectly viable about simply slipping back bones that really were slightly out of place, like wrist bones in someone who works at the computer too much, and then I hear stories about people messing with bones that no one should be messing with short of controlled surgery.

I have a good friend who works as a message therapist at various computer companies around silicon valley and he seems to think that there is some value in chiropracty. However he never talks about these neck rotations and the like, he's always talking about things like hands and wrists and other little bones.

Is there a level of chiropracty that is actually legitimate?

A lot of people that I talk to say that they go to a chiropractor and get an adjustment and then they walk out and get in the car and it goes back out again.

The problem is that if muscles are tight for whatever reason, they can quite easily pull on bones. Go and get a good sports massage instead of wasting money on a chiro.

I have to say that the chiropractors with sense that don't spout the nonsense about subluxations probably only work like most massage therapists anyway.

 

[Blue Wode]

A new post at the Quackometer that's very relevant to this thread:

Chiropractors Cash In on Olympics
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/04/chiropractors-cash-in-on-olympics.html

Last Autumn a systematic review of the evidence was published in Focus on Alternative and Complementary Therapies entitled “Chiropractic for the prevention and/or treatment of sports injuries: a systematic review of controlled clinical trials.” [full text]

The review searched databases for trials into chiropractic as it is used in sports health. The emerging studies were generally of low quality and inconclusive. Trials were not properly controlled, were too small, did not report in standard ways and did not use validated outcome measures. Thus, the authors had to come to the conclusion that,

Few rigorous trials have tested the effectiveness of chiropractic manipulation for the treatment and/or prevention of sports injuries. Thus, the therapeutic value of this approach for athletes remains uncertain.​

As this is the latest review into the subject, it places the chiropractors taking part in the Olympics in a difficult ethical and professional position. As regulated chiropractors, they are expected to abide by their code of ethics that demands that the “care you select and provide must be informed by the best available evidence”. If these chiropractors were to make claims that their therapy could help athletes either prevent or treat sports injuries then they could be subject to professional disciplinary action. They might be misleading their customers if they claimed they could be of benefit.

 

[krelnik]

Evil Idea:

• Recruit skeptic volunteers to hang out around the Olympic village with wireless laptops.
• Watch for athletes that have failed to medal or otherwise had problems
• Ask them if they had seen a chiropractor while at the games
• If they say yes, open the laptop and help them file a GCC complaint

 

[jasonpatterson]

Agreed Blue Wode,

Chiropractors Cash In on Olympics
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2012...-olympics.html
...
As this is the latest review into the subject, it places the chiropractors taking part in the Olympics in a difficult ethical and professional position.

What is their difficult choice, whether to continue practicing as fraudulent medical professionals or to get an honest job? Give me a break.