The "Carlos Swett affair"

[Blue Monk]

Re: THANKS BLUE MONK

Originally posted by S&S
I really appreciate your replies, unleast in this thread you did not need to insulte me , and is significant your possision to debate with arguments.

Well I’m afraid I can’t say the same for you. On a number of instances you have quite blatantly implied that I was not replying honestly, implying that I was ‘afraid’ of your evidence, that I was more worried about the money etc.

Originally posted by S&S
You had posted this pictures from a video of a link on internet.
Maybe Mr. Hal Bidlack doesn't agree these pictures and he has also his respectable position about that.

Did you even follow the link? I am sure Bidlack will agree with these shots. The film comparisons I’ve offered show overwhelming evidence that your object is simply a bird.

If your event were actually passing through the first tower then that should be plainly visible on ALL videos of the event. It is only on your perspective because it is simply a bird that flew into the camera range at that moment.

Originally posted by S&S
I also want to know which was the link where Andrew Harter studied it "frame by frame", is a mysterious until now. Nobody knows. I also asked him, but no a word.

I don’t know what link he used.

And for the next ten times you ask that same question that no one except Harter can answer.

I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Originally posted by S&S
Is "the bird" in front of the building? or it "seems" to come from behind the tower?

It is in front of BOTH buildings. It is a bird.

Originally posted by S&S
This questions you don't need to answer me. You have enough about "Harter's lies or mistakes" ; no matter what you "beleive " or not

No one lied to you. Your claim is simply not correct. Easy to disprove.

Originally posted by S&S
What I am sure is that Internet is not the correct method to analize the image, no matter if the members say to his own: "well, that "bird" is a little wierd".

Harter’s job was not to analyze your tape.

Harter’s job was to analyze your application.

Your application was to a contest not for free and complete analysis of your tape.

Had Harter found information the supported your claim then that would have warranted a closer look at your tape.

But he immediately found evidence that you had no claim.

Case closed.

It’s a bird.

That is why a large object swooping from the sky and passing through one of the largest structures on earth at a time when the world’s media was focused at that exact spot does not show up on any other video. It’s not there.

You have no claim. There is nothing supernatural happening here.

 

[Wyrd1]

My hero!

Thanks Blue Monk! You have destroyed Carlos' arguement for all time. Whether he admits it is irrelevant. The thing was a bird all along. Hat shaped objects don't flap their wings as this bird did in the last couple of frames.

Carlos, go ahead and call us all liars it doesn't matter now. Insult every person who posts in this thread. It doesn't matter now. Go ahead and insist that we need to see a higher resolution frame by frame video to really judge your claim. It doesn't matter now. Do we need to see high res pictures of out of focus birds? Maybe you do. I don't. You and your dog latinijral can slink away in shame or post here further bitching about your honor. It doesn't matter now. The truth is there for all to see. You'll just look even more ridiculous sticking to your supernatural claim.

The second assumption Harter was talking about was that you had the ability to tell just what the heck you were looking at. That assumption was clearly wrong. Go smoke some more of whatever dope it is that made you see that imaginary "hat shaped" object.

 

[Guest]

Re: My hero!

Thanks Blue Monk

I am not going to tell you my hero like randi`s fans.

Finally you find the OK referencial video. It is the second one.

Remember that i saw a professional image on a tv station, and i saw the object fliying inthru the smoke, get in the building and get out with a high speed.

This are Blue Monk words about the second video:
This could be the clip Harter saw or one similar to it.

The whole clip can be viewed from a page dedicated to the World Trade Center attacks at Vivace Technologies where I found this clip or it can be viewed directly off of my server here

This clip obviously is from the tape Carlos has or from a video shot from almost the identical location and angle.

Please note the object can be seen entering from the left.
**************************************************

Now the next step for everybody here is:



OPEN YOUR EYES...THE PARANORMAL OBJECT IS THERE

Well work Blue Monk.

 

[Wyrd1]

Nope it's a bird.

 

[Fade]

WHY THE HOLY ◊◊◊◊ IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING ON ><

 

[Guest]

WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?

Did you even follow the link? I am sure Bidlack will agree with these shots. The film comparisons I’ve offered show overwhelming evidence that your object is simply a bird.

If your event were actually passing through the first tower then that should be plainly visible on ALL videos of the event. It is only on your perspective because it is simply a bird that flew into the camera range at that moment.

I don’t know what link he used.

And for the next ten times you ask that same question that no one except Harter can answer.

I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know.

It is in front of BOTH buildings. It is a bird.

No one lied to you. Your claim is simply not correct. Easy to disprove.

Harter’s job was not to analyze your tape.

Harter’s job was to analyze your application.

Your application was to a contest not for free and complete analysis of your tape.

Had Harter found information the supported your claim then that would have warranted a closer look at your tape.

But he immediately found evidence that you had no claim.

Case closed.

It’s a bird.

That is why a large object swooping from the sky and passing through one of the largest structures on earth at a time when the world’s media was focused at that exact spot does not show up on any other video. It’s not there.

You have no claim. There is nothing supernatural happening here.

Hi Blue Monk:

I understand your bad humor, don't worry.

You simple can not answer the questions about Harter's lies or mistakes in his answer to my application.

Did you discovered something new? No, The internet is full of that shots. Of course I saw "your link" ;and waht I found? the same argument I put in my application : READ IT:
"It is not a bird or an insect crossing the space between the cameraman and the towers, because the image of the paranormal event is not seen against the wall of the first tower while passing by it."
PUT A PICTURE OF YOUR "BIRD " against the wall.You can also use photoshop and enlarge your bird, ask Latin.

But in your effort to defend Harter position you said:"Please note the object can be seen entering from the left. "
I already said that in my application:"In one of the several TV shots of the second tower impact, taped and broadcast by most of TV channels of the world, THE PRESENCE OF A HAT-SHAPED PARANORMAL ACTIVITY is observed. In its trajectory through the smoke, it enters the hole left by the first plane (north tower) and gets out the other side of it, giving the false impression that it “passes behind the tower”. It is possible, though with difficulty, to “see the image of the paranormal activity” moving inside the smoke cloud in the opposite direction of the shifting smoke. We recommend that the shot is watched in a frame by frame slow motion mode."


Don't worry I also don't know the link Harter "studied" to make his "assumption" and answer my application.

You said:"Harter’s job was not to analyze your tape.
Harter’s job was to analyze your application."

But remember Harter did analize the tape. He used the same method you used , a link on the internet.

Harter did answer my application based in that poor method:"there is nothing supernatural taking place, a "bird" "could" certainly be the culprit." Of course he was most worried like you in the money and not to do a correct ananlisis.

Why you did not post a picture of "the bird in front of the towers"?
Just because you can't.Or maybe you can trick it(remember is digitized)
But why you did not posted that picture?, so everyone in this forum can see "the bird" clearly "in front of the towers"

Your case is closed Blue Monk. Don't worry you don't need to answer the questions about Harter's lies and mistakes, now focus on "your own link".Say hello to Bidlack.

Thanks,
S&S

P.S. What is paranormal? You don't need to answer this one. Maybe James Randi

 

[Patricio Elicer]

Excellent job Blue Monk!

The "mystery" has been unveiled once and for all. IT IS A BIRD!..., the flapping wings are clearly discernible, I have no doubt it's a bird.

Carlos, IT IS A BIRD!..., you got both things wrong: first, your claim doen't qualify for the million, and second, there's nothing paranormal whatsoever in that shot.

Case closed.

 

[Guest]

Excellent job Blue Monk!

The "mystery" has been unveiled once and for all. IT IS A BIRD!..., the flapping wings are clearly discernible, I have no doubt it's a bird.

Carlos, IT IS A BIRD!..., you got both things wrong: first, your claim doen't qualify for the million, and second, there's nothing paranormal whatsoever in that shot.

Case closed.

:

Patricio; hola :

Nice to have you again and happy for a while, but tell me why "your bird " on that link on internet:i"s not seen against the wall of the first tower while passing by it." after your" bird "entered in the hole as I said in my application? You can put a picture too of that moment.

Maybe because a "black object" turns invisible against a clear wall?

Why don't you enlarge your "bird"?

Thanks,
S&S

 

[Guest]

EL CASO ESTA MAS ABIERTO QUE NUNCA

Excellent job Blue Monk!

The "mystery" has been unveiled once and for all. IT IS A BIRD!..., the flapping wings are clearly discernible, I have no doubt it's a bird.


Case closed.

Pato, ò eres tarado ò eres otro perro màs.
Que crees??? que con tan sòlo decir que es un pàjaro, el objeto paranormal se convierte en pàjaro.

El excelente trabajo de Blue Monk nos trajo como novedad un nuevo video que fue transmitido en vivo por la ABC, y ahì puedes comprobar que el objeto paranormal viene desde la parte superior izquierda a travès del humo, se mete en la primera torre y sale. Se puede comprobar que no tapa la pared blanca.
Te da miedo comentar.

 

[compjan]

Futility

Carlos, its time for you to face what in the U.S. is called a "Reality Check".

Regardless of what you believe is in the video:

1 - No skeptic on this forum will ever accept that it is a paranormal event. You will not convince anyone here.

2 - The JREF will never accept your claim. Neither do they even care. They have forgotten all about it.

3 - Your continued efforts to promote your beliefs in this issue will never win you respect or admiration. Few people in the world will ever believe in your "paranormal hat".

Sorry, but that's reality as I see it. And I'm certain that all but a handful of this thread's readers will agree with me. These are harsh blows to your worldview and your aspirations, but you need to face them in order to improve. Kepler did it with his belief in divine circular planetary orbits, you can too.

If you wish to continue posting on this thread, be my guest. Just understand that you are going nowhere.

Take care, and best wishes in your next adventure.

CompJan

 

[Patricio Elicer]

tell me why "your bird " on that link on internet:i"s not seen against the wall of the first tower while passing by it

There's a simple explanation for that. If you look carefully to the animation, you'll see that the bird is not continuously seen along its trajectory. I guess it has something to do with the frame rate or the shutter speed of the camera, but the fact is that there are gaps in the movie where the bird is not visible. It turned out that one of those gaps coincided precisely with the moment the bird passed in front of the building.


[edited to fix minor details]

 

[PinkRabbit]

Okay, so I've now seen a broadcast quality tape of this footage on an editing rig (one of my buddies works for a local tv news division and he finds this stuff interesting so he found the clip and showed it to me on his off hours for fun -- he is, btw, neither much of a believer, nor a skeptic, just very middle of the road). We watched it several times, slow mo'd it, watched some more, discussed, etc. Took probably an hour with it.

And I'm sorry Carlos, but I've gotta tell you that we both concluded that the object is well in front of both buildings (probably no more than a hundred yards from the camers). The blurriness is most likely due to both its speed, and the fact that it's out of the focal range of the camera, which is set for a long shot, making any foregrounded objects out of focus. However, if you watch carefully, you can see the shadow all the way across the screen. It's hard and took several viewings to really see the path, but it's definitely there, and does not disappear. That it goes through the building is simply an optical illusion in my opinion.

One thing I think may have fooled you is that from your description you studied it either in extreme slow motion or even frame by frame and it does appear to disappear when viewed that way, since there's so much turmoil in the background, and the motion blur leaves the object quite light colored, and not much differentiated. It's very easy to lose track of the object in the stills. It's still there if you look very carefully, but it's actually easier to track it at something approaching normal speed, since your eye is following it from point to point.

Is it a bird? That would be my guess, but things were so nuts, it could also be something flying from a high rise window or somesuch. We couldn't really tell as it's too blurred. It does however, appear to slow slightly in the lower portion of the arc, which would be consistent with a bird coming in for a landing, and would also explain why it suddenly becomes more more visible. By slowing, it's less motion blurred.

It's nearly impossible to be certain though, since there's no way of acurately gauging depth with video and it'ss pretty low resolution at best. My friend also felt there was some possibility it wasn't anything physical and was simply an in-camera artifact of some kind, since video cameras do glitch now and then. He didn't feel it was a high probability, since those more often show up as flares (bright spots) than shadows, but shadows are not unheard of by any means.

The Mpeg linked from the page above is a good representative in my opinion. Obviously, not nearly as sharp and clear as a tape, but a pretty good version. To my eyes it just looked like a lower resolution version of the exact same image (since you've suggested it might be doctored in some way). In truth, on the tape we looked at the object was more clearly in the foreground, but it's still apparent if you look carefully at the mpeg. The gifs aren't an especially good representative, simply because they lose the subtleties and the object does nearly disappear except for the latter portion of its path. From that I would have guessed it was debris from the plane.

And just because you like to point out that you're a professional artist, yadda, yadda ... I'll add that I've got an undergrad in tv/film and worked in the industry for several years, though these days I'm a graphic artist and my friend has been a field videographer, producer, and video editor, so we did actually know what we were doing and looking at.

Barb

 

[SFB]

Re: Futility

Carlos, its time for you to face what in the U.S. is called a "Reality Check".

Regardless of what you believe is in the video:

1 - No skeptic on this forum will ever accept that it is a paranormal event. You will not convince anyone here.

2 - The JREF will never accept your claim. Neither do they even care. They have forgotten all about it.

3 - Your continued efforts to promote your beliefs in this issue will never win you respect or admiration. Few people in the world will ever believe in your "paranormal hat".

Sorry, but that's reality as I see it. And I'm certain that all but a handful of this thread's readers will agree with me. These are harsh blows to your worldview and your aspirations, but you need to face them in order to improve. Kepler did it with his belief in divine circular planetary orbits, you can too.

If you wish to continue posting on this thread, be my guest. Just understand that you are going nowhere.

Take care, and best wishes in your next adventure.

CompJan

Yes, exactly my sentiment. Carlos, give it up. And a resounding hurrah!!! to Fade's last post. (Just chiming in to what I too consider wasted space on the JREF Forum.) Carlos, please stop, there's no point in continuing, you are through, finished, (and yes, I have been through all you have to offer, so spare me the arguments). I hope this thread dies a quick death, but I know it won't. Geez, just look at Edge's idiotic accomplishments; utter waste of space. I'm not arguing against arguing with these bone heads, but there is a point where it should just quit, be ignored. Carlos is clearly an idiot, as is Edge and others. No I'm not arguing for restricting these posts, I suppose I'll rant the common rant, "Don't feed the Trolls." There really does come a point where further consideration is no longer worth consideration.


edited because I wanted to.....

 

[Guest]

VIDEO OF ABC

I am not going to tell you my hero like randi`s fans.

Finally you find the OK referencial video. It is the second one.

Remember that i saw a professional image on a tv station, and i saw the object fliying inthru the smoke, get in the building and get out with a high speed.

This are Blue Monk words about the second video:
This could be the clip Harter saw or one similar to it.

The whole clip can be viewed from a page dedicated to the World Trade Center attacks at Vivace Technologies where I found this clip or it can be viewed directly off of my server here

This clip obviously is from the tape Carlos has or from a video shot from almost the identical location and angle.

Please note the object can be seen entering from the left.
*****************************************************************************

Now the next step for everybody here is:



OPEN YOUR EYES...THE PARANORMAL OBJECT IS THERE

Well work Blue Monk.

Is this your bird Patricio Elicer????

 

[Guest]

ONLY WITH HARTER'S METHOD

There's a simple explanation for that. If you look carefully to the animation, you'll see that the bird is not continuously seen along its trajectory. I guess it has something to do with the frame rate or the shutter speed of the camera, but the fact is that there are gaps in the movie where the bird is not visible. It turned out that one of those gaps coincided precisely with the moment the bird passed in front of the building.


[edited to fix minor details]

Patricio:
I am really glad for your come back to the thread. You are the author of this thread , not me.

I am just defending the name you put it on it : Carlos Swett.

So many replies and so many views, and we are NOW at a point just to start again the thread, the way you should did it originally, not only prejudging about the e-mails bettween Randi and me , but also posting my application and the links to see the "bird, the plane or superman". With all of those evidences , members have now the chance to "beleive" whatever they want, It is not a poll of what it is ? a bird or a paranormal thing? no , that kind of stupids polls don't prove nothing.We or I am debating facts:

I said in my application I send a tape , a referential tape with the same shot from different networks, one of that was the ABC shot (Blue Monk's link) . Nothing new.

I said in the application I studied the tape with proffesional equipments , at tv studios, with their own 3/4 tapes. In the tape I send to the JREF is also the interview of that session transmitted in my country in the locals news .

When you use that kind of method and that kind of tape and that kind of equipments you will see you never have the problems you posted here:,Patricio's :" you'll see that the bird is not continuously seen along its trajectory. I guess it has something to do with the frame rate or the shutter speed of the camera, but the fact is that there are gaps in the movie where the bird is not visible."

Yes Patricio you are right, you are using the internet video, but with the other method, the one I did, "your bird" can be seen in an extremely slow "frame by frame" in a continous "line"with no jumps or gaps, only interrupted after "the bird" enters in the hole and then appear from the other side of the hole, also in the air with the clear sky in the back if you use my method (not Harter's) "your bird" is really amazing in its form, again travelling with no "jumps"or "gaps".

Is not my fault that Harter with the aprooval of Randi used that internet "method" to made the analisis.

It is not my fault that Harter lied or had some mistakes or errors in his answer to my application.

It is not my fault that they are still on silence about my notarized application and the answer they gave me.

Think about it Patricio, I don't want anybody to "beleive " me, I am sure of what I am writing.
I am just posting only facts.
I will respect Randi's "beleivers"

Thanks.
Carlos Swett (S&S)

 

[alfaniner]

Hey, S&S & latinjral

Here's a "bird" I know you can see!

 

[compjan]

Hey, S&S & latinjral

Here's a "bird" I know you can see!

Now there's a "Reality Check!" Well Done!

CompJan

 

[Guest]

JUST THAT???

Now there's a "Reality Check!" Well Done!

CompJan

Hi Compjan:

Maybe if you put some arguments I will "beleive" you.

Just put it , you can, now you have a basis., just read my quotes.

Thanks,
S&S

 

[DeliveringVito]

Great Job BlueMonk and PinkRabbit!

I'm glad somebody had the time and patience to do that sort of in-depth research. Unfortunately, the conclusions are very much the same as was theorized by everyone way back around page 3 of this thread! Frame rate, depth of focus, motion blur = bird.

Despite the obviousness of this to everyone else, I have great doubt that Mr. Swett will ever admit it. ...something about "Hell freezing over"???! Now, the argument turns to Harter being a liar, blah, blah, blah. Sore loser.

I've followed this thread with much amusement. Thanks to everyone for entertaining me.

(I've said that like I actually believe this thread will end?!)

DV

 

[Wyrd1]

Nope it's just a bird Carlos. You can look at it with all your "professional" equipment but it's still going to be a bird. Latin can post his distorted picture of the hat on a million times - and he probably will - but it's a bird. It flaps it's wings at the end of the video.

It's a bird!