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The C Word

As an occasional performance poet, I use the word in a poem I'll often end a show with. The poem points out all the things that words can't do, and then one thing they can: they can shock. Having said they can shock, I call the audience '*****************' (if that's bleeped out, 'people who love their mothers...too much'), which of course doesn't shock them at all. Then I tell them I like to hunt, which raises an eyebrow or two. Then this line, which never fails:
Try "Sucking on a used tampon straight from your mother's ****"
You were warned...

I'm used to it now, but the first few times I did it in performance, it shocked me, and I wrote it. I'd forget the next line, because part of my mind was screaming "What are you doing?! You just said '****' on stage!"
 
Totally misunderstood this thread from its title. I thought it was about the really disgusting C word Conservative or, even worse, Cameron.

Never understood why people with the surname Hunt call their child Michael. It can sound very rude if you don't pronounce it carefully. :D
 
dafydd said:
I never use the word unless I am actually talking about the piece of anatomy in question. To use it as an insult is an insult to women.
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What if you want to insult a woman?

This is a topical thread for me, since I've recently had an argument with my wife about whether "****" (#15 at Prof. Yaffle's link to Ben Goldacre's blog) is a worse word than "bugger" (#21).

I'm apparently right, but not by as much of a margin as I thought I'd be. She argued that "if you look at what 'bugger' means that's a much worse thing", which I thought was missing the point.

Edit: I see the forum's word filter agrees with me and doesn't think 'bugger' is a strong word. I suppose inevitably there must be a strong degree of regional variation when it comes to assessing sweariness.
 
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richardm said:
This is a topical thread for me, since I've recently had an argument with my wife about whether "****" (#15 at Prof. Yaffle's link to Ben Goldacre's blog) is a worse word than "bugger" (#21).
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Spastic?

I remember comparing words with a friend who came from a different part of the country to me and finding that often the order of offensiveness was completely reversed. For me piss off was stronger than sod off which was stronger than bugger off. For her it was the opposite and bugger was a very offensive word. Where I come from its a commonplace fairly mild word and I had been using it for many years before I discovered what it meant.
 
dafydd said:
I don't get offended by it, I just don't understand why it is an insult. As Billy Connolly once said:
' Vagina is a nice word, and a nice place too. If you saw on the back of your cornflake packet ''Enter this simple competition and win two weeks in Vagina'', you'd say, ''I think we'll go in for that'.
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Anything can be an insult, this word is no more specifically degrading to women, than calling someone a knob is degrading to men, or calling someone a bastard is degrading to folks without known fathers.

If people didn't get offended folks wouldn't use it as an insult, something else would take its place. But some folks think that you can remove an insult by just getting really offended, but it doesn't work like that.
 
dafydd said:
I don't understand why people choose to use it. One of my teachers, whom I had a great deal of respect for, used to say 'swearing betrays an empty mind'. Although the air does turn blue if I hit my thumb with a hammer. Nobody is perfect.
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Folks who say that have simply not understood nor mastered swearing, or are trying to find a way to cloak their own aversion to it in an veil of intellectualisim. As far as language goes it is one of the more complicated and varied bits of it, and has a perfectly reasonable place in conversation.

Sometimes i make love, sometimes i have sex , and sometimes, i ****. All of those, give different meanings as to what i am doing, and give further insight into my intent of speech, depending on which one i use.

And in a similar fashion, sometimes someone is a jerk, sometimes someone is a bad person and sometimes someone is a ****. Again, all different meanings, all have a specific role in describing exactly the type of person i am talking about.

They we can get into the many reasons to swear. Sometimes its for comedic effect that cannot be accomplished by other means, watch an episode of Trailer Park boys, or Bottom Live, that is bleeped to get a nice clear idea of what i mean, or if your a bit older, George Carlin, or Dennis Leary.

Sometimes it is to express anger, to indicate to a person that some person, or situation is aggravating you enough that you feel it is necessary to break the **** barrier in conversation.

Sometimes, as above it is descriptive.

Then we get into how much it varies between social groups. Swearing simple? Just look at the word in the op. Some groups, you can use it as a greeting on par with " Mates" " Dude" " Bro" or " guys.", use it in a different group in this way an your being directly insulting, whether you know it or not.

Further, just look at how much one has to keep up with swearing, how much it has evolved. Remember when " Dick" couldn't be said on primetime network television? If one does not know the nuances of the word, one may use it and not get any effect out of it. Calling someone a Dick now, just doesn't have the same punch it did 20 years ago, and to be a successful practitioner of the vulgar arts , one must know this and adjust their swearing appropriately.

Finally we even get into vulgar slang, usually highly individualized to various groups. As an example:

If i were to state that during a trip to a local pub, i was served oysters, leading to me leaving a Mexican Baseball. One may not immediately realize the intent of the phrase, if they are not familiar with the vulgar slang used. And one may be surprised to discover that the situation i was referring to is having my glass spit in, and in retaliation leaving feces, covered in mustard and pepper, in the top tank of the toilet.

Swearing, for the empty minded? Not even close, it is the linguistic equivalent of a martial art. Sure any person can go around and punch someone in the face, but its takes dedication and intellect to use it right.
 
Antiquehunter said:
At least one feminist I know has recommended to me a book called '****: A declaration of independence' - a movement to reclaim the c-word. Kind of like a short f-word that british people use to call cigarettes is sometimes used in the GLBT community to take the 'power' out of the word.
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Stripping away the offense is the only way to get the word used less, or even to have it crinkle up and blow away in the sands of vulgarity. People use words because of the effect, take away the effect, take away the power of the word.

But some folks think that by saying " I really hate this word, it upsets me and gets me all into a tizzy." , that is going to stop it. That is the equivalent of getting into a barfight, standing bowlegged and saying " Man it would suck to get kicked in the stones right now.".
 
NobbyNobbs said:
I don't know, I think the F word has just as much auditory venom but is more widely accepted, while the N word is much softer coming off the tongue but is nearly as taboo.

Something has occurred to me though. I haven't looked at the whole list, but for the curses I'm thinking of off the top of my head, the following is generally true: the more acceptable curse words have other meanings and contexts in which they are used. For example, F and S are bodily functions (useful, common ones, too) and can be used in a variety of contexts that don't insult anyone ("F this S, I'm going home."). C and N are exclusively insults. I wonder if the other meanings/uses have sucked some of the shock value away?


(I have to add that writing "the C word" and "the N word" make me feel childish, but if I were to write them out I'd feel the need for a shower.)
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As to further delve into the nuanced and complicated nature of swearing...

If find rap has produced 2 phrases, (at least) commonly thought of as offensive, that have great places in the vocabulary.

The first is the variant of the n-word , spelled with an A. This, word in the method used to indicate disdain is a great way to accurately describe someone who is acting in a fashion that is silly or dumb without being malicious.

For example. I could say " Jim is a friend of mine, but his choice to jump his bike after drinking was rather silly." , or i could say " ***** thought it would be a good idea to show off drunk." both phrases saying essentially the same thing, but one using less words to do so , and getting across the disdain for the act quite nicely.

Then there is my personal favorite, for all the **** rap takes for being vacuous, i think that the phrase " Pause" and its companion " No Homo" are brilliant uses of the english language, and far from being offensive to those who are homosexual, are a great tool.

To explain for those unfamiliar with the phrases.

Pause, is used to indicate someone has said something that could easily be considered homosexual, but that , more than likely the person uttering it did not realize. As an example, if i were to say, " Wow, your looking pretty ripped today Jim, all that working out has paid off." someone could say " Pause" , in order to inform me that said comment may be taken in the wrong way, in a manner that is not awkward , but rather humorous, and opens the door for me to either confirm , or deny that said comment was intended as hitting on someone.

Its companion "No Homo" , is somewhat similar, but used immediately after someone realizes they said something that could be misconstrued as homosexual, for example, i may say, " You know, anyone tell you you look like Tom Cruse? No, Homo" to indicate that the comment in question is not designed as a come on, but rather a simple statement of fact that the person in question looks like tom cruise.

As i bi guy, i absolutely love these phrases. They are humorous, and have great potential for levity, if taken to a sarcastic extreme, as in using them for things that are either borderline or absurd in regards to their uses, for example, if someone were to describe that on a camping trip they ate mostly sausages and hot dogs, one can get a good laugh by stating "pause" or asking if someone would like the chance to wedge in a "No homo" at the end of the sentence.

And from a more practical standpoint, they are not only a great way for me to differentiate when i am just making a comment, and hitting on a gent, but serve to bring up the subject of one's orientation, in a non confrontational or awkward way. For example, if i were to say, " The guy who plays Crixus in Spartacus , has an almost perfect body." and someone were to reply with " Pause." i then have the easy ability to say something of the nature of " Nope, no pause needed, that came out as intended.", and in one sentence inform the folks listening that indeed i do like a bloke here and there, while not having to go into a long winded explanation.

These phrases take a lot of **** in the gay community, and in fact the hatred for these phrases was one of the reasons i no longer post in a certain gay rights forum ( i had a rather large thread on this a while back. Long story short, they gave up logic in the face of being offended at anything and everything in order to bully folks into submission. These phrases were only part of that.). And they don't even need to be " Taken back" , like the N-word, they are perfectly fine the way they are.
 
In some places in Latin America, the word "chucha" would be the equivalent to the c word. However, it is commonly used as an expletive, similar to damn or s***. It's never used as a way to insult women.
 
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pristerognathus said:
There is an element of anatomical derision/misogyny in the word even now when it's use appears quite common, although I suspect that it has been used quite freely in past times, its just the people who used probably didn't write an awful lot, so we have no record. Personally I think it is the pronunciation which is part of its power, it is quite violent when spoken.

It's an old english word and has apparently been noted in such pleasant street names as Grope***t Lane in medieval times, assumed to refer to areas where prostitutes worked.
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dafydd said:
Chaucer used it. And in the fourteenth century the street in London where the ladies of the night hung out was called Grope**** Lane. There was a street with that name in every major town.
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The C-word isn't attested in Old English and Chaucer didn't use it. Here is a discussion of the history of Carlin's 7 dirty words. NSFW language, obviously. Discussion of the c-word begins at around the 14 minute mark.
 
dafydd said:
Chaucer used it. And in the fourteenth century the street in London where the ladies of the night hung out was called Grope**** Lane. There was a street with that name in every major town.
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Just found this post.

In Trowbridge, Wiltshire, UK there is a short alley called Red Hat Lane.

For a long time I've wondered if it is connected with the well known phrase: "Red hat, no drawers."? With all the obvious implications.

Any comments anyone?
 
Lucian said:
The C-word isn't attested in Old English and Chaucer didn't use it. Here is a discussion of the history of Carlin's 7 dirty words. NSFW language, obviously. Discussion of the c-word begins at around the 14 minute mark.
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Miller's Tale-"Pryvely he caught her by the queynte''

The Wife Of Bath-"For certeyn, olde dotard, by your leave/You shall have queynte right enough at eve''

That's good enough for me.
 
dafydd said:
Miller's Tale-"Pryvely he caught her by the queynte''

The Wife Of Bath-"For certeyn, olde dotard, by your leave/You shall have queynte right enough at eve''

That's good enough for me.
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That's the Q-word, not the C-word...
 
dafydd said:
Miller's Tale-"Pryvely he caught her by the queynte''

The Wife Of Bath-"For certeyn, olde dotard, by your leave/You shall have queynte right enough at eve''

That's good enough for me.
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It's a euphemism and a pun; it's not the same word.
 
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