The bleeding edge...

[exarch]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
I did not say that they were experts, but were very well known homeopaths. Actually, some of them are experts in their fields with Melissa Assilem being extremely well know for her treatment of all women's disorders and especially the menopause. She has written a great book called Women Ripening Through the Menopause. She is also American, but lives over here now. Massimo, the Italian doctor is another great homeopath. He too trained in conventional medicine in Italy and then trained in homeopathy and practices homeopathy exclusively now. He can cite hundreds of cured cases that he has on his data bases. He also carries out the conventional medical diagnosis and tests to go with it.

[SNIP]

Also there's Tricky, a JREF poster who could tell you more avbout invisible pink unicorns than anyone in the world, with the exception perhaps of James Randi himself. James Randi has even written several books on the subject.

If this doesn't prove that invisible pink unicorns really exist, nothing will. I mean, if these experts say so ...

 

[exarch]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
It is very powerful and should never be misused in anyway by someone who does not know what they are doing.

Is that an official rule of homeopathy? Because if it is, I contend that every homeopath in the world is violating it. So far, there hasn't been even ONE homeopath who could tell us what homeopathy is without first making the assumption that homeopathy works and "like cures like" is a natural law (which it isn't) or at least a commonly accepted truth (which it isn't either).

so if none of them know what exactly homeopathy is, or how it works, then I have to conclude that basically none of them know what the f*ck they are doing.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Sarah-I

1. You are a liar. You initially claimed to have the qualification that the Fac Hom hands out. Now you claim to be a nurse. Funny that.

2. You throw up chaff to avoid the questions you need to answer. Explain the fallacy of appeal to authority. Please use the link I gave you. Please corroborate your claim to have seen Type 1 diabets cured. If that was true the world would be beating downn the door to homeopathy and the Indian homeopath would damn well know that as well, so it's pretty obviously another one of your lies and misreperesntations

3. If liars and frauds are the best that can defend homeopathy then we need do no more.

The shrill panic of you replies does not lend you credibility.

 

[Rolfe]

See, you can't name anyone who has trained in homeopathy and is now not practicing can you?

Well, I can, actually.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Well, I can, actually.

Thanks. I hoped you'd remember his name because I couldn't and I meant to ask you in my last post then forgot!

So, NHCoraHSarah. There's one recovered woo for you.

Now about you and your MFHom... LIAR LIAR LIAR.

 

[Sarah-I]

Rolfe,

This is extremely sad that you can only cite one name out of many. Also, he stated that he only took 3 out of the 4 courses available. He never took any exam and does not have a homeopathic qualification, so that hardly counts I think.

What I was asking was do you know of anyone who was properly qualified in homeopathy and holds a homeopathic qualification who has given up practicing? This guy, whoever he is most certainly does not count.

Monkey, Monkey

I have never claimed to have an MFHom qualification at all. I am a member of the Faculty of Homeopathy however and do hold the qualification LFHom. This is a Licenced member of the Faculty. This is gained after taking what is called the Primary Health Care Examination. Further training is available and includes the DFHom qualification, which is a Diploma and the Membership exam, MFHom. The VetMFHom exists for vets too.

Are you quite clear on that now or does it need more explanation that is even clearer so that you can understand?

 

[Rolfe]

Some Famous Homeopaths the World Over

[snip short and selective list of deluded woos]

There are many more names to be added to this list the world over. So please tell me why, with so many people practicing homeopathy the world over, what makes you think that they have got it so wrong?

Most of these homeopaths have been practicing for 20 years or more, with Sheilagh Creasy probably having practiced for about 40 years in total. How on earth can so many people have got this so wrong? They are all still practicing homeopaths too.

This is right down to Kumar's worst, "mass existing and well distributed" bollocks. Wim, too, when he's really on the run, has a habit of deserting the thread where he's getting a pasting and starting new ones about all the deluded vets who have embraced homoeopathy. (Of course he despises vets as evil allopaths, nevertheless he's so in awe of the qualifications these guys have he seems practically to worship them. I've never quite understood this.)

Sarah, it's remarkably easy to persuade oneself that a useless intervention is having a beneficial effect. Properly trained doctors and vets know they always have to be on their guard to avoid being fooled by this. The plain fact is that the most important effect of the homoeopathy courses is to undermine this training, and teach the students to believe that every coincidental improvement is down to them. Plus of course to imagine improvement where none has actually occurred. (How do I know this? Because that is how every homoeopath I ever met practises.)

Add to that a system of excuses in which every possible outcome can be interpreted to support the assumption that the homoeopathy is working (aggravations, healing crisis and so on), and you have a very powerful delusion. It's a heady brew, because the deluded are convinced that they're helping people, and this tends to make them feel either very benevolent or very powerful depending on the character. I think it's worse than heroin to give up on.

And Sarah is obviously a serious addict already.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I have never claimed to have an MFHom qualification at all.

Oh, back to pretending you're not Naturalhealth/Homeoskeptic. Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

Rolfe.

 

[Prester John]

Rolfe,

This is extremely sad that you can only cite one name out of many. Also, he stated that he only took 3 out of the 4 courses available. He never took any exam and does not have a homeopathic qualification, so that hardly counts I think.

What I was asking was do you know of anyone who was properly qualified in homeopathy and holds a homeopathic qualification who has given up practicing? This guy, whoever he is most certainly does not count.

cut

Thats quite funny, you asked for a single name, you got one, then suddenly thats not enough. Them goalposts are parked on the back of a juggernaut and are heading down the motorway!

 

[Rolfe]

This is extremely sad that you can only cite one name out of many. Also, he stated that he only took 3 out of the 4 courses available. He never took any exam and does not have a homeopathic qualification, so that hardly counts I think.

Name one, you said. I did.

This one happens to be verifiable. There was another one, a very similar letter a year or so earlier than that. A vet related how she was lacking in confidence when she first graduated, and concerned that there were patients she felt she couldn't really help. She thought, "there must be some other way". She took all the homoeopathy courses, and practised homoeopathy. However, she managed to avoid checking her brain in at the door, and she realised that there was nothing there but coincidental recovery and wishful thinking. As she grew in confidence practising proper medicine, she gradually realised that homoeopathy was adding nothing to what she could offer clients, and she gave up completely.

Unfortunately I didn't keep that issue of the journal, and it's not one available on the web. There are in fact very few VetMFHoms, 41 at the last count, many of whom are very elderly. How many more have jumped ship? Well, as Benguin said, the problem is that they tend to be quite embarrassed and keep a low profile. I have given you details of the two trained homoeopaths who have stood up to be counted. Surprise, surprise, you don't want to count them.

Rolfe.

 

[Sarah-I]

No Rolfe,

The list I presented were all the names of homeopaths worldwide that I could think of off the top of my head. There are hundreds more to be added to that list and it contains medical doctors too, who have been PROPERLY trained in conventional medicine. This contains British, European and American doctors too.

Bye the way, Wim is a great homeopath with many years of experience and offers excellent advice.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Bye the way, Wim is a great homeopath with many years of experience and offers excellent advice.

Surely to be truly homeopathetic you want someone with as little experience as possible, as that will have a much greater effect?

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

No Rolfe,

The list I presented were all the names of homeopaths worldwide that I could think of off the top of my head. There are hundreds more to be added to that list and it contains medical doctors too, who have been PROPERLY trained in conventional medicine. This contains British, European and American doctors too.

100,000 European doctors! She's resorted to quoting Xanta now.

Bingo. I win. Right Rolfe that's £5 you owe me. Benguin can pay student rates of £1. Zep can transmit a can of Foster's via the internet to me. Hans can send a Carlsberg by the same route.

OK people, I'm transmitting the next key phrase by telepathy now. Place your hands on your screens and feel the warmth of my sincerity.

Away we go for the next round.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

NHCoraHSarah

LIAR LIAR LIAR

Monkey, Monkey

I have never claimed to have an MFHom qualification at all. I am a member of the Faculty of Homeopathy however and do hold the qualification LFHom. This is a Licenced member of the Faculty. This is gained after taking what is called the Primary Health Care Examination. Further training is available and includes the DFHom qualification, which is a Diploma and the Membership exam, MFHom. The VetMFHom exists for vets too.

Are you quite clear on that now or does it need more explanation that is even clearer so that you can understand?

The other one, has, I believe, got bells on...

Naturalhealth
Senior Member



Joined: 08_March_04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Online
Posts: 403


Posted: 25_July_04 at 20:05 | IP Logged



Yes, Rolfe, you are perfectly correct there. We don't
want your advice at all thanks. Fly back to Randiland
and go and kill some more animals. You seem to
do that very well don't you!!

O, by the way, I don't know what you mean about
'real' medicine. Homeopathy is 'real' medicine and
Wim knows exactly what he is doing. He has treated
many animal cases and they have recovered very
well.

So just go away and spread your malicious gossip
elsewhere. Why stay where you are not wanted?

Go and cause trouble somewhere else. You are not
welcome here!!

__________________
Medical Homeopath MFHom "


LIAR LIAR LIAR


Nearly forgot...


LIAR LIAR LIAR at all.

Thank you, people. Move along please. Nothing to see except a liar with her pants on fire.

Always a pleasure to lower the debate to your level NHCoraHSarah.

Now about those Aztecs...
Oh, and that diabetic...

(The verb is license so the past tense is licensed, by the way.)

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Funny thing. NH doesn't have her Sig Line at Hpathy any more. Thank goodness for the old hard disc and its Black Museum of homeopathic travesties.

 

[MRC_Hans]

100,000 European doctors! She's resorted to quoting Xanta now.

Bingo. I win. Right Rolfe that's £5 you owe me. Benguin can pay student rates of £1. Zep can transmit a can of Foster's via the internet to me. Hans can send a Carlsberg by the same route.

*snip*

I don't recall giving you odds on that one. That is like betting the sun will rise soemwhere on Earth within the next 24 hours.

But you are welcome to a Carlsberg if you are so inclined. I would recommend this, though:

http://www.tuborg.dk/kampagner/classic_2004/brand/

It's in Danish, but you'll get the idea .

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

Funny thing. NH doesn't have her Sig Line at Hpathy any more. Thank goodness for the old hard disc and its Black Museum of homeopathic travesties.

Still there in this thread....

Rolfe.

 

[exarch]

Originally posted by Sarah-I
Rolfe,

This is extremely sad that you can only cite one name out of many. Also, he stated that he only took 3 out of the 4 courses available. He never took any exam and does not have a homeopathic qualification, so that hardly counts I think.

I predicted she'd not accept one example as proof. Yet we are supposed to accept one example of some patient who got better, presumably as a result of a remedy, to be unmistakable proof that homeopathy works.

It's called a double standard NaturalHealth/Cora/HomeoSkeptic/Sarah, and you don't get to blame us for providing anecdotal evidence until you yourself can do better than hearsay and gossip about people getting better against all odds (like some miracle case your sister's husband's barber's nephew once heard of years ago when he was in the army, to give you an idea of exactly how credible anecdotal evidence really is).

Oh, by the way, with only, what, 40-something homeopathic vets in the UK, it's not surprising to find only one or two instances of one having the courage to admit his/her mistake. That's 5% of all veterinary homeopaths in the UK you know

 

[Rolfe]

Right Rolfe that's £5 you owe me.

Which patient's bill would you like it deducted from? (You didn't seriously think I was going to pay you out of taxed income, did you?)

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

No Rolfe,

The list I presented were all the names of homeopaths worldwide that I could think of off the top of my head. There are hundreds more to be added to that list and it contains medical doctors too, who have been PROPERLY trained in conventional medicine. This contains British, European and American doctors too.

We know very well there are a lot of deluded idiots around. Your point is? Or are you just channelling Xanta?

So, if we're counting heads, the millions of doctors and vets who know that homoeopathy is complete bunkum outnumbers your woo-club by several orders of magnitude.

I think we win on that one.

Bye the way, Wim is a great homeopath with many years of experience and offers excellent advice.

What, like the cat's fifteen, you'd be better to let her die in agony than take the risk of using real medicine? Wim is a liar (he claims to treat animals in a country where he is legally forbidden from treating animals) and a fraud.

Rolfe.