The "BigUneasy", a different view of New Orleans

[Skeptic Ginger]

Went to the one night showing of this documentary on the flooding of New Orleans tonight. It was completely different from the anniversary of Katrina reruns on the news this week.

"The Big Uneasy"

The most notable things, The Army Corp of Engineers is one screwed up agency and the people of New Orleans are not the pitiful beggars the news media has cherry picked to portray the Katrina disaster.


The Corp, while staffed with knowledgeable engineers, has suffered from 'project managers' being assigned to oversee the science, and a culture of the scientists going along with it. So for example, as the engineering science said Katrina size hurricanes should be expected, the Corp reported that size event was so rare as to be no concern. They then proceded to ignore the science and under build the levees.

The documentary showed how New Orleans suffered a man-made disaster that would not have occurred if not for the MrGo Canal and the inadequate levees the Corp built.

Then the whistleblowers who reported on why the levees failed were punished (fired, etc.) while the people responsible for the failed levees and the cover up were never held accountable.


And on the second matter, I was thinking earlier how the media portrayal of the events following Katrina showed people who appeared to be expecting a handout. It was a false image in many ways. In reality, they were victims of a truly widespread flood, caught off guard since the hurricane wasn't the main event for them, the levees failing all over the city in a short period of time was. It was more like a dam broke than a hurricane.

And those people in the news videos were in some cases not allowed to escape the flooding except to go to the Convention Center and the Dome. Then there was no water and no food for days. You'd think by that time people would have just walked out of the city. But many of them could not get out for a number of reasons they had no control over.

Anyway, in the film they made a point of reminding us there were thousands of examples of people who have helped themselves and each other. The image of just expecting a handout is a totally distorted image.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

I may have related this story here in the past:

I worked as an overnight volunteer coordinator for the Red Cross relief effort at the Dallas Convention Center when the Katrina evacuees came pouring in. Essentially, I handled the influx of volunteers and assigned them to different areas of the Center, or sent them out to outlying site like churches and schools, where Dallas was housing many of the tens of thousands who were coming in.

The NO residents who arrived were stinking, exhausted, completely shattered, many were in utter despair at maybe never seeing their loved ones again, or just facing the uncertainty of not knowing WHERE those loved ones were (I believe, but I may have my facts wrong, that Dallas and Houston took in the lion's share of the evacuees, at least at first).

I saw a city of people sleeping on fold-out cots, trying to regain their dignity while surrounded by 20,000 other people, trying to move on from merely existing to actually attempting to pick up the pieces of their lives again.

For 2 months every night after work, i drove down to the Center and worked all night. I was exhausted, emotionally battered, and eventually picked up amoebic dysentery from helping to hold physically disabled women in my arms as we helped them into the bathrooms and showers (we went through pallets of Purell, but when you have to pick someone up who's covered in the fecal and other toxin-infested sludge that they had to wade in, well, you just can't stay clean).

I'd drive home and cry the entire way.

I don't think any one of us can put ourselves into the mindset of what they were going through. Even working among them for 2 months, I know I never hit the depths of despair that many of them did.

Of course there were going to be some useless wastes of oxygen among the Katrina survivors, but I'd say the staggering majority were simply people who'd had their whole world shattered, and were not asking for handouts. They were asking for help, just like anyone would.

As for the Corp's role in all this, I know I saw a documentary that outlined the same thing, a few years back. It's also been a few years since I've seen it, but I remember watching and appreciating Spike Lee's "When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts". Granted, Spike can be a little... paranoid about the white conspiracy against blacks, but I thought he handled the whole Katrina disaster with a lot of dignity in this documentary.

 

[Alareth]

Actually my biggest gripe is the fact that the media cherry picks things to make it seem that only New Orleans was affected by Katrina.

The Mississippi coast was devastated by Katrina, with entire communities wiped off the face of the Earth, yet it's never more than a footnote whenever Katrina is mentioned.

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood.

 

[Debaser]

It's also been a few years since I've seen it, but I remember watching and appreciating Spike Lee's "When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts". Granted, Spike can be a little... paranoid about the white conspiracy against blacks, but I thought he handled the whole Katrina disaster with a lot of dignity in this documentary.

This documentary is being shown on the BBC this week, we've had parts 1 and 2 already, 3 and 4 are tomorrow I believe. One thing I noticed was that a lot of the news coverage used in the films seems to be from the BBC (I seemed to recognise Matt Frei's voice quite often), and I wondered if this was an attempt by Lee to try to pre-empt accusations of bias or cherry picking by using a credible outside source?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming.

Yeah, she shouldn't have been wearing those sexy shoes and short levys.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Actually my biggest gripe is the fact that the media cherry picks things to make it seem that only New Orleans was affected by Katrina.

The Mississippi coast was devastated by Katrina, with entire communities wiped off the face of the Earth, yet it's never more than a footnote whenever Katrina is mentioned.

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood.

First, the gulf coast has had plenty of coverage.

Second, so you are saying New Orleans deserved the corruption and incompetence of the Army Corp of Engineers?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I may have related this story here in the past:

I worked as an overnight volunteer coordinator for the Red Cross relief effort at the Dallas Convention Center when the Katrina evacuees came pouring in. Essentially, I handled the influx of volunteers and assigned them to different areas of the Center, or sent them out to outlying site like churches and schools, where Dallas was housing many of the tens of thousands who were coming in.

The NO residents who arrived were stinking, exhausted, completely shattered, many were in utter despair at maybe never seeing their loved ones again, or just facing the uncertainty of not knowing WHERE those loved ones were (I believe, but I may have my facts wrong, that Dallas and Houston took in the lion's share of the evacuees, at least at first).

I saw a city of people sleeping on fold-out cots, trying to regain their dignity while surrounded by 20,000 other people, trying to move on from merely existing to actually attempting to pick up the pieces of their lives again.

For 2 months every night after work, i drove down to the Center and worked all night. I was exhausted, emotionally battered, and eventually picked up amoebic dysentery from helping to hold physically disabled women in my arms as we helped them into the bathrooms and showers (we went through pallets of Purell, but when you have to pick someone up who's covered in the fecal and other toxin-infested sludge that they had to wade in, well, you just can't stay clean).

I'd drive home and cry the entire way.

I don't think any one of us can put ourselves into the mindset of what they were going through. Even working among them for 2 months, I know I never hit the depths of despair that many of them did.

Of course there were going to be some useless wastes of oxygen among the Katrina survivors, but I'd say the staggering majority were simply people who'd had their whole world shattered, and were not asking for handouts. They were asking for help, just like anyone would.

As for the Corp's role in all this, I know I saw a documentary that outlined the same thing, a few years back. It's also been a few years since I've seen it, but I remember watching and appreciating Spike Lee's "When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts". Granted, Spike can be a little... paranoid about the white conspiracy against blacks, but I thought he handled the whole Katrina disaster with a lot of dignity in this documentary.

Wow!

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

First, the gulf coast has had plenty of coverage.

Second, so you are saying New Orleans deserved the corruption and incompetence of the Army Corp of Engineers?

Not many, and no, he didn't.

Strawman ftl

 

[rwguinn]

Yeah, she shouldn't have been wearing those sexy shoes and short levys.

NO.
When you build below sea level, you deserve the results of the stupid...

 

[XBoxWarrior]

They were discussing the film today on moderate talk radio in NOLA...they interviewed a public works employee that basically said the pumping stations are still not ready to handle another bad situation. (I'll grab the film as soon as someone uploads it on PB)

I can personally attest to thunder storms that can put 3~4ft of water in the streets in a matter of two hours, depending on where you are in the city. My friend ruined his ford truck driving in one such rain storm this summer...ok, he's an idiot, and wouldn't listen to me.

Gentilly is probably the lowest neighborhood, but even Uptown on St. Charles, houses can flood during just a rain storm.

NOLA needs a lot of work on their drainage system, and pumping stations.

Of course none of that matters if the levees fail again.

[ct] Many folks I have met here think the government "blew" the levees to flood the 9th ward, as they knew they couldn't handle the water, and it was better to wash away the poor folk. [/ct]

The French Quarter, Marigny, Treme, and the CBD never succumbed to the flood waters, as they are actually a bit above sea level.

In the end, NOLA is a city that is half empty to this day. You don't notice it if you are stayin' at the Marriot/Hilton/Roosevelt to go to a convention, and have a few Hurricanes on Bourbon st., but this city has really changed.

 

[Magyar]

NO.
When you build below sea level, you deserve the results of the stupid...

I think the above may apply to your statement as well.


Do you KNOW why NOLA is where it is?

Because JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER port city IN THE WORLD it's built where a port city is MOST effective and that usually is at or below sea level.

The Dutch have been doing it for centuries and the shame of what happened in NOLA is 100% fault of the Army corp of engineer who refused to do their job and take advice from people including 100s of top engineers from the Netherlands and as the whistle blowers stated were totally corrupt.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

When is the last time they had a hurricane in Holland ?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

NO.
When you build below sea level, you deserve the results of the stupid...

Chill dude. Where's your sense of humor today?

 

[rwguinn]

Chill dude. Where's your sense of humor today?

I left it in NOLA in 1996.
Filthy place, Cockroaches everywhere, a 1930's society, but with a lot of good food and good people, and a totally corrupt political system...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

NO.
When you build below sea level, you deserve the results of the stupid...

Who do you define as "you"?

And are you by chance a follower of John Hagee?

Lots of cities all over the world are protected from floods by levees. That's where ports and fertile land is. It's unrealistic to expect everyone just move out of flood risk areas.

And, the city of New Orleans actually was a lot safer when it was originally settled because there was a barrier marsh. Because the Corp dredged the Mississippi and built levees all along it, less silt has been pouring out into the delta ever since. That resulted in a loss of almost all the barrier marsh. So what you are saying is people should have been either clairvoyant and not settled there, or moved their entire city after the dredging destroyed the delta.


And by your reckoning we should abandon all areas with earthquake risk, tornado risk, other flood risk, fire risk and so on. Instead people try to mitigate these hazards. If the Corp wasn't corrupt and incompetent, the Katrina damage to New Orleans would not have occurred.

The problem here wasn't where the city was built. The problem wasn't the hurricane (aka God's wrath). The problem was human error within the Army Corp of Engineers.

 

[Beerina]

Actually my biggest gripe is the fact that the media cherry picks things to make it seem that only New Orleans was affected by Katrina.

The Mississippi coast was devastated by Katrina, with entire communities wiped off the face of the Earth, yet it's never more than a footnote whenever Katrina is mentioned.

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood.

We went down to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast in Mississippi a month before Katrina, and literally the week after the previous hurricane to hit.

The seaside hotel we stayed at was still removing the plywood from the windows. It doesn't exist anymore.

We spent several nights at the floating casinos and drove by the famous Hard Rock Cafe giant guitar that shortly got heavily damaged by Katrina. Drove over the long bridge that had collapsed segments Very sad indeed.

There was a little blue shack along there that served the best shrimp po' boys. Or softshell crab, if that was your fancy.

 

[Quinn]

I worked as an overnight volunteer coordinator for the Red Cross relief effort at the Dallas Convention Center when the Katrina evacuees came pouring in.

From someone who wasn't among the people you helped, but easily could have been with one different decision... thank you. With all the media coverage bringing back what it was like, this past week hasn't been the easiest for me (and lots of my friends). But stories like yours remind me that the voluntary efforts of ordinary people like you, kept it from being even worse than it was.

Okay, sentimental flashback over. Back to my cockroaches and 1930s society...

 

[bozothedeathmachine]

Actually my biggest gripe is the fact that the media cherry picks things to make it seem that only New Orleans was affected by Katrina.

The Mississippi coast was devastated by Katrina, with entire communities wiped off the face of the Earth, yet it's never more than a footnote whenever Katrina is mentioned.

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood.

I agree not enough attention was put on the MS Gulf Coast. I went to high school in Bay St. Louis and know a lot of people that were affected. I believe far more damage was done to the Coast than New Orleans (and my hometown, Slidell), but that's just from what I've seen myself, so it's anecdotal.

But I do have a couple of counter-points on your argument:
1. The damage to the Gulf Coast was done and gone; the tide came in, destroyed everything, and left. The flooding in NO lasted weeks. This is generally the root of the human interest stories; people stranded. And we are talking about the media here, nothing sells like human suffering.
2.

New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood

By your logic, so did the Gulf Coast. After Camille especially everyone should have taken note. In fact, if can be argued the Gulf Coast residents are more culpable as historically they have been far more affected by hurricanes than New Orleans.

3. The damage to NO was almost completely man-made due to the ineffective levees. As in #2, no one is surprised when the Coast gets whacked by a hurricane every few years; it's a risk of living there. That's why all the houses are on stilts. No one expects levees to break flooding an entire city.

I'm not trying to cast the Gulf Coast suffering in any lesser light, but I can understand why the media focuses on NO.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

Actually my biggest gripe is the fact that the media cherry picks things to make it seem that only New Orleans was affected by Katrina.

The Mississippi coast was devastated by Katrina, with entire communities wiped off the face of the Earth, yet it's never more than a footnote whenever Katrina is mentioned.

And it sounds callous and cruel, but New Orleans had it coming. I've lived on the Gulf Coast my entire life and understood that someday, New Orleans was going to flood.

I'm a culprit of this, although I believe that most people don't do it deliberately. Of course we knew that the devastation was not just in NO, it also encompassed many of the coastal communities along MO, AR and even TX. I think many people just say "New Orleans" as a shorthand for "New Orleans and the entire rest of the Gulf Coast that was affected by Katrina".

From someone who wasn't among the people you helped, but easily could have been with one different decision... thank you. With all the media coverage bringing back what it was like, this past week hasn't been the easiest for me (and lots of my friends). But stories like yours remind me that the voluntary efforts of ordinary people like you, kept it from being even worse than it was.

Okay, sentimental flashback over. Back to my cockroaches and 1930s society...

My house got hit by a tornado back in 2008, and it did a lot of devastation to the porch, carport and many large trees around the place (Amazingly, none of us were hurt). My neighbors all came by and had a 'chainsaw party' where everyone helped cut up and get us mobile and functional again. I never forget generosity like that. When you're beaten down, having someone roll up their sleeves and help you is perhaps the most wonderful endorsement of the goodness of mankind I can think of.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

I think the above may apply to your statement as well.


Do you KNOW why NOLA is where it is?

Because JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER port city IN THE WORLD it's built where a port city is MOST effective and that usually is at or below sea level.

The Dutch have been doing it for centuries and the shame of what happened in NOLA is 100% fault of the Army corp of engineer who refused to do their job and take advice from people including 100s of top engineers from the Netherlands and as the whistle blowers stated were totally corrupt.

Hm. Looking, not many cities are *under* sea level. (I also don't want to get into the incompetence of most bureaucracies because then we have to start going 'OK, what did all levels of government do?')

Who do you define as "you"?

And are you by chance a follower of John Hagee?

Probably America, and ad hominem (negative association in order to attack the person, not his argument)

Lots of cities all over the world are protected from floods by levees. That's where ports and fertile land is. It's unrealistic to expect everyone just move out of flood risk areas.

And, the city of New Orleans actually was a lot safer when it was originally settled because there was a barrier marsh. Because the Corp dredged the Mississippi and built levees all along it, less silt has been pouring out into the delta ever since. That resulted in a loss of almost all the barrier marsh. So what you are saying is people should have been either clairvoyant and not settled there, or moved their entire city after the dredging destroyed the delta.

Strawman; also, name the other cities besides Holland (There are also a few in the Phillipines, but I am under the impression they regularly flood)

And by your reckoning we should abandon all areas with earthquake risk, tornado risk, other flood risk, fire risk and so on. Instead people try to mitigate these hazards. If the Corp wasn't corrupt and incompetent, the Katrina damage to New Orleans would not have occurred.

Slippery slope; strawman.

The problem here wasn't where the city was built. The problem wasn't the hurricane (aka God's wrath). The problem was human error within the Army Corp of Engineers.

Simple Cause Fallacy.