The Big Bang, evolution, and God!

[diddidit]

How can we be certain we descended from apes. I was always told that some of the ape findings were planted and the others were skeletal remains of Orangutans or other apes.

I don't have time right now to see if someone else posted this specific link (I saw lots to talkorigins, not surprisingly), but it's fantastic at showing some of the relations shared by all life:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may03.html

did

 

[Ossai]

Ruby

There's some new theory from Creationists about the speed of light playing into it. Know anything about that?

On the speed of light.
From what I've read on some creationists sites (including Dr. Dino), they [creationists] claim that the speed of light is decreasing. They say that it traveled faster during the past and has now slowed to it's present, and conveniently stable, speed. The numbers they use to back their claim are half-truths at best. They take some of the original measurements for light speed and compare them to what is measured today without filling in the blanks. {I was going to show it directly but then I would have to go look up the old measurements and other variables - anyone that wants to do so is more than welcome , so I'll use an analogy instead.}

For example: a car speeds past on a long flat stretch of road every day at the same speed and you want to know how fast it's going. To start with you take a paint can and brush and place two markers 10 miles apart. When the car comes by you count. Plug in the figures and you calculate that the car was moving at 50 mph. Well since you couldn't directly see when one tire passed the mark and you can't be certain that your count was 100% accurate and some other uncontrollable variables so you naturally include a margin of error. You actually publish that the car was going at 50 mph plus or minus 15.
A few years later someone comes up with the bright idea of using a watch to gauge the speed of the car. This time you work out the equation and get that the car was going 48 mph plus or minus 10. A much closer reading but still not perfect.
Another couple of years go by and this time you use a stopwatch. Readings indicate 47 mph plus or minus 5.
The actual speed of the car is 46.879… mph. Which is within the original measurement's margin of error.


Now the creationists look {and only acknowledge} the main number published. They ignore the margin of error and how the numbers were arrived at as well as the technological advances that allow a more accurate measurement.

Ossai

 

[-=Vagrant=-]

The latest thing from the creationist front is the RATE-project. It "proves" that the Earth must be only 10'000 to 6'000 years old.
I think it took them five years to slap together, and one day for the experts to refute.

 

[Brian the Snail]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Big Bang, evolution, and God!

Far be it from me to add any legitimacy the rantings of crazy creationist wackos... but to play devils advocate here, perhaps this dr. dino, who ever he is, is distorting the research done by Dr. Lene Vestergaard Hau in which she was able to slow light down to not 34, but 38 mph.


link

link


Dr. Hau

Hahahaha, that's funny. If the creationists are using this as an argument, I think the word "desperation" comes to mind. These experiments use Bose-Einstein condensates of atomic gases cooled to billionths of a degree above absolute zero, using magnetic traps, lasers, big vacuum pumps, the whole shebang. These things can only be produced in the laboratory, and don't occur naturally. Also, this speed arises from huge refractive indices which corresponds to the special properties of the gas concerned. It doesn't correspond to the speed of light in the vacuum, which, alas, is always c.

I wonder if Lene Hau knows about this...

 

[Marvel Frozen]

There's some new theory from Creationists about the speed of light playing into it. Know anything about that?

Some creationist took a bunch of measurements of the speed of light, and from them concluded that the speed of light has been exponentially decreasing over time. Conveniently his calculations showed the beginning of the universe at 4004 B.C. Of course, the calculations relied heavily on two measurements taken in the 18th century (which remarkably were pretty accurate, though not as accurate as modern measurements). On top of that, he fudged around with the numbers until he got the results he wanted (a creation time of 4000 B.C.).

As for why the speed of light stopped decreasing around 1960, that's obviously a sign that the end times are near. Why else would the speed of light suddenly stop decreasing?

 

[Ruby]

Ruby

On the speed of light.
From what I've read on some creationists sites (including Dr. Dino), they [creationists] claim that the speed of light is decreasing. They say that it traveled faster during the past and has now slowed to it's present, and conveniently stable, speed. The numbers they use to back their claim are half-truths at best. They take some of the original measurements for light speed and compare them to what is measured today without filling in the blanks. {I was going to show it directly but then I would have to go look up the old measurements and other variables - anyone that wants to do so is more than welcome , so I'll use an analogy instead.}

For example: a car speeds past on a long flat stretch of road every day at the same speed and you want to know how fast it's going. To start with you take a paint can and brush and place two markers 10 miles apart. When the car comes by you count. Plug in the figures and you calculate that the car was moving at 50 mph. Well since you couldn't directly see when one tire passed the mark and you can't be certain that your count was 100% accurate and some other uncontrollable variables so you naturally include a margin of error. You actually publish that the car was going at 50 mph plus or minus 15.
A few years later someone comes up with the bright idea of using a watch to gauge the speed of the car. This time you work out the equation and get that the car was going 48 mph plus or minus 10. A much closer reading but still not perfect.
Another couple of years go by and this time you use a stopwatch. Readings indicate 47 mph plus or minus 5.
The actual speed of the car is 46.879… mph. Which is within the original measurement's margin of error.


Now the creationists look {and only acknowledge} the main number published. They ignore the margin of error and how the numbers were arrived at as well as the technological advances that allow a more accurate measurement.

Ossai

Oh thanks...that's good info.

 

[Ruby]

Thanks everyone. You are GREAT!!! I appreciate all the info, links and comments. I'm sorry I don't have time right now to respond to everyone!!

 

[LawnOven]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Big Bang, evolution, and God!

Hahahaha, that's funny. If the creationists are using this as an argument, I think the word "desperation" comes to mind.

quite right

 

[triadboy]

I know that other people have addressed the evolution concerns in other posts, However, I came across this piece which I wrote for alt.religion.mormon, a while back.


Very nice Peter.

 

[Yahweh]

Re: Re: Re: The Big Bang, evolution, and God!

That is brilliant in its simple eloquence! I am going to plagiarize the $h!+ out of that. I may even take credit for it (if pretty ladies ask if I thought of it myself).

I feel special .

You have my expressed written consent to plagiarize as much as you feel like until your hearts content.

(If I know women... and I should having been married for a few years... nothing impresses them more than Philosophy... except maybe Philosophy in French...)