The Biden Presidency

[Roger Ramjets]

I'm reminded of a discussion we had in a town political board not too long ago, in which the argument was whether or not the town should borrow money for equipment or save a surplus and buy later. Borrowing at current interest rates, taking into account maintenance of old equipment and inflation, was a good bit better deal than accruing cash at nearly zero interest and waiting. It goes against some people's sense of responsibility, but the financial world is upside down.

Nearly 0% interest is not 'upside down', and borrowing money for stuff you need now rather than 'accruing cash' is quite sensible. What is not sensible is expecting everybody to make money out of 'accruing cash'.

 

[Minoosh]

I think you're right, calls to bipartisanship are just a convenient excuse for the fact that conservative Democrats like Biden don't actually want to do these things.

Why look at rifts in the GOP when the Democratic Party itself starts to tear itself apart? I'm sure it has not been lost on Russia which is always looking for wedges to drive Americans apart. I think you're being terribly unfair to Biden and if this goes on for another 4 years I don't think it will help the Democrats at all.

You (I think it was you) earlier said a thing like, "Biden can spend some capital" to accomplish something. But in economic terms, the whole point is to not spend your capital. You use it to accumulate more wealth.

I think $50,000 is way too much to be reimbursing for student loans. On the other hand, Joe's figure sounds low. Maybe something can be worked out in the spirit of compromise and the art of the possible. It's not going to make everyone happy, but arguably it's a better way forward for the Dems than clinging to ideological purity.

If I'd just managed to pay back $50,000 in student loans, then someone just had that handed to them I'd be pretty pissed. Fairness matters. Biden is not going to please all the people all the time.

 

[SezMe]

.....

When people borrow big bucks to go to law school or get MBAs, they are buying tickets to prosperous, prestigious careers. ....

That's a gross generalization which fails to give credit to, for example, law school students motivated by a desire to seek justice for minorities.

 

[SezMe]

We are currently nowhere near that point on the line. As soon we start to get anywhere near it, then it will be time to start paying attention to this argument.

Look at Figure 1 on this page. Based on that history, I'd say 5% is the point on the line to start being concerned. How about you?

 

[SezMe]

<snip>

It's hard to evaluate your post since you don't specify your location.

 

[SezMe]

You (I think it was you) earlier said a thing like, "Biden can spend some capital" to accomplish something. But in economic terms, the whole point is to not spend your capital. You use it to accumulate more wealth.

Such references are to political capital, not financial capital.

 

[kookbreaker]

Having a lack of looming Communism to point out in the Biden admin, Newsmax let’s a guest attack Champ, the Presidential Dog.

https://www.businessinsider.com/newsmax-guest-bidens-dog-dirty-and-unlike-a-presidential-dog-2021-2

 

[Fast Eddie B]

If I'd just managed to pay back $50,000 in student loans, then someone just had that handed to them I'd be pretty pissed. Fairness matters. Biden is not going to please all the people all the time.

Not to say emotions are necessarily logical, but I sense some sort of fallacy that I can’t put my finger on.

Imagine someone had been a slave, and worked hard to buy their way out of servitude over decades. Would they be justified in feeling “pretty pissed” at Lincoln over the Emancipation Proclamation?

That said, it might make sense to phase in the forgiveness on the loans. Maybe start with $10,000 off the top now, and maybe an additional $10,000 every year or every other year until the debt is gone. It would soften the blow to the treasury or whoever is collecting the interest, and broaden the economic benefit of the borrowers having more to spend on goods and services.

Fairness does matter, and that seems fair to me.

 

[Bob001]

That's a gross generalization which fails to give credit to, for example, law school students motivated by a desire to seek justice for minorities.

Sure, and that's a good reason to forgive the debt over time in exchange for public service work, or tying repayment to income. I could certainly imagine wiping out a doctor's debt if he works in underserved communities. But that's not the same as saying everybody gets 50K just because they owe money. And a lawyer can still seek justice and make good money doing so.

 

[Bob001]

Not to say emotions are necessarily logical, but I sense some sort of fallacy that I can’t put my finger on.

Imagine someone had been a slave, and worked hard to buy their way out of servitude over decades. Would they be justified in feeling “pretty pissed” at Lincoln over the Emancipation Proclamation?
....

The fallacy there is that slavery was never a choice, unlike borrowing five or six figures to get an Ivy League degree.

 

[sackett]

Having a lack of looming Communism to point out in the Biden admin, Newsmax let’s a guest attack Champ, the Presidential Dog.

https://www.businessinsider.com/newsmax-guest-bidens-dog-dirty-and-unlike-a-presidential-dog-2021-2

How about we let Champ attack that guest? In the customary German shepherd way.

 

[Aridas]

Not to say emotions are necessarily logical, but I sense some sort of fallacy that I can’t put my finger on.

It's not actually a fallacy, in and of itself. It's a rather normal emotional reaction, honestly, and one that I seem to recall is more common than a more detached assessment of the effects for the country or the people affected. "I had to work so hard to accomplish this, and you just had it handed to you?!?" and "I had to work so hard to accomplish this, and I didn't actually need to?!?" are examples of reactions that tap into the more selfish side of human emotions. The reactions shouldn't be treated as "wrong," I think, even though I also think that public policy should be handled using more detached assessments of the expected effects. That's an ideal that's frequently not lived up to, though, in reality, by the look of it.

The fallacy there is that slavery was never a choice, unlike borrowing five or six figures to get an Ivy League degree.

To poke at the latter part of that sentiment - College in the US is expensive.

For the 2017–18 academic year, annual current dollar prices for undergraduate tuition, fees, room, and board were estimated to be $17,797 at public institutions, $46,014 at private nonprofit institutions, and $26,261 at private for-profit institutions. Between 2007–08 and 2017–18, prices for undergraduate tuition, fees, room, and board at public institutions rose 31 percent, and prices at private nonprofit institutions rose 23 percent, after adjustment for inflation. The price for undergraduate tuition, fees, room, and board at private for-profit institutions decreased 9 percent between 2007–08 and 2017–18, after adjustment for inflation.

It's continued to rather quickly rise since then, of course, but I just poked as that link for ease. 5 figure costs are average even for public institutions, which can translate into five figure debts for the already struggling, if they make it in.

 

[Hellbound]

I wonder if they could model something off the military’s student loan repayment?

IIRC, it will pay 15% or $1700 per year (whichever is higher). Loans must be in existence for one year prior to application.

Would probably end up costing more in admin, though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fast Eddie B]

The fallacy there is that slavery was never a choice, unlike borrowing five or six figures to get an Ivy League degree.

The point of my analogy was not to equate college debt with slavery. That would be ridiculous.

The point was to show that one should not begrudge others for getting a benefit “for free” that you had to work for. Maybe related somehow with “sunk costs”?

 

[Caroline13]

Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on.

Now I'm hearing Harris is doing more and more of the Presidential interactions....ummmm

 

[Andy_Ross]

Lauren Boebert tweets

@laurenboebert
The Constitution divides the different powers of the federal government among 3 separate branches.

Our founding fathers established a system of checks & balances to prevent tyranny & uphold the rule of law.

Someone needs to remind Biden he’s no longer in the Legislative Branch.

 

[Bob001]

The point of my analogy was not to equate college debt with slavery. That would be ridiculous.

The point was to show that one should not begrudge others for getting a benefit “for free” that you had to work for. Maybe related somehow with “sunk costs”?

The argument is that a benefit like that should be tied to individual circumstances, maybe based on income, employment, age of debt, field of study, something. What seems unfair is handing $50K each to tens of millions of people just because they borrowed money.

As think about it, one area of particular concern should be the borderline or often outright fraudulent "for profit" schools that are notorious for offering overpriced, shoddy programs to unsophisticated students, often veterans, who can get money from federal loan programs. Maybe those loans should just be dissolved, but the schools certainly shouldn't be getting any more money from taxpayers.
https://www.npr.org/2011/05/12/136238528/for-profit-colleges-targeting-people-who-cant-pay
https://billmoyers.com/story/the-for-profit-college-scam-that-these-students-are-still-paying-for/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/02/the-rise-and-fall-of-for-profit-schools
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-most-student-loan-fraud-claims-involve-for-profits/

"One size fits all" solutions rarely fit anybody very well.

 

[Pixel42]

Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on.

Restrictions was the "New Norm" long before Biden became President. If the vaccine rollout proceeds as planned and people are sensible enough to obey them it should be possible to start to ease them fairly soon.

 

[Minoosh]

Lauren Boebert tweets

@laurenboebert
The Constitution divides the different powers of the federal government among 3 separate branches.

Our founding fathers established a system of checks & balances to prevent tyranny & uphold the rule of law.

Someone needs to remind Biden he’s no longer in the Legislative Branch.

Typical passive-aggressive rightwing ****.

 

[Caroline13]

Restrictions was the "New Norm" long before Biden became President. If the vaccine rollout proceeds as planned and people are sensible enough to obey them it should be possible to start to ease them fairly soon.

Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed.

What happened to working on one's HEALTH??????