The Biden Presidency

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Fox seem outraged that the ankle injury wasn’t disclosed till he went to the doctor on Sunday. "Why the lack of transparency?"
 
Rahm Emmanuel likely getting a spot. Literally tried to cover up a police murder while mayor but I guess that's all water under the bridge now.

Progressives got hoodwinked by the "vote blue no matter who" line yet again. How long before we finally realize that the Democratic Party is not our ally?
 
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shemp said:
They may not be your ally, but they are what stands between you and a theocracy. In the US, politics has always been about the lesser of two evils.
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Tactical voting goes both ways. An organized, progressive block of voters could force the Democrats to stop being this way through threats of withholding votes. This, combined with aggressive primarying of corporate democrats in safe blue states, likely needs to happen.

The progressives need to become more than a squeaky wheel. They need to become an unmanageable section of the party that threatens to undermine the entire project unless they are taken seriously. "Do you want the Republicans to win?" could apply as much to the Democratic Party operatives as it does to the voters if a sufficiently large segment of progressive voters were willing to play hardball.

There are many issues where the current lesser of two evils is simply not adequate. Not hiring someone who used power to cover up an inconvenient police murder is not an unrealistic litmus test. If the corporate Dems don't understand why this is a problem, they have to go.
 
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shemp said:
They may not be your ally, but they are what stands between you and a theocracy. In the US, politics has always been about the lesser of two evils.
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Between the likes of Emmanuel and Tanden, that gap between the evils seems to be constantly shrinking.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Tactical voting goes both ways. An organized, progressive block of voters could force the Democrats to stop being this way through threats of withholding votes. This, combined with aggressive primarying of corporate democrats in safe blue states, likely needs to happen.

The progressives need to become more than a squeaky wheel. They need to become an unmanageable section of the party that threatens to undermine the entire project unless they are taken seriously. "Do you want the Republicans to win?" could apply as much to the Democratic Party operatives as it does to the voters if a sufficiently large segment of progressive voters were willing to play hardball.

There are many issues where the current lesser of two evils is simply not adequate. Not hiring someone who used power to cover up an inconvenient police murder is not an unrealistic litmus test. If the corporate Dems don't understand why this is a problem, they have to go.
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Keeping the center in sight as a tactic to prevent Republicans from winning is not the equivalent tactic as progressives holding the party hostage to their demands.
 
Paul2 said:
Keeping the center in sight as a tactic to prevent Republicans from winning is not the equivalent tactic as progressives holding the party hostage to their demands.
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I don't think these arguments by centrists are made in good faith. They don't do this to prevent Republicans from winning, they do it because they are ideologically opposed to progressive policies and don't want them enacted.

Many progressive policies that are explicitly opposed by the centrists of the party are overwhelmingly popular. It's making them less electable to oppose these policies, but they do it anyway because that's what their ideology demands.

It's time to wrest power away from the gerontocracy of corporate Democrats.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Rahm Emmanuel likely getting a spot. Literally tried to cover up a police murder while mayor but I guess that's all water under the bridge now.

Progressives got hoodwinked by the "vote blue no matter who" line yet again. How long before we finally realize that the Democratic Party is not our ally?
Click to expand...

shemp said:
They may not be your ally, but they are what stands between you and a theocracy. In the US, politics has always been about the lesser of two evils.
Click to expand...

Indeed, much as it's not just theocracy that should be concerned about. Personally, I'm not likely to regret my vote for Biden or the Democrats in general, given that he and they are very much the lesser of two evils. That doesn't mean that I was either hoodwinked or trust(ed) them blindly. Biden, after all, was probably my least favorite one of the major candidates for the Democratic nomination, in and of himself, for reasons like expecting things like this to happen. Even so, Biden's not even taken over yet, so it's a still a bit premature to hammer his Administration for the problems that they haven't caused yet, even if it's not too soon to be paying attention to what areas will likely be more problematic.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
I don't think these arguments by centrists are made in good faith. They don't do this to prevent Republicans from winning, they do it because they are ideologically opposed to progressive policies and don't want them enacted.

Many progressive policies that are explicitly opposed by the centrists of the party are overwhelmingly popular. It's making them less electable to oppose these policies, but they do it anyway because that's what their ideology demands.

It's time to wrest power away from the gerontocracy of corporate Democrats.
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shemp’s comment, which is where this started, works with liberalism, not centrism, as a tactic to prevent a right wing theocracy.

If you want to assign a motivation other than good faith liberalism, there’s nothing wrong with that, but I’m not qualified to engage that topic, I merely want to comment on the tactic of keeping the right and theocracy in check.
 
Aridas said:
Indeed, much as it's not just theocracy that should be concerned about. Personally, I'm not likely to regret my vote for Biden or the Democrats in general, given that he and they are very much the lesser of two evils. That doesn't mean that I was either hoodwinked or trust(ed) them blindly. Biden, after all, was probably my least favorite one of the major candidates for the Democratic nomination, in and of himself, for reasons like expecting things like this to happen. Even so, Biden's not even taken over yet, so it's a still a bit premature to hammer his Administration for the problems that they haven't caused yet, even if it's not too soon to be paying attention to what areas will likely be more problematic.
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Selecting his administrative staff is substantial action. We don't have to pretend to be ignorant about what selecting these ghouls to staff his administration means is coming down the pike. These are the people who will be wielding real power and impacting policy, it matters a lot who they are, what they've done, and what their ideological principals are regarding governance.

I'm not suggesting that supporting Biden in the past election was wrong. Getting Trump out remains a worthy motivation. The point is now is not the time to let our foot off the gas. Positive change means holding our own accountable and loudly resisting the corporate democrats who want to run things their own way without complaint.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Rahm Emmanuel likely getting a spot. Literally tried to cover up a police murder while mayor but I guess that's all water under the bridge now.

Progressives got hoodwinked by the "vote blue no matter who" line yet again. How long before we finally realize that the Democratic Party is not our ally?
Click to expand...

I guarantee the majority of progressives had no illusions about a Biden administration, but we were ready to get rid of Trump no matter what.
 
Venom said:
I guarantee the majority of progressives had no illusions about a Biden administration, but we were ready to get rid of Trump no matter what.
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I think there was plenty of chatter that progressives would have some influence, though admittedly a minor role, in the coming Biden administration. Announcements of placements within the Biden administration show that progressives are not only getting nothing, but that deeply reprehensible people will be allowed to wield power.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I think there was plenty of chatter that progressives would have some influence, though admittedly a minor role, in the coming Biden administration. Announcements of placements within the Biden administration show that progressives are not only getting nothing, but that deeply reprehensible people will be allowed to wield power.
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Not for nothing, but progressives have gotten far more than nothing. Instead it sounds as though the very vocal minority within the Democratic Party thinks they should have gotten everything rather than far more than they would have gotten had the Dems caved and run Sanders and been beaten again.
 
The loony minority in any party always thinks they should be calling all the shots.
Look what happened to UK Labour when some of them did get some influence.
 
Trump's biggest problem, despite what he may think, is that he couldn't make deals with opponents, and he had the full, unwavering support of his party. progressives are going to have to make concessions to get what they want
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The loony minority in any party always thinks they should be calling all the shots.
Look what happened to UK Labour when some of them did get some influence.
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I don't know about that. Trump and his supporters are loons. They took power and did some very looney things.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It's time to wrest power away from the gerontocracy of corporate Democrats.
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What offices have you run for? What position do you hold in the Democratic Party? What lobbying efforts have you organized and pursued? How many times have you visited you political representatives offices to present petitions with thousands upon thousands of signatures?
 
SezMe said:
What offices have you run for? What position do you hold in the Democratic Party? What lobbying efforts have you organized and pursued? How many times have you visited you political representatives offices to present petitions with thousands upon thousands of signatures?
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This has indeed been a big problem for progressives (or any group left of center in this country) for a long time. they didn't do the leg work. They showed up every 4 years and expected massive change. there are notable exceptions, but left-wing movements in the US tend to be more sizzle than steak.

However, that has changed. Progressives are making actual gains. Not just with candidates but with policy as well. Progressive ballot initiatives are winning in states like South Dakota, Missouri, and Florida. Progressive candidates like Katie Porter and Steve Levin flipping districts that had been red for decades. And instead of seeing a new energized voting bloc to engage, the establishment Dems attack them harder than they have ever attacked conservatives.

You have Democrats like Manchin, Donnely, Bredesen, and McCaskill openly attacking them in interviews. You have Democratic leadership changing the rules and consolidating power at the top. You have Congressional Democrats attacking Ilhan Omar for referencing a rap lyric to call out a lobbyist while not saying a goddamned thing about republicans practically quoting from the Protocols of Zion to scare their base. You have constant finger-wagging and lecturing from a bunch of professional second-place finishers who are still treating this like it's still the 80s.

So, yes, progressives were not great about organizing and engaging in the system. But now that they are, they are getting shut out by the people that are supposed to be on their team.
 
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