Cont: The Biden Presidency Part II

[Tero]

And there is no compromise on abortion or climate change either. "You can have half a climate change fix."

 

[Aridas]

And there is no compromise on abortion or climate change either. "You can have half a climate change fix."

Perhaps not the best of examples. Reasonable compromise on abortion that happens to end up in relative line with public's opinion involves legal abortion with some restrictions on third trimester abortions. That that's roughly where Democrats stand overall is no accident. There's room for compromise there in either direction, though. That too many Republicans push extremist anti-choice positions as a tactic and work to simply demonize Democrats is a bad faith Republican problem, not a problem with compromise itself.

Somewhat similarly, there are quite a lot of routes and methods to work with when it comes to mitigating the damage done by climate change and the simple truth that we can't reasonably just snap our fingers and change what we've already got, which means that there's quite a bit of room for compromise in a lot of ways... so long as all parties are willing to work together to better the future. We're where we are now, though, because not all parties are willing to work together to better the future, especially the Big Pollution companies and the myths that they've built. So long as corporate profit is the primary concern there and screwing the masses to increase profits is rewarded, problems will arise. Even then, though, compromise is reasonable, not least because those corporations are providing valuable services that they can reasonably leverage... it's just that they cannot be allowed to override the much greater public interest just for the sake of profit.

 

[Aridas]

To poke at another matter...

Artificial intelligence can now measure the negativity with precision. At my request, Forge.ai, a data analytics unit of the information company FiscalNote, combed through more than 200,000 articles — tens of millions of words — from 65 news websites (newspapers, network and cable news, political publications, news wires and more) to do a “sentiment analysis” of coverage. Using algorithms that give weight to certain adjectives based on their placement in the story, it rated the coverage Biden received in the first 11 months of 2021 and the coverage President Donald Trump got in the first 11 months of 2020.

…

After a honeymoon of slightly positive coverage in the first three months of the year, Biden’s press for the past four months has been as bad as — and for a time worse than — the coverage Trump received for the same four months of 2020.

Think about that. In 2020, Trump presided over a worst-in-world pandemic response that caused hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths; held a superspreader event at the White House and got covid-19 himself; praised QAnon adherents; embraced violent white supremacists; waged a racist campaign against Black Lives Matter demonstrators; attempted to discredit mail-in voting; and refused to accept his defeat in a free and fair election, leading eventually to the violence of Jan. 6 and causing tens of millions to accept the “big lie,” the worst of more than 30,000 he told in office.

And yet Trump got press coverage as favorable as, or better than, Biden is getting today. Sure, Biden has had his troubles, with the delta variant, Afghanistan and inflation. But the economy is rebounding impressively, he has signed major legislation, and he has restored some measure of decency, calm and respect for democratic institutions.

As usual, the claims of the media loving Democrats continues to be pretty much the inverse of the truth. It only seems that way at all sometimes because the other main point for comparison on the spectrum in the US is far right loud Democrat demonizing.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

By my calculations, the number is "only" 550,000 lives saved. This is based on how Canada dealt with COVID-19 vs the USA. Granted, Canada got off to a rather slow start, but once we got our act together we did pretty well. As of the start of December, Canada had a fatality rate of 778/million vs the US at 2,376/million. That difference translates to 550,000 lives saved over the course of the pandemic.

Two things:-

1. We should have been able to do better than Canada.

2. This Pandemic isn't over by a long shot. We are still losing ~1000 per day, and I fear Omicron will increase the death rate.

 

[Tero]

Perhaps not the best of examples. Reasonable compromise on abortion that happens to end up in relative line with public's opinion involves legal abortion with some restrictions on third trimester abortions. That that's roughly where Democrats stand overall is no accident. There's room for compromise there in either direction, though. That too many Republicans push extremist anti-choice positions as a tactic and work to simply demonize Democrats is a bad faith Republican problem, not a problem with compromise itself.

Somewhat similarly, there are quite a lot of routes and methods to work with when it comes to mitigating the damage done by climate change and the simple truth that we can't reasonably just snap our fingers and change what we've already got, which means that there's quite a bit of room for compromise in a lot of ways... so long as all parties are willing to work together to better the future. We're where we are now, though, because not all parties are willing to work together to better the future, especially the Big Pollution companies and the myths that they've built. So long as corporate profit is the primary concern there and screwing the masses to increase profits is rewarded, problems will arise. Even then, though, compromise is reasonable, not least because those corporations are providing valuable services that they can reasonably leverage... it's just that they cannot be allowed to override the much greater public interest just for the sake of profit.

The right wing will no longer compromise on abortion. They are determined on no abortion in many states.

 

[Aridas]

The right wing will no longer compromise on abortion. They are determined on no abortion in many states.

I wouldn't be quite so sure about that. What they say is frequently not what they actually do. The right-wing propaganda and refusal to compromise is frequently more about riling up and creating single issue voters, though, as well as fundraising. On a quick check, about 70% of Republicans think that abortion should be legal in some or all circumstances. That gives a fair bit of pressure, in and of itself, to not actually follow through on their claimed stance, for fear of backlash even among Republicans. That's all a bit beside the point I made, though. There is certainly room for compromise between rational positions and actors, even when it comes to abortion and climate change. It's just that compromise is not the same thing as and should not be confused with capitulation to bad actors who are pushing irrational positions for the gain of the few at great cost to the many.

 

[Delvo]

Remember when Biden ran on offering a public {health care} option during the campaign?

Has anyone in his admin even mentioned this idea since then?

Once it had served its purpose of duping the Biden dupes into touting that as just as good as MediCare For All during the primaries, the lie was not needed anymore.

Meanwhile, what he's actually been doing on health care is not merely nothing, but an active continuation of a Trump scheme to replace MediCare with a corporate program.

Elect a Republican/conservative President, get a Republican/conservative Presidency

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Once it had served its purpose of duping the Biden dupes into touting that as just as good as MediCare For All during the primaries, the lie was not needed anymore.

Meanwhile, what he's actually been doing on health care is not merely nothing, but an active continuation of a Trump scheme to replace MediCare with a corporate program.

The DC experiment was launched by the Trump administration but actually has its roots in the Affordable Care Act (ACA), which established CMMI with the stated goal of identifying "ways to improve healthcare quality and reduce costs in the Medicare, Medicaid, and Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) programs."

The ACA granted CMMI, also known as the Innovation Center, the authority to test alternative payment and service delivery models on a national scale without congressional approval...

The Biden administration paused the most extreme form of Direct Contracting—known as the Geographic (GEO) model—in March

You make it sound like Biden is slavishly continuing a Trump plan to privatize Medicare, when that is not the case. It's a pilot program to test alternative models, with no commitment to being adopted. But thanks to the Biden adminstration, the GEO model is not going ahead as planned. That's not nothing, and it's not a continuation either.

Elect a Republican/conservative President, get a Republican/conservative Presidency

Run a hard-left 'progressive' presidential candidate, get an actual Republican/conservative Presidency.

This is how Biden eked out his 2020 victory

Biden benefited more from partisan loyalty than Trump, won the independents, and captured a higher percentage of Republicans than Trump did Democrats.

Biden’s coalition in the battleground states also included significant numbers of 2016 nonvoters and Trump voters. In the five states he flipped, as well as Florida, Iowa, North Carolina and Ohio, Biden received about 20 percent of his votes from 2016 nonvoters and about 6 percent from 2016 Trump voters. By contrast, Trump received only 13 percent of his vote from the former group and about 3 percent from 2016 Clinton voters. Indeed, our analysis of the battleground state polls shows that Biden won vote-switchers by a decisive 2-to-1 margin.

Loyal democrats would rather have a moderate Democrat president than none at all. In fact some of us prefer it. Some of us are sick of the hyper-partisanship that is guaranteed to upset half the voters and make it almost impossible to get anything done. Some of us would rather everyone got half of what they wanted than try to take it all and get none.

But please keep telling us about 'duping the Biden dupes' until 'the lie is not needed anymore'. First he was senile, now he's an evil mastermind? There's a lie in there somewhere...

 

[Parsman]

Biden doesn't seem to be a man of many principles except "working across the aisle". To achieve that he seems to be able to bend and sway as much as a 20 year old yoga instructor. Perhaps that should come as no surprise after he has spent more than 50 years in the world of politics. To be honest I didn't expect much more of him other than he wasn't Trump or likely to be as bad as Trump and so far that is still true. If it wasn't for the fact that the USA doesn't seem to be emerging from the delirium of the Trump years into a more normal politics I would almost be happy to see Biden as a place holder president but now, I don't quite know what to make of where we all are in the world.

 

[Delvo]

It's a pilot program to test alternative models, with no commitment to being adopted.

A "test" is a step in the direction of the goal. Without the ultimate goal, there'd be no reason to "test" working toward it.

Run a hard-left 'progressive' presidential candidate, get an actual Republican/conservative Presidency.

That particular myth (which your link/quote does nothing at all to rescue anyway) was not the one I was referring to. I was referring to the one that Biden ever had any interest in or intention of improving health care. He did indeed say it, people did indeed support/defend him by pointing to him saying it, and he is indeed demonstrating that he didn't mean it.

First he was senile, now he's an evil mastermind?

Tricking non-conservative, non-Republican people into supporting conservative Republiclones does not take a mastermind. They do most of the work themselves.

 

[Tero]

Once it had served its purpose of duping the Biden dupes into touting that as just as good as MediCare For All during the primaries, the lie was not needed anymore.

Meanwhile, what he's actually been doing on health care is not merely nothing, but an active continuation of a Trump scheme to replace MediCare with a corporate program.

Elect a Republican/conservative President, get a Republican/conservative Presidency

The only fixes that will improve healthcare are already in the Build Back Better act. There are many holes in the insurance system and the feds also drop many seniors due to changes in life that occur during the year. It remains to be seen in 2022 to 2024 if the fixes are significant.

It's irrelevant what fixes there are if the GOP will just undo them in 2025. I would put all the money on election reform. Push that thru in the spring and dump filibuster. It is a gamble, but the dems will likely keep the presidency in 2024. This is because the GOP has no usable candidate. The tactics need to be Benghazi type to keep his awful deeds in the public for the next few years. "Trump is bad for Democracy." That will keep the independents in 2024.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

The tactics need to be Benghazi type to keep his awful deeds in the public for the next few years. "Trump is bad for Democracy." That will keep the independents in 2024.

Problem is 'Benghazi type' tactics don't work that way around. The Deplorables already know what they are and don't care. They vote for deplorable candidates because that's what they want.

In 2024 there will be no need to point out Trump's flaws because everyone knows them. Anyone who is still thinking of voting for him at that point is a lost cause.

It's the others that Democrats need to attract - not with 'Benghazi!' but positive messaging about what they are doing to make things better. Of course 'progressives' will always be complaining that it's not enough, so they need to get on top of it by producing measurable results. But the time to do that is not now. Biden's ratings can go lower without concern, just like others did. The time to act is closer to the election when people will remember who was good to them, with a promise of more good to come - but only if they vote Democrat!

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Tricking non-conservative, non-Republican people into supporting conservative Republiclones does not take a mastermind. They do most of the work themselves.

'Non-conservatives' are credulous dupes. Got it.

 

[Delvo]

'Non-conservatives' are credulous dupes. Got it.

The ones who support & defend Republiclones, yes.

I would put all the money on election reform.

And not just Federally, which is the level at which we've already had the SC just not take one case saying it's not Federal business. There need to be countless state & local efforts, including not just laws but also lawsuits.

It's the others that Democrats need to attract - not with 'Benghazi!' but positive messaging about what they are doing to make things better... they need to get on top of it by producing measurable results. But the time to do that is not now... Biden's ratings can go lower without concern, just like others did. The time to act is closer to the election when people will remember who was good to them

Agreed on the "should" angle, but, from the "will" angle... Do you foresee either bills that would get past not only Biden but also the Manchin-Sinematic universe, or executive orders getting signed by Biden, which will be adequate to make a difference?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

It's the others that Democrats need to attract - not with 'Benghazi!' but positive messaging about what they are doing to make things better. Of course 'progressives' will always be complaining that it's not enough, so they need to get on top of it by producing measurable results. But the time to do that is not now. Biden's ratings can go lower without concern, just like others did. The time to act is closer to the election when people will remember who was good to them, with a promise of more good to come - but only if they vote Democrat!

"Let's be sure not to do any good unless it helps us win an election" is a great slogan.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It's the others that Democrats need to attract - not with 'Benghazi!' but positive messaging about what they are doing to make things better. Of course 'progressives' will always be complaining that it's not enough, so they need to get on top of it by producing measurable results. But the time to do that is not now. Biden's ratings can go lower without concern, just like others did. The time to act is closer to the election when people will remember who was good to them, with a promise of more good to come - but only if they vote Democrat!

Almost certainly that Democrats will take the opposite tack in response to growing dissatisfaction with the Biden admin, instead convincing that Biden's tepid programs were simply too close to full blown luxury communism for the public to bear. The kneejerk response of the party is triangulate further to the center-right and appeal to some mythical "middle voter" through an incoherent array of fence-sitting positions.

The problem remains ever the same. Positions that are broadly popular in this country (not just Democrats, but generally) are those that are in direct opposition to their neoliberal principles and, more importantly, the interests of their biggest donors. Curtailing the most vicious excesses of our capitalist hellscape through well executed, robust government programs could be a winning message to counter an increasingly fascist right wing promising to tear down the system and build it anew, but the liberal establishment hates even mild socialism so much they're willing to roll the dice.

 

[Lithrael]

Yeah, I don’t know why the democrats think they’re going to get anywhere with, for example, people who are already bone-sure that one of the big problems in this country is all the women out there farming babies for the sweet sweet SNAP money and assorted child benefits, and are either sure there’s no way the good that such programs do might outweigh the problems of their abuses, or aren’t interested in such metrics (better 10 kids go hungry than 1 slacker’s baby get fed, and anyway why don’t we just take the kids away if the family can’t provide).

People that feel like a robust social safety net is half a step away from planned economy facist communism (or at least will destroy the country generally) aren’t gonna meet you halfway.

 

[Tero]

Almost certainly that Democrats will take the opposite tack in response to growing dissatisfaction with the Biden admin, instead convincing that Biden's tepid programs were simply too close to full blown luxury communism for the public to bear. The kneejerk response of the party is triangulate further to the center-right and appeal to some mythical "middle voter" through an incoherent array of fence-sitting positions.

The problem remains ever the same. Positions that are broadly popular in this country (not just Democrats, but generally) are those that are in direct opposition to their neoliberal principles and, more importantly, the interests of their biggest donors. Curtailing the most vicious excesses of our capitalist hellscape through well executed, robust government programs could be a winning message to counter an increasingly fascist right wing promising to tear down the system and build it anew, but the liberal establishment hates even mild socialism so much they're willing to roll the dice.

Well the programs are not tepid programs. The problems are real (not to many voters, but they are) as are the jobs they create. The workforce that will be available (due to preschool etc) is not going to appear in time for the 2022 election. The GOP will have great success in claiming Biden wasted money.

By 2024 there will be a measurable effect, and if the inflation is under control, normal people of the two parties will decide, not the populist Trump supporters that almost never vote.

Independents are weird, some vote all the time but are more interested in local politics than big things and presidents.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Well the programs are not tepid programs. The problems are real (not to many voters, but they are) as are the jobs they create. The workforce that will be available (due to preschool etc) is not going to appear in time for the 2022 election. The GOP will have great success in claiming Biden wasted money.

By 2024 there will be a measurable effect, and if the inflation is under control, normal people of the two parties will decide, not the populist Trump supporters that almost never vote.

Independents are weird, some vote all the time but are more interested in local politics than big things and presidents.

The child care subsidy sucks, it's chock full of all the stupid crap that centrist dems love:

How the Democratic Child-Care Proposal Hurts Families
Despite worthy intentions, it will drive up costs for some families while providing no benefits to the poorest and most vulnerable children.

By Matt Bruenig

Means testing that will exclude the poorest parents, dramatic cut-off cliffs that will punish working class people, and best of all, relying on state governments to participate.

Why the dems would rely on red states to administer this welfare program after so many intentionally sabotaged Obamacare is a mystery.

When confronted with these design problems, many political observers will no doubt respond that, although the program is not perfect, something is better than nothing. But in many places, the result of this legislation actually will be nothing, because it allows state governments to choose whether or not to participate.

When the Obama administration expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act in 2010, 24 states chose not to participate, and even today, 12 states continue as holdouts. More recently, when pandemic unemployment benefits were extended this year, 26 states chose not to participate.

The poorest people living in right wing hell states won't benefit because local government will intentionally torpedo the program.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/democratic-childcare-proposal-hurts-families/620749/

 

[Delvo]

And that's all if it even passes, with nobody playing hardball with the holdouts to get it passed.