Cont: The Biden Presidency (3)

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You've been pretty good at finding reasons historically speaking, why don't you tell us?

I think his policies aren't that good, but that's hardly the thing to prompt burning effigies the way HRC's grating personality did.

He notably has better instincts than some of the neolib center, at least willing to court the progressive wing of the party from time to time when it makes sense politically. He isn't so dead set on being anti-progressive as some other notable Dems are.
 
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I've said for the longest time if there is a Rosetta Stone for the 2020 election, the one symbolic thing that you have to "get" to make it all make sense it's Hillary Clinton telling people who were dying and killing the planet while doing it that they needed to find jobs that weren't digging up pieces of rock to burn and meaning it and having a plan for and not 48 hour later having to panic backpeddle out of it in one of if not the biggest PR crises of her campaign compared and contrasted with Donald Trump standing in front of a massive crowd in Iowa on national TV and going "How stupid are the people of Iowa" and then going on to win Iowa by the biggest margin of any Republican President in decades.
 
I've said for the longest time if there is a Rosetta Stone for the 2020 election, the one symbolic thing that you have to "get" to make it all make sense it's Hillary Clinton telling people who were dying and killing the planet while doing it that they needed to find jobs that weren't digging up pieces of rock to burn and meaning it and having a plan for and not 48 hour later having to panic backpeddle out of it in one of if not the biggest PR crises of her campaign compared and contrasted with Donald Trump standing in front of a massive crowd in Iowa on national TV and going "How stupid are the people of Iowa" and then going on to win Iowa by the biggest margin of any Republican President in decades.

I'd humbly suggest that the overt triangulation that is common among centrist dems and was previously common among pre-Trump republicans is easily clocked by even the most unsophisticated political audiences and universally received in disgust. Better to fault in earnest than to be seen whipsawing around in a way that screams insincerity and untrustworthiness.

That said, treating the surplus workforce of a region of the US known for an obsolete, extractive industry as heels rather than sympathetic victims of our economic system seems an especially tone-deaf approach likely only to appeal to a narrow set of soft-handed elites. The "learn to code" solution to the collapsing of the American middle class is rightly treated with contempt, though I'm not sure what else the neoliberals have to offer that doesn't run contrary to their ideological priors.
 
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Well without starting the whole discussion over from first principles I've never gotten a full grip on what anyone anywhere on the Left, from barely on the Left Centrists to Deep Dug Fully Buried the Needles Super Lefties and anyone in between expect the rural areas of America to actually DO outside of die off quicker and try to be quiet about it.
 
Well without starting the whole discussion over from first principles I've never gotten a full grip on what anyone anywhere on the Left, from barely on the Left Centrists to Deep Dug Fully Buried the Needles Super Lefties and anyone in between expect the rural areas of America to actually DO outside of die off quicker and try to be quiet about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_transition

But it's a tough problem for sure. When it comes to extractive regions like Appalachia, it's closing the barn door after the horses already escaped. The value of resources in these areas have long since already been privatized and largely taken away from the local communities responsible for generating immense wealth. Even in the good days these communities were lucky to get the scraps.

Then there's the obvious racial component of this, where white coal miners in Appalachia get constant concern and consideration (at least during election time when everyone pretends to care about the plight of the white working class), but their black counterparts in urban heavy industry that were similarly shocked by changes in our economic system are treated as the rightful recipients of misery, draconian policing, and scorn.
 
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But it's a tough problem for sure. When it comes to extractive regions like Appalachia, it's closing the barn door after the horses already escaped. The value of resources in these areas have long since already been privatized and largely taken away from the local communities responsible for generating immense wealth. Even in the good days these communities were lucky to get the scraps.

"If you live somewhere where all you have to offer the rest of the world is something of value that is dug out of the ground, chances are you are going to get very miserable very fast because people from other places can put themselves in charge and a diamond mind or an oil rig can be run with uneducated dying slaves and still turn an immense profit." - CGP Grey

Then there's the obvious racial component of this, where white coal miners in Appalachia get constant concern and consideration (at least during election time when everyone pretends to care about the plight of the white working class), but their black counterparts in urban heavy industry that were similarly shocked by changes in our economic system are treated as the rightful recipients of misery, draconian policing, and scorn.

Yes but at the end of the day all economic recovery money IS going to the cities. Maybe the black people aren't getting it, but at least their general area is. Your life can be going to **** but you still in a place that feels alive.

Again I'm from the South and I have family in the deep backwoods rural South and honestly and truly don't think a lot of people get what that level of despair does to you. It eats you alive from the inside out.
 
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"If you live somewhere where all you have to offer the rest of the world is something of value that is dug out of the ground, chances are you are going to get very miserable very fast because people from other places can put themselves in charge and a diamond mind or an oil rig can be run with uneducated dying slaves and still turn an immense profit." - CGP Grey

It's often true that these parts of the country are often de-facto banana republics, it's worth pointing out that this need not necessarily be the case.

Norway famously nationalized their oil industry, and has some capacity to direct that wealth from this extractive industry can be directed towards some good beyond buying an oil baron a bigger mega yacht. Even Saudi Arabia, as backwards as it is, has a form of de-facto social welfare funded by nationalized oil wealth for the small minority of residents they consider first class citizens. This gives them at least the opportunity to consider factors beyond maximizing profit for whichever petro-baron ends up on top, which may include planning for the eventual end of the petro economy.


Yes but at the end of the day all economic recovery money IS going to the cities. Maybe the black people aren't getting it, but at least their general area is. Your life can be going to **** but you still in a place that feels alive.

To some cities.

The doubt the hollowed out husks of Detroit, Youngstown, or other big formerly productive hubs in the Rust Belt feel very "alive" at the moment.
 
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that would be a real cool statistic if popular vote decided anything in this country, but it doesnt.

Joe already said it well. All the left-hate in the world doesn't really matter, nobody but Hillary is responsible for her disastrous performance or her baffling decision to ignore certain midwest swing states.

True, she made mistakes in her campaign, including not focusing on swing states, but that has nothing to do with the subject of why progressives dislike her. They hated her before 2016 and they still do as you've demonstrated.

Then again, her so-called "disastrous performance" was very much impacted by voter complacency because the polls showed her thrashing Trump. Then many progressives refused to vote for her, too, out of spite over Bernie or whatever reasons they came up with.

But this is off-topic so I won't be responding to your rebuttal.
 
"If you live somewhere where all you have to offer the rest of the world is something of value that is dug out of the ground, chances are you are going to get very miserable very fast because people from other places can put themselves in charge and a diamond mind or an oil rig can be run with uneducated dying slaves and still turn an immense profit." - CGP Grey



Yes but at the end of the day all economic recovery money IS going to the cities. Maybe the black people aren't getting it, but at least their general area is. Your life can be going to **** but you still in a place that feels alive.

Again I'm from the South and I have family in the deep backwoods rural South and honestly and truly don't think a lot of people get what that level of despair does to you. It eats you alive from the inside out.

It's the inevitable result of the manufacturing chain in a capitalist society. The areas that manufacture finished products always have more cash on hand than areas that rely on resource extraction. A toaster will always cost more money than the materials that go into the toaster.

The solution to the inevitable inequality this generates is to redistribute cash from wealthy areas to poorer areas, which we do a lot of. Not that you would know it from the right-wing bellyaching over the parasitic moochers who live in cities...
 
One more comment on the 46% Trump 46% Biden polls: is it somehow a message from some voters, wanting a different Democrat? Is there some significant part of the 8% that is really committed to voting for democrats but somehow Biden can be switched for a younger guy?
 
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Is there some significant part of the 8% that is really committed to voting for democrats but somehow Biden can be switched for a younger guy?
Before Roe/Wade got sunk, it tended to be the opposite: Republicans got slightly more votes than expected. Since the sinking of Roe/Wade, that trend has reversed. But it should not be relied on. Such things can reverse, and Presidential elections can easily go differently from the elections involving less-well-known names. (For example, the year Trump lost was actually a pretty good one for the rest of his party in general. The same separateness this time could give us a good year for most Democrats and a Biden loss.)
 
One more comment on the 46% Trump 46% Biden polls: is it somehow a message from some voters, wanting a different Democrat? Is there some significant part of the 8% that is really committed to voting for democrats but somehow Biden can be switched for a younger guy?

The message I take away is the polls reflect the news media making up news like how unfit Biden is when the facts say otherwise.

It's too soon.

There is no other candidate moving up in the Democratic race.

Who knows how the GOP Primary is going to sort itself out.

And haven't you* brought this **** up more than once before? :rolleyes:


* I know you are not the only one.
 
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To some cities.

The doubt the hollowed out husks of Detroit, Youngstown, or other big formerly productive hubs in the Rust Belt feel very "alive" at the moment.

At last check, nationally, Democrats truly are trying to direct rather notable amounts of resources towards actually benefiting the people in rural areas and make the playing field both fairer and more hopeful. It may well not feel like that in much of rural America, of course, as the Republicans who dominate rural America actively work to sabotage America as a whole, including the rural areas. Well, except for the big businesses/owners who buy them in rural America.
 
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Well without starting the whole discussion over from first principles I've never gotten a full grip on what anyone anywhere on the Left, from barely on the Left Centrists to Deep Dug Fully Buried the Needles Super Lefties and anyone in between expect the rural areas of America to actually DO outside of die off quicker and try to be quiet about it.
Because there is no clear answer.

What they SHOULD do is clear: more than anywhere else in the country they ought to embrace the most pinko godless commie socialism you can imagine. Leave the smug neoliberalism to urban hipsters; they should be the ones demanding nationalization of privatized resource extraction, or at least heavy taxation going straight into local community development. They're being sucked dry and exploited by business interests and the fastest way out of that hole is to fight back Woody Guthrie style. They should be arguing for things like minimum wage laws and state support and universal health care. Safety nets so they won't have their lives ruined in a single turn of fortune. They're the ones who need that most. But I'm sure you can imagine how well it goes over.

So what should they be EXPECTED to do? Damned if I know. In 2016 Clinton for all her other faults had a detailed and workable plan for revitalizing rural areas. Trump promised to wave his dick around and bring back coal mining and put black lungs in every crib. They voted for him overwhelmingly. I'm sure they wouldn't actively prefer to sit in misery while politicians who don't give a **** about them blow sunshine up their ass every four years, but they vote for exactly that every time. There's some historical justification there, it's not just self-defeatism, but that's still a big part of it. What they need is a change, and it's not going to come from them and it's not going to come from the Republicans they vote in to perpetuate their despair, leaving "wait for them to die off" or, what, exactly?

Yes but at the end of the day all economic recovery money IS going to the cities. Maybe the black people aren't getting it, but at least their general area is. Your life can be going to **** but you still in a place that feels alive.
I'm pretty sure if you looked per capita you'd find that rural areas received a greatly outsized portion. It's just spread too thin to have the desired impact, partly because of the population imbalance inherent in the urban/rural divide, but mostly because all of our programs in that vein are a drop in the damn bucket, and because rural backwoods areas are pretty often corrupt as all hell and the money disappears into the mayor's brother-in-law's pocket as soon as it leaves federal hands. Two of those reasons can be directly affected by voters in rural areas, but which way do you think they come down at the ballot box? The other, yes, boils down to "then move into the damn city where it feels alive, jeez, what do you expect us to do about it?"
 
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I find it ironic that Republicans are concerned with Biden's age and competency while supporting Trump who is only 4 years younger and whose competency is reflected in his vitriolic and paranoid rants and rages he spews daily.
 
CNN article points out Biden faults and all the conspiracy/Fox produced doubts.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/opinions/joe-biden-poll-2024-election-zelizer/index.html
However, one thing is clear, Biden will be a weak candidate for a campaign tour making speeches etc. In fact he was never the speechmaker that a president should be. Even senile Reagan could read a speech well. An actor.

It's not lost yet, though, the speechmaking and tours. Biden should take this from a more humorous angle and ridicule Trump day after day. That is what Trump would do if he were Biden.
 
CNN article points out Biden faults and all the conspiracy/Fox produced doubts.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/opinions/joe-biden-poll-2024-election-zelizer/index.html
However, one thing is clear, Biden will be a weak candidate for a campaign tour making speeches etc. In fact he was never the speechmaker that a president should be. Even senile Reagan could read a speech well. An actor.

It's not lost yet, though, the speechmaking and tours. Biden should take this from a more humorous angle and ridicule Trump day after day. That is what Trump would do if he were Biden.

As much as I dislike Biden as a politician, I find him personally quite affable. Even his old-man tangents are a bit charming.

Compared to Trump, Biden's general amiability is in stark contrast. He seems like a decent person, even if you think he's too over the hill to be in such a demanding job. Biden's faults hint at a real personality and charisma compared to the ultra polished, focus-group tested to death approach that is common for hack politicians and is grating to the ear.

Right wing attempts to demonize Biden have largely fallen flat to my eye. The best jab they have is "sleepy Joe", which is pretty thin gravy, especially considering their candidate is not the picture of mental nor physical health either. Biden isn't running as a "shake things up candidate", his whole appeal is as a foil to Trump's chaotic and contentious years as president, so being a bit boring plays well to his "return to the normalcy of the recent past" message.

I have my reservations about such a message in the current political climate, but if that's the approach Dems are going to go with, Biden isn't a terrible choice.
 
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I actually think impeachment hearings against Biden could be good for him, as they will make the Republicans look stupid and Petty.
 
biden is the incumbent and when people are asked to name who would be a better choice it's always silence.

anyway, the age thing is a bit silly when the opponent is a 2 years younger fatso that lives off mcdonalds and thinks the human body is a battery and exercising drains it. and that's not even the weird **** he believes.
 
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