Cont: The Biden Presidency (3)

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Biden is awarding the Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor awarded by the US Government, to 17 people all of which right wing trolls will have a problem with for reasons.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Biden is awarding the Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor awarded by the US Government, to 17 people all of which right wing trolls will have a problem with for reasons.
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You know, if I were president, I would stop awarding the Medal of Freedom and come up with some other award to be the country's "highest civilian honor". (Medal of Integrity? Medal of Citizenship?)

After Stubby McBonespurs gave the award to Rush Lymphnode (a drug addict that politfact pointed out was > 80% wrong) during a state-of-the-union address as a publicity stunt, it seems like award is now tainted.
 
Segnosaur said:
You know, if I were president, I would stop awarding the Medal of Freedom and come up with some other award to be the country's "highest civilian honor". (Medal of Integrity? Medal of Citizenship?)

After Stubby McBonespurs gave the award to Rush Lymphnode (a drug addict that politfact pointed out was > 80% wrong) during a state-of-the-union address as a publicity stunt, it seems like award is now tainted.
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I was thinking the same thing.
 
Segnosaur said:
You know, if I were president, I would stop awarding the Medal of Freedom and come up with some other award to be the country's "highest civilian honor". (Medal of Integrity? Medal of Citizenship?)

After Stubby McBonespurs gave the award to Rush Lymphnode (a drug addict that politfact pointed out was > 80% wrong) during a state-of-the-union address as a publicity stunt, it seems like award is now tainted.
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GW had already dishonored the medal. He gave one to 'Heck of a Job Brownie' who totally mucked up New Orleans during/after Katrina. But definitely Drumpf topped that. I'm glad to see Biden giving them to people that were at least honorable and not cringeworthy.
 
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acbytesla said:
Yes, you are. Your logic is impaired. I do think POTUS''s policies can affect energy prices. But it takes years between the time leases are granted, drilling rigs to be built, wells to be dug, pipelines to be constructed and the oil to be delivered to refineries.

We are far more likely facing the problems left by the previous administration than anything Biden has created.
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You've obviously never owned or operated a drilling rig. I have. My logic is completely sound and undeniable, it is likely your understanding that is lacking.

Drilling permits for a lease are only a small part of completing a new well. The EPA has much to do with allowing or denying the ability to drill a well. They can delay you indefinitely with things like Environmental studies, wildlife studies, and a whole list of other permits required before you can drill such as: holding pool permits, and waste water disposal permits to name a couple. The waste water disposal can be an issue on its own requiring a separate disposal well to be permitted and drilled before you can ever produce the original well drilled. (That is if you were lucky enough and jumped thru enough red tape to get to drill it in the first place.)

A President's policies regarding the EPA have VERY MUCH to do with new oil and or gas wells and hence the excess or limits in supply of oil and or gas. Policies that empower and create a stronger EPA with more ability to impede production have a direct impact on the amount of oil and gas produced in the US.

If anything, Trump's policies on the EPA were designed to create a more production friendly atmosphere for fossil fuels. Can you say the same of Biden's? I bet you can't.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
You've obviously never owned or operated a drilling rig. I have. My logic is completely sound and undeniable, it is likely your understanding that is lacking.

Drilling permits for a lease are only a small part of completing a new well. The EPA has much to do with allowing or denying the ability to drill a well. They can delay you indefinitely with things like Environmental studies, wildlife studies, and a whole list of other permits required before you can drill such as: holding pool permits, and waste water disposal permits to name a couple. The waste water disposal can be an issue on its own requiring a separate disposal well to be permitted and drilled before you can ever produce the original well drilled. (That is if you were lucky enough and jumped thru enough red tape to get to drill it in the first place.)
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Okay, what specific policy changes did the Biden EPA make, and did they in fact discourage U.S. production?

And do you think protecting wildlife and clean water are unreasonable goals?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
You've obviously never owned or operated a drilling rig. I have. My logic is completely sound and undeniable, it is likely your understanding that is lacking.

Drilling permits for a lease are only a small part of completing a new well. The EPA has much to do with allowing or denying the ability to drill a well. They can delay you indefinitely with things like Environmental studies, wildlife studies, and a whole list of other permits required before you can drill such as: holding pool permits, and waste water disposal permits to name a couple. The waste water disposal can be an issue on its own requiring a separate disposal well to be permitted and drilled before you can ever produce the original well drilled. (That is if you were lucky enough and jumped thru enough red tape to get to drill it in the first place.)

A President's policies regarding the EPA have VERY MUCH to do with new oil and or gas wells and hence the excess or limits in supply of oil and or gas. Policies that empower and create a stronger EPA with more ability to impede production have a direct impact on the amount of oil and gas produced in the US.

If anything, Trump's policies on the EPA were designed to create a more production friendly atmosphere for fossil fuels. Can you say the same of Biden's? I bet you can't.
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so having been part of one tiny fraction of the industry makes you an expert?

The problem is not with the EPA, but with big money firms that own shares in all oil and oil related companies and want all of them to keep prices high to maximize return on their investment.
 
Bob001 said:
Okay, what specific policy changes did the Biden EPA make, and did they in fact discourage U.S. production?

And do you think protecting wildlife and clean water are unreasonable goals?
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Thanks Bob! I was hoping someone would ask that exact question.

Beginning Jan 20, 2021 President Biden enacted a series of Executive Orders. One of those orders is EO 13990 "Protecting Public Health and the Environment and Restoring Science To Tackle the Climate Crisis"

Within that order he revoked several of Trump's Executive Orders. The easiest one that explains why production of US oil and gas has dropped off since then was the revocation of Executive Order 13771 signed Jan 30, 2017 Titled : "Reducing Regulation and Controlling Regulatory Costs" The most important detail within that order was that it required the EPA (and other Government agencies too but the target was the EPA) anyway, they were required to eliminate 2 existing regulations for each new regulation proposed. No new regulations without lifting some old regulations. This made it much more difficult for the EPA to take oil producers to task on well drilling and production. They were no longer able to simply add a new regulation to stop the process anytime they saw fit to do so.

The elimination of that one Executive Order let the EPA off their leash and Biden added a new weapon to use in his war on oil.

Thanks again!
 
The Great Zaganza said:
so having been part of one tiny fraction of the industry makes you an expert?

The problem is not with the EPA, but with big money firms that own shares in all oil and oil related companies and want all of them to keep prices high to maximize return on their investment.
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I didn't claim to be an expert but I have found new oil fields and drilled those for production as well as reopen, service and produce wells on the old LeGrande Oil Pool in Kentucky. I do have a background of working with the EPA to achieve permits for new wells, opening old wells and permitting and bonding deep injection wells. I am well versed in fulfilling requirements for production of oil in several areas of Kentucky. I don't know if that makes me an expert and I don't consider myself one when among peers in the drilling community but I certainly know a thing or two about the EPA and oil wells.

President Biden's policies and Executive Orders, some as outlined above are directly responsible for the current lack of US production and new exploration of oil and gas. Since the EPA is no longer required to eliminate 2 old regulations for every new regulation proposed, they can and have simply regulated the oil drillers out of a job, as intended. This shouldn't come as a surprise, Biden promised to transition from fossil fuels and he's making good on those promises. Though with his popularity declining has been releasing a million barrels per day from the strategic oil reserves to try and reduce the pump price a few cents. It won't work, he'd have to release at least 2 million barrels a day for about a year just to get near the price we were before.

In case you're wondering what the EPA is doing in 2022 or you were about to ask, have a look here:

https://www.epa.gov/system/files/do...oil-and-gas-proposal.-overview-fact-sheet.pdf

Just a few little things like monitoring 300,000 well sites across the US to make sure they're not out of compliance with the new methane gas requirements to reduce green house gasses. Shutting down any wells not in compliance and requiring surveys of wells for leaks etc. Typical EPA stuff, shutting down production wells to make sure there aren't any methane leaks. Next they'll be bottling cow farts or regulating them. Perhaps cattle farmers will have to pay a greenhouse gas fine or tax per cow.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Thanks Bob! I was hoping someone would ask that exact question.

Beginning Jan 20, 2021 President Biden enacted a series of Executive Orders. One of those orders is EO 13990 "Protecting Public Health and the Environment and Restoring Science To Tackle the Climate Crisis"

Within that order he revoked several of Trump's Executive Orders. The easiest one that explains why production of US oil and gas has dropped off since then was the revocation of Executive Order 13771 signed Jan 30, 2017 Titled : "Reducing Regulation and Controlling Regulatory Costs" The most important detail within that order was that it required the EPA (and other Government agencies too but the target was the EPA) anyway, they were required to eliminate 2 existing regulations for each new regulation proposed. No new regulations without lifting some old regulations. This made it much more difficult for the EPA to take oil producers to task on well drilling and production. They were no longer able to simply add a new regulation to stop the process anytime they saw fit to do so.

The elimination of that one Executive Order let the EPA off their leash and Biden added a new weapon to use in his war on oil.

Thanks again!
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Glad to help. But hat doesn't quite answer the question. You say in effect the EPA restored previous regulations (not the same as creating new ones). What were those regulations, and how did they actually affect oil producers? I don't think it's wildly unreasonable to say you can't poison the air and water while you're drilling for oil. And saying two rules must be dropped to impose a new one doesn't make much sense if it doesn't require assessing what's actually being regulated.

Let's look further. What was the total U.S. oil production in 2020, Trump's last year, and 2021, Biden's first full year, and -- to assess the pandemic's effects -- how do those numbers compare to world oil production in the same periods, and to U.S. imports of foreign oil in the same periods?

Oil is a global market. I think there's a limit to how much Biden can be blamed for gas prices.
 
Bob001 said:
Glad to help. But hat doesn't quite answer the question. You say in effect the EPA restored previous regulations (not the same as creating new ones). What were those regulations, and how did they actually affect oil producers? I don't think it's wildly unreasonable to say you can't poison the air and water while you're drilling for oil. And saying two rules must be dropped to impose a new one doesn't make much sense if it doesn't require assessing what's actually being regulated.

Let's look further. What was the total U.S. oil production in 2020, Trump's last year, and 2021, Biden's first full year, and -- to assess the pandemic's effects -- how do those numbers compare to world oil production in the same periods, and to U.S. imports of foreign oil in the same periods?

Oil is a global market. I think there's a limit to how much Biden can be blamed for gas prices.
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Sure Bob! Just have a look here:

"Standards of Performance for New, Reconstructed, and Modified Sources and Emissions Guidelines for Existing Sources: Oil and Natural Gas Sector Climate Review"

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...modified-sources-and-emissions-guidelines-for

Feel free to review the 2021 guidelines and standards set for oil and gas production in the US. There are many. While you do keep in mind these were 2021 and more are proposed and have been enacted for 2022. Each time you read one of the new guidelines concerning methane gas that puts a number on the amount allowed, it will be less than before due to the new emphasis on the climate and protecting us from evil greenhouse gases. Would you like to guess who tasked the EPA to be more environmentally friendly at the cost of production? No peeking.

I'm a fair person. I'll freely admit that President Biden is not 100% to blame for the high price of oil at this moment. There are "recent" contributing factors and to be fair I must allow him those and I do. However, the price of gasoline was rising long before Putin started misbehaving. President Biden's energy policies with emphasis on reduction of greenhouse gases, his halt on new leasing the first day in office, the revocation of Trump's Executive Orders that assisted energy production specifically Executive Order 13771 that limited agencies from enacting new regulations until removal of two existing regulations is and are crucial factors of the current cost of energy.

There are those that claim President Biden has nothing to do with energy production or the lack of it in the US. They say the current price of gasoline has nothing to do with his policies. That's dishonest to the point of being laughable. You can't even call it spin anymore, though my they do try.

The funny thing is, everyone already knew this was going to happen. It's not a surprise. You can't transition away from fossil fuels without gouging oil companies with regulations, reducing production, and raising the price of gasoline. Yet when the price climbed as everyone expected, nobody wants to claim responsibility? How ridiculous is that.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
I'm a fair person. I'll freely admit that President Biden is not 100% to blame for the high price of oil at this moment. There are "recent" contributing factors and to be fair I must allow him those and I do. However, the price of gasoline was rising long before Putin started misbehaving. President Biden's energy policies with emphasis on reduction of greenhouse gases, his halt on new leasing the first day in office, the revocation of Trump's Executive Orders that assisted energy production specifically Executive Order 13771 that limited agencies from enacting new regulations until removal of two existing regulations is and are crucial factors of the current cost of energy.There are those that claim President Biden has nothing to do with energy production or the lack of it in the US. They say the current price of gasoline has nothing to do with his policies. That's dishonest to the point of being laughable. You can't even call it spin anymore, though my they do try.

The funny thing is, everyone already knew this was going to happen. It's not a surprise. You can't transition away from fossil fuels without gouging oil companies with regulations, reducing production, and raising the price of gasoline. Yet when the price climbed as everyone expected, nobody wants to claim responsibility? How ridiculous is that.
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Some of this perception may well have much to do with the more specific arguments being forwarded. Biden policy being reasonably likely to raise the cost of gas by some indeterminate amount eventually? That's not a stretch at all. Your usage of "Yet when the price climbed as everyone expected?" Biden's share of the blame simply being "not 100%," but you focusing almost exclusively on a single aspect of his actions? Prices had been rising since long before Putin misbehaving? The prices had been rising since long before Biden was elected! The many-faceted massive disruptions in both supply and demand that occurred in direct relation to COVID, how the economy pretty well recovered under Biden anyways(a), and so on pretty much guaranteed major increases in gas prices from the suppressed prices that Biden started with no matter how friendly Biden might be with the oil and gas industries! The prices climbed quite a lot, as everyone should have expected under the circumstances because of the larger factors in play? Yeah, duh. Did Biden policy increase that by some amount? It's certainly plausible, especially when one pointedly focuses on only one aspect of the whole, but when the large bulk of the increase pretty obviously has much, much more to do with things outside of his control and many of the arguments being used to accuse him are crap, it's not surprising when there's reflexive backlash against arguments that are not really any better than the ones that you've singled out as laughable and dishonest.

(a) - Should Biden have pointedly worked to sabotage the economy? That would have helped keep gas prices down, after all. Instead, of course, he's pretty clearly worked to restore it, which also happens to drive up gas prices. How much effect he's had is, of course, subject to some similar caveats as his effect on gas prices.
 
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Aridas said:
(a) - Should Biden have pointedly worked to sabotage the economy? That would have helped keep gas prices down, after all.
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Bingo.

That's the response to the "the price of gas was $1.60 when Trump was president" nonsense.

Yeah, great. All Biden needs to do is to crash the economy again, get our unemployment back up over 10%, and gas prices will be fixed!
 
So, with fuel prices going back down, did Biden call off the "war" on fossil fuel? Did he surrender? Did the fuels cleverly outmaneuver him?

Surely that "war" couldn't have been just another Republican lie! There were regulations, and we all know regulations are war!
 
Aridas said:
Some of this perception may well have much to do with the more specific arguments being forwarded. Biden policy being reasonably likely to raise the cost of gas by some indeterminate amount eventually? That's not a stretch at all. Your usage of "Yet when the price climbed as everyone expected?" Biden's share of the blame simply being "not 100%," but you focusing almost exclusively on a single aspect of his actions? Prices had been rising since long before Putin misbehaving? The prices had been rising since long before Biden was elected! The many-faceted massive disruptions in both supply and demand that occurred in direct relation to COVID, how the economy pretty well recovered under Biden anyways(a), and so on pretty much guaranteed major increases in gas prices from the suppressed prices that Biden started with no matter how friendly Biden might be with the oil and gas industries! The prices climbed quite a lot, as everyone should have expected under the circumstances because of the larger factors in play? Yeah, duh. Did Biden policy increase that by some amount? It's certainly plausible, especially when one pointedly focuses on only one aspect of the whole, but when the large bulk of the increase pretty obviously has much, much more to do with things outside of his control and many of the arguments being used to accuse him are crap, it's not surprising when there's reflexive backlash against arguments that are not really any better than the ones that you've singled out as laughable and dishonest.

(a) - Should Biden have pointedly worked to sabotage the economy? That would have helped keep gas prices down, after all. Instead, of course, he's pretty clearly worked to restore it, which also happens to drive up gas prices. How much effect he's had is, of course, subject to some similar caveats as his effect on gas prices.
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The US economy is a disaster. There has been no recovery and much talk of recession. (With current inflation it's somewhat magical how we're not already there, perhaps we are not being told things by the Media that would tend to look bad for the Biden Admin?) Just a guess of course but it would seem the Media is forgiving beyond belief to the Biden Admin. But to even suggest the economy has recovered under Biden is enough spin to dizzy Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow both to the point of upchuck. What we have and what is undeniable is a distressed US economy, record breaking inflation and record breaking high prices of energy. Not limited to just the price of gasoline.

Please don't misunderstand my fairness statement above about other contributing factors to the price of oil rising. I focus on real issues and policies that have affected energy production under Biden. I allow only that Russia was a contributing factor that further increased the price of oil. However the price of oil was increasing at a steady rate under Biden anyway (as expected) due to his actions I outlined above. That's the main difference between reality and the Spinner's take.

There is also a noticeable difference between my definition of the price of oil rising and your definition it would seem, mainly the timing. I use the average price of oil during Trump's Presidency prior to the pandemic shutdown when oil crashed to nothing. You seem to be using the point at which the price of oil crashed to nothing and measuring the continued rise from that point attributing an increase to the previous Administration because it rose from effectively "0.00" at the worst point of the pandemic crash. That's a bit too spinny for my taste. I prefer cold hard facts, documented evidence and reality without the spin. You know, like the post with the Executive Orders, names, dates, Government agency policies that were changed, how they changed, how that affects energy and production in the US etc.
 
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