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The bible makes me sick.

Eos of the Eons

Mad Scientist
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
13,749
http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html

Again. Bad enough women lay with their sonless father to try to give him a son (those bad girls for being daughters instead of sons). There are more things to piss me off that I learned by taking the above quiz.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html

Again. Bad enough women lay with their sonless father to try to give him a son (those bad girls for being daughters instead of sons). There are more things to piss me off that I learned by taking the above quiz.

No one said they were bad because they were not males.
Neither does the Bible tell us that the incident was approved.
Those ideas are ideas that your mind infuses into the text either voluntarily or involuntarily. Furthermore, if reading the Bible makes you sick, perhaps not reading it would be the solution in your particular case. Makes sense?
 
Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:
Furthermore, if reading the Bible makes you sick, perhaps not reading it would be the solution in your particular case. Makes sense? [/B]


Maybe you'd like to explain to Eos instead how the destruction of the Temple is regarded by Christians to be the symbolic shedding of the old law?

I think you could probably represent your viewpoint better by responding to these facts for what they are. There was only one question on that page that I thought the answer to was wrong.

And while we're at it, I've got some open questions for you in your Hume thread.
 
Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:


No one said they were bad because they were not males.


Really, that story about original sin was just made up, then?


Neither does the Bible tell us that the incident was approved.


Then how come it doesn't say that they were smitten with pox and gangrene?


Those ideas are ideas that your mind infuses into the text either voluntarily or involuntarily.


Why would you say something so disgusting as that? Why isn't the Bible specific? If it's the word of God, are you saying that God wants to talk about stuff she doesn't approve of, and not express her dislike? God is trying to mislead us? Hello???


Furthermore, if reading the Bible makes you sick, perhaps not reading it would be the solution in your particular case. Makes sense?

Really? Ignorance is bliss?
 
Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:


No one said they were bad because they were not males.
Neither does the Bible tell us that the incident was approved.
Those ideas are ideas that your mind infuses into the text either voluntarily or involuntarily. Furthermore, if reading the Bible makes you sick, perhaps not reading it would be the solution in your particular case. Makes sense?

No, but God doesn't dole out punishment either for Lot's daughters. Unless it was excised for whatever reason. That's why people keep bringing that up. God liked to lay the Holy Smack down on people a lot in the Old Testament. That these two women are apparently left unscathed implies that God was ok with this to us.

The Bible consistantly treats women as second-class citzens and property. While it doesn't make me sick, it is disquieting and I'm thankful we've moved past having to hold to that as a society in general.

I personally feel the tendancy towards screwed-up crap is not limited to Judeo-Christians and Islam and for all the good religion can do for people, it's done and is doing a holy metric #$%@ton of bad too because of the afore-mentioned crap.
 
Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:
Neither does the Bible tell us that the incident was approved.
Those ideas are ideas that your mind infuses into the text either voluntarily or involuntarily.

The OT God definately approves of incest - at least in some circumstances.

Remember, Onan was killed by God because he thought it was wrong to have sex with his sister-in-law. God disagreed. Violently.
 
Re: Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

LostAngeles said:

The Bible consistently treats women as second-class citizens and property.

Consisteantly does what?


Man is described as being incomplete, unable to function properly without a woman.

Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

In short, he needed her help.


There are two biblical books which bear the name of women

The Book of Esther
The Book of Ruth

Esther was instrumental in saving Israel from being slaughtered by a scheming Edomite.

Modern Jews still celebrate this event on the holiday called Purim.


Ruth became the ancesstress of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Miriam was a prophetess:

Exodus 15:20
Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing.
:21
Miriam sang to them: "Sing to the LORD , for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea."


King Solomon was inspired to praise a good wife.
All the privileges such women enjoyed are described here:


Proverbs 18

22 He who finds a wife finds what is good
and receives favor from the LORD .


Proverbs 31:
The Wife of Noble Character
10 [3] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

Solomon was also inspired to write a whole book dedicated to praising both the loveliness of a woman he sought and her unyielding faitfulness to her true love.

Song of Solomon 8:
7Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it.

This faitfulness prefigured the faithfulness that the Church would have toward Christ though it be placed under tempation as Solomon placed the Shulamite maiden.



The Apostle Paul reminds the Christian husband to treat their wives with kindness as if they were their own bodies.


Ephesians 5
28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church--

God appointed Deborah, a prophetess to lead his people during the time of the Judges:

Judges 4:4
Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading [ 4:4 Traditionally [ judging ] ] Israel at that time.

God also granted Anna, the privilege of prophesying about the Christ:

Luke 2
36There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, 37and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.[5] She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. 38Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.


The Christian Church is described as being female--the bride of Christ:


2 Corinthians 11:2
I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.


Revelation 19

6Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:
"Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)

God saw fit to transef the life of his only Begotten Son into the womb of a woman--Mary

Luke 1:
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.

There are many more verses which are positive in reference to women. So the statement that the Bible is invariably negative toward women is not true.
 
Eve was made to be subject to Adam for starters.

Solomon, in his wisdom, gets more p@$$! than Ramseses and doesn't even get a condom named for him.

In fact, aside from Jesus and Paul, who else in the Bible isn't getting a whole bunch of booty? Polygamy runs rampant.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife or ass or anything that is his.

The Book of Esther tells of a drunken king who demands his wife perform a strip tease for his guests. Because she refuses, she is replaced by Esther and the king decrees that all women are subject to their husbands and must "give them honor" Esther gets to be queen by being the best lay. Then she saves the Israelites, granted. Because she's good in the sack.

Ruth is solely about how Naomi has Ruth hook up with her husband and she gets knocked up with the grandfather of King David.

Paul spends plenty of time in Corinthians about how women suck, should keep their mouths shut in church and must cover their head, lest they tempt men with their innate wickedness.

For added fun:

Leviticus 12:1-5
Bearing a female child makes you more unclean than bearing a male
12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.

Dueteronomy 22:13-
Hate your wife? Commit rape?
22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
22:16 And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
22:18 And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
22:19 And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:

...
God saw fit to transef the life of his only Begotten Son into the womb of a woman--Mary

Luke 1:
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.

She had to purify herself afterwards and what else was God going to put his Beloved Fetus into?

Also, Adam's helper was first looked for amongst the animals in KJV
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

LostAngeles said:


She had to purify herself afterwards and what else was God going to put his Beloved Fetus into?

Also, Adam's helper was first looked for amongst the animals in KJV


Ceremonial cleansing was merely that-ceremonial.
Men also had their rituals of ceremonial cleanings.
Even the priests themselves had them.
So women were not being singled out as you prefer to believe.
The fact is that if women were considered inferior, then why were they allowed to prophesy, lead Israel, used as symbols of God's church, husbands instructed to treat them with kindness, whole biblical books written about them and bearing their names, and why would Adam be said to need a woman's help to function properly?

Also, Solomon praises a good wife and depicts her as running the house according to how she saw fit. For which the husband is grateful. All this just doesn't jive with the accusation that women were treated like scum CONSISTENTLY as the other accuser states.

Your reference to bestiality is a pure figment of your imagination.
The expression that there was not found a helper among the animals merely means that non qualified as a helper or companion for Adam as they obviously qualified for one another due to being of the same species.

Simply stated, Adam noticed that among the animals there were non that bore his physical image and so all were unsuitable. It doesn't mean that he went berserk rampaging and trying to copulate with the beasts as you seem to suggest.

Being a perfect man he would have no such degraded tendencies.
Neither would Adam be susceptible to the uncontrollable lusts that are so common among imperfect mankind. His mind was perfectly balanced and fully under his rational control.

That is the correct, common sense and decent understanding of what is said. Neither should we assume that God waited until Adam was overcome with desperate loneliness to provide him with Eve. That too would be unreasonable to conclude unless one has an ulterior agenda that needs to be satisfied and therefor MUST understand it in that particular way.
 
scribble said:
Radrook, do you plan to get back to me?

I have been searching all day for that subject where a scripture is said to mean that God brings evil and have not been able to find it. I tried yesterday morning. Can you please tell me where it is?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

Radrook said:

Your reference to bestiality is a pure figment of your imagination.
The expression that there was not found a helper among the animals merely means that non qualified as a helper or companion for Adam as they obviously qualified for one another due to being of the same species.


Actually I was taking it as a "helper" literally, not bestiality.

Originally posted by Radrook
Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

In short, he needed her help.

No where in there do I see "sex". I see "helper", something that will help Adam in his duties of tending the garden.
 
Though the quiz has some errors:

First of which it should use a better witnessed translation than the KJV. . . .

1. What is the last of the Ten Commandments?

There are different versions and there are not ten.

3. What is God's name?

Not really fair. One can argue "my name is jealous" is figurative. It also neglects the names suggest the school of authorship. There are numerous names. Many have titles attached to El such as El Shadday. There is also Elohim which is plural but often used as a singular. There is also YHWH.

9. What is the origin of the "mighty men" giants known as nephilim?

1. They were the offspring of God's angels and young women.


The really screw this one up. Most ironic because the truth is more offensive! First, they are not "giants"--this results in translations into the Greek Septuagint. Giants do exist in later episodes, and later commentators equated them.

Worse, they are NOT angels.

They are the bene elohim--"sons of the gods." Most try to argue it is "sons of God" but other examples in the texts biblical and extrabiblical indicate otherwise. This is the opening to the Flood Myth and some scholars feel this fragment is part of the whole myth in that you have a mating of gods with women, then offspring, thus a threat, hence squish the humans.

12. According to the bible, what is God not able to do?

There are even more:

1. Unable to find people.
2. Unable to defeat a Moabite god--most likely Chemosh

13. According to the bible, where does God live?

Depends on the passage.

31. According to Jesus, what must you do to have eternal life?

Depends on the gospel.

In Mk you have to be part of the group told the secrets--that is you have to be part of his intended audience!

In Jn you have to be predestined for salvation--"born from above."

--J.D.
 
Doctor X said:
Though the quiz has some errors:

First of which it should use a better witnessed translation than the KJV. . . .

I flagged two of those - but in my defense, I only skimmed it after I realized 90% of it was old law.

By the way, the KJV is still the favorite of all the fundies I know personally. Which is a fair number.
 
Scribble:

Well that is true, so a FundiDestroyer [Tm.--Ed.] must know the KJV and where it is wrong.

In the KJV defense it translates the Ezekiel passage where YHWH admits to ordering child sacrifice quite strictly.

Of course Radrook will ignore all of this because it does not fit his preconceived notiions.

--J.D.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html

Again. Bad enough women lay with their sonless father to try to give him a son (those bad girls for being daughters instead of sons). There are more things to piss me off that I learned by taking the above quiz.
I scored 32 out of 50, I feel proud :)
 
Re: Re: Re: The bible makes me sick.

scribble said:

Remember, Onan was killed by God because he thought it was wrong to have sex with his sister-in-law. God disagreed. Violently.

You appear to use a rather peculiar definition for incest.
 

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