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The behaviour of UK police officers.

Nessie

Penultimate Amazing
Nessie
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
16,177
This is the UK sleep walking into major problems whereby a 47 year old female police officer, who does not look like she could fight her way out of a wet paper bag, tazers a 64 year old man, who also does not look like he could do much in a fight.

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2018/05/...red-by-court-after-forces-race-relations-adv/

The the key part incident is in the video at 01.20, after a shoving match, which the police officers win as the male is unable to get through the gate he wants to go through. The police officer tazers him in the face.

She was charged with assault, but was found not guilty as the Judge stated;

"The issue for me is whether the prosecution have persuaded me that she didn't act in self-defence.
"The prosecution failed to persuade me and she is found not guilty of assault for that reason."

I do not see what she did as self defence. The two police officers were never at any threat. She tazers him because she wants no risk at all to her. She should not be in the police if she cannot deal with such a minor problem without resorting to the tazer.

At least she is still to face misconduct charges.
 
In the US, self-defense is an affirmative legal defense: a defendant must prove the self-defense to be necessary. The way the judge stated his reasoning, it sounds as if, in the UK (unlike in the US), self-defense as a legal defense is a passive (not affirmative) defense. That is, it is assumed to be true unless the prosecution specifically shows it is not. This could easily explain the result, even given your misgivings about the incident.

Sadly, my Google-fu has not been up to the task of determining the status of self-defense in UK law.
 
A claim of self defence has to be presented by the defence, with evidence to back it up. It is then the prosecutions job to prove it was not self defence;

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/self-defence-and-prevention-crime

"When considering the sufficiency of the evidence in such cases, a prosecutor must be satisfied there is enough reliable and admissible evidence to rebut the suggestion of self-defence. The prosecution must rebut self-defence to the criminal standard of proof..."

"Burden of Proof

The burden of proof remains with the prosecution when the issue of self-defence is raised.
The prosecution must adduce sufficient evidence to satisfy a jury beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant was either:
not acting to defend himself/herself or another; or
not acting to defend property; ornot acting to prevent a crime or to apprehend an offender; or
if he was so acting, the force used was excessive.

Prosecutors should take special care to recognise, and ensure a sufficiency of evidence in, those cases where self-defence is likely to be an issue."
 
It looks to me that she panicked as a result of the "suspect" tussling with her colleague, notwithstanding the fact he had disengaged about a second or so before she fired. If the "suspect" hadn't been acting belligerently, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
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What I don't understand is how come there's an 'bull' type looking dog present but it didn't kill everyone present on the spot!
 
He did have ID that for reasons unknown he elected to offer only after being tasered, floored and half cuffed. It suggests to me that he was pissed of at persistently being pulled by reason of being mistaken for somebody else and decided on this occasion he wasn't going to play ball.

Can't for the life of me see why that WPC decided to taser but she was gagging to do so having pulled the taser gun at some point prior to the video. Make me wonder what we didn't see.

Still, all said and done, it's time (again) to trot out Bluesjnrs' Razor.

In all interactions with a police officer (serving or otherwise) they will attempt to put you on the wrong side of the law. Taking that into consideration act accordingly.
 
I think she is just not physically and mentally up to the job and dealign with belligerent people. She was clearly considered to be promotion material, as she has sergeants stripes on in the video, but is referred to as a PC. I hope she is not going to be promoted and indeed I hope she is sacked.

She used excessive force on an elderly man and it is a disgrace she was found not guilty.
 
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So, she clearly saw an elderly man who was about the same size as her. She is with a PC who is bigger than both of them.

She is not up to the job of police officer if she cannot arrest without using such a high degree of force.
 
Nessie said:
So, she clearly saw an elderly man who was about the same size as her.
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So? He seems to be active enough, and isn't doddering along with a walking frame.

She is with a PC who is bigger than both of them.

She is not up to the job of police officer if she cannot arrest without using such a high degree of force.
Click to expand...

How sexist.
 
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Information Analyst said:
So? He seems to be active enough, and isn't doddering along with a walking frame.
Click to expand...

Tazer is for a high level of threat. The main impact factors in determining his level of threat are age and size, so in that respect he is a low risk. His behaviour is also argumentative, not threatening and the most he does is try and shrug off and push past when the police try and get hold of him.

How sexist.
Click to expand...

A male police officer who acted the same way, would also be wrong and not up to the job.
 
Nessie said:
Tazer is for a high level of threat. The main impact factors in determining his level of threat are age and size, so in that respect he is a low risk. His behaviour is also argumentative, not threatening and the most he does is try and shrug off and push past when the police try and get hold of him.
.....
Click to expand...

In the U.S. we wish scared cops would use Tasers. Here, a cop who claims he feels threatened can kill people at will and get away with it.
 
I say this is an assault by police and excessive force was used. Yet the Sun newspaper describes it as a "brilliant moment";

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...glar-and-batter-him-to-the-ground-with-baton/

"a police officer creeps up on a burglar as he tries to break into a house with a crowbar – taking him down before his fellow cops pile in.
The bungling crook was whacked with a baton and tackled to the ground after officers in Glasgow caught him trying to force open a patio door, thinking the property was empty."

There is no threat to the police, no indication the burglar is going to attack, yet he gets hit from behind, dragged to the ground and piled upon.

I am sure it was fun and satisfying for the police, but they could have achieved the same result by issuing a warning with a drawn baton or grabbing the housebreaker from behind.
 
Nessie said:
So, she clearly saw an elderly man who was about the same size as her. She is with a PC who is bigger than both of them.

She is not up to the job of police officer if she cannot arrest without using such a high degree of force.
Click to expand...

There are no implements with which to cause harm across the pond? Not people willing to use them on officers?

Please try to downplay it, then I will gladly link to plenty of acab themed videos detailing how to carry around dangerous items from right in the UK.
 
Nessie said:
I say this is an assault by police and excessive force was used. Yet the Sun newspaper describes it as a "brilliant moment";

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...glar-and-batter-him-to-the-ground-with-baton/

"a police officer creeps up on a burglar as he tries to break into a house with a crowbar – taking him down before his fellow cops pile in.
The bungling crook was whacked with a baton and tackled to the ground after officers in Glasgow caught him trying to force open a patio door, thinking the property was empty."

There is no threat to the police, no indication the burglar is going to attack, yet he gets hit from behind, dragged to the ground and piled upon.

I am sure it was fun and satisfying for the police, but they could have achieved the same result by issuing a warning with a drawn baton or grabbing the housebreaker from behind.
Click to expand...

Ever been hit with a crowbar? I havnt as evidenced by the fact I carry no permanent debilitating injuries.
 
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