The BBC is now a mouthpiece for Zionism!

[Tin Foil Timothy]

TFT,

It seems as if your defenition of truth and lies is not based on an evaluation of the claim but on wether the conclusion agrees with you or not.

Anti-zionist or pro-Palistinian = Truth
Pro-zionist or anti-Palisitinian = Lie

while you may be right, your method of assesment leads me to not trust your judgement in these matters.

I happily proclaim to be on the side of humanity. I've always condemned any inhumane actions against innocent Israelis and Innocent Palestinians.

I alos happily proclaim to be on the side of the Palestinians becuase they are the one's who have had their land stolen and have been racially persecuted for 60 years due to the Zionist Movements agenda of Israeli hegemony and expansionism in the region.

I'm not asking you or anyone to trust my judgment. Anyone looking at the situation themselves can see what's going on.

 

[cwalner]

I happily proclaim to be on the side of humanity. I've always condemned any inhumane actions against innocent Israelis and Innocent Palestinians.

TFT, I have not been here long (less than a year), but I have read a number of your posts in that time and this appears to be pure bull****

I would love for you to disprove this appearance. Please link for me a single post that you have made that condemned inhumane actions against innocent Israelis.

 

[The Fool]

TFT, I have not been here long (less than a year), but I have read a number of your posts in that time and this appears to be pure bull****

I would love for you to disprove this appearance. Please link for me a single post that you have made that condemned inhumane actions against innocent Israelis.

pure bull****?

you have read a number of his posts have you?

did you read the one that contained this?

"I readily condemn the murdering of innocent Israelis by the Palestinians. in fact I would alway call for them to stop firing rockets over the Gazan border at Israel."

or did you spot this one?

"On the other hand I totally condemn the murdering of innocent Israeli citizens."

or maybe you noticed this one?

"I fully realise that many Arabs hate Israelis with a passion. I condemn them for it."

maybe you got up early enough to catch this one?

"I have condemned attacks on Israeli civilians many times here. And I will continue to do so."

Maybe you stayed up late enough to witness this one?


"I whole heartedly condemn the killing of innocent Israel and Palestinian civilians, and I certainly condemnHamas aiming rockets at civilians."

the above are the results of ten minutes searching on the word "condemn"....there are probably more and more with the same meaning but not using the word "condemn".

I have not linked to them because frankly you could do with the forum search practice...

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

TFT, I have not been here long (less than a year), but I have read a number of your posts in that time and this appears to be pure bull****

I would love for you to disprove this appearance. Please link for me a single post that you have made that condemned inhumane actions against innocent Israelis.

All you have done is to prove your nonsense is pure bull****

Big thanks to The Fool for saving me the job of searching out my own posts.

Take my advice. Before condemning people as coming out with pure bull**** please get your facts straight, otherwise you just make yourself look stupid as you just have done.. Now go away and learn how to use the forum search function and then perhaps you could return and apologize.

 

[lionking]

pure bull****?

you have read a number of his posts have you?

did you read the one that contained this?

"I readily condemn the murdering of innocent Israelis by the Palestinians. in fact I would alway call for them to stop firing rockets over the Gazan border at Israel."

or did you spot this one?

"On the other hand I totally condemn the murdering of innocent Israeli citizens."

or maybe you noticed this one?

"I fully realise that many Arabs hate Israelis with a passion. I condemn them for it."

maybe you got up early enough to catch this one?

"I have condemned attacks on Israeli civilians many times here. And I will continue to do so."

Maybe you stayed up late enough to witness this one?


"I whole heartedly condemn the killing of innocent Israel and Palestinian civilians, and I certainly condemnHamas aiming rockets at civilians."

the above are the results of ten minutes searching on the word "condemn"....there are probably more and more with the same meaning but not using the word "condemn".

I have not linked to them because frankly you could do with the forum search practice...

Brilliant cherry picking. Keep on sticking up for your mate.

 

[The Fool]

Brilliant cherry picking. Keep on sticking up for your mate.

the guy asked for "for me a single post that you have made that condemned inhumane actions against innocent Israelis." I provided this and more..

Its really quite funny....when asked for an example I "cherry pick" an example....you really don't understand the concept of cherry picking do you.....or( it seems) debate.....you are now limited to slurs by association?

aim up a bit.

 

[cwalner]

pure bull****?

you have read a number of his posts have you?

did you read the one that contained this?

"I readily condemn the murdering of innocent Israelis by the Palestinians. in fact I would alway call for them to stop firing rockets over the Gazan border at Israel."

or did you spot this one?

"On the other hand I totally condemn the murdering of innocent Israeli citizens."

or maybe you noticed this one?

"I fully realise that many Arabs hate Israelis with a passion. I condemn them for it."

maybe you got up early enough to catch this one?

"I have condemned attacks on Israeli civilians many times here. And I will continue to do so."

Maybe you stayed up late enough to witness this one?


"I whole heartedly condemn the killing of innocent Israel and Palestinian civilians, and I certainly condemnHamas aiming rockets at civilians."

the above are the results of ten minutes searching on the word "condemn"....there are probably more and more with the same meaning but not using the word "condemn".

I have not linked to them because frankly you could do with the forum search practice...

Yes, I know that TFT has repeatedly said that he condemns inhumane actions against israelis. Repeating a lie does not make it true. I should have been more clear. What I should have asked TFT for was a post where he specifically condemned a specific act of inhumane treatment of Israelis

What would also make the claim stronger is a post that did nothing but condemn such a specific act. Since you did not provide a link, those quotes are probobly taken out of context and could easily be followed by "But <typical TFT Israel bashing for rest of post>"

My point is that TFT is cleary partisan on the Isreal-Palestine issue. There is nothing wrong with that. It is only an issue when he makes absurd claims about being 'on the side of humanity' to imply that his partisanship is based on a balanced perspective. The claim is equivalent to Fox News referring to itself as 'Fair and Balanced'. The only people who beleive that about Fox News are those that agree with thier political agenda. The only people who agree with TFT's claim of being 'on the side of humanity' are those who already agree with his pro-Palestinian Agenda.

The fact that he would make such a claim to neutrality makes all of his claims against Israel that much less believable.

You can take what I have to say for what its worth. Looking at my posting history shows a clear pro-Isreal bias. I am a Jew and most likely would be considered a zionist because I approve of the idea of a Jewish homeland in the Lavant even though I have not taken any direct action in support of it. My support for Israel is therefore based on purely emotional reasons (yes I acknowledge this) and do not know much about the history. I come to these threads to hopefully learn.

Because of this what I want most is peace for Israel. To be honest, on a basic level I could care less about peace for the Palestinians. However, since Isreal can only find peace by making peace with the Palestinians, I do want peace for the Palestinians because it serves the agenda I am really after. Also because of this, I often do object to many excesses of the extreme right within Israel. I do this not out of love for the Palestinians, but because I see such actions as harmful to Israel being able to make peace with the Palestinians and her neighbors.

I just wish others here (on both sides) would be as honest about thier motivations

So back to the challenge for TFT. Link for me a single post in which you condemned a specific incident of inhumanity against Israelis and did not use it as lead in for bashing Israel or Zionists and I will back off my claim. Otherwise I call bull**** on your claim to being 'on the side of humanity'.

 

[Thunder]

I happily proclaim to be on the side of humanity. I've always condemned any inhumane actions against innocent Israelis and Innocent Palestinians.

I have never seen you do it without one of us challenging you to do it.

 

[The Fool]

Yes, I know that TFT has repeatedly said that he condemns inhumane actions against israelis. Repeating a lie does not make it true. I should have been more clear. What I should have asked TFT for was a post where he specifically condemned a specific act of inhumane treatment of Israelis

sigh....another person who knows what someone "really means"...ok.

What would also make the claim stronger is a post that did nothing but condemn such a specific act. Since you did not provide a link, those quotes are probobly taken out of context and could easily be followed by "But <typical TFT Israel bashing for rest of post>"

oh...you want something "stronger" than what you specifically asked for, and if you got that what would you then want? This is known as goalpost shifting.
As for "out of context" if you do actually spend some time reading what TFT says you will find that these quotes are often in response to posts such as yours....

My point is that TFT is cleary partisan on the Isreal-Palestine issue.

thats fairly obvious. Try to find someone who is not.

I often do object to many excesses of the extreme right within Israel.

Can you provide an example from your posts?

if you can I could run you around with something like..

"Yes, I know that XXXX has repeatedly said that he condemns XXXX. Repeating a lie does not make it true. I should have been more clear. What I should have asked XXXX for was a post where he specifically condemned a specific act of XXXX"

There are probably two or three posters on this forum that use tub thumping language and grand appeals to emotion and various other language of the zealot. For this reason many other members figure they are open slather for smear and innuendo. I encourage you not to join that crew....


Do you often get accused of being indifferent to the suffering of innocents? Well show me where you have condemned the suffering of innocent Palestinians.....Be specific. Just condemning it repeatedly is apparently not enough.

but after this I'm not sure how you are going to hit my moving goalpost.

"To be honest, on a basic level I could care less about peace for the Palestinians."

you are indifferent to the suffering of Innocents...any condemnation you now cobble together will be dismissed as repeating a lie.

 

[The Fool]

I have never seen you do it without one of us challenging you to do it.

The latest goalpost is erected.....may I suggest putting them on wheels guys? It would save you a lot of digging and concrete...

 

[cwalner]

sigh....another person who knows what someone "really means"...ok.


oh...you want something "stronger" than what you specifically asked for, and if you got that what would you then want? This is known as goalpost shifting.
As for "out of context" if you do actually spend some time reading what TFT says you will find that these quotes are often in response to posts such as yours....

I apologize for the goalpost shift. This was due to my not being articulet enough in stating what I meant to ask in the first place. Your responses were accurate to how I phrased the question, but was not what I had in mind when I posed it. That is why I rephrased it to better communicate what I was thinking.

The fact that those quotes from TFT are only in response to others shows to me that he does not really care about the suffering of innocent Isrealis, but only wishes to present himself as if he does to claim some sort of neutrality that is not really there. This is further shown by another thread currently running in which TFT opened by posting support for a French political party that is anti-zionist and has as one of its platforms the forced relocation of all ashkanazi Jews to thier 'country of origin' despite now being Israeli citizens. This is not something that somebody who condemns injustice against innocent Israelis would support.

Do you often get accused of being indifferent to the suffering of innocents? Well show me where you have condemned the suffering of innocent Palestinians.....Be specific. Just condemning it repeatedly is apparently not enough.

but after this I'm not sure how you are going to hit my moving goalpost.

"To be honest, on a basic level I could care less about peace for the Palestinians."

you are indifferent to the suffering of Innocents...any condemnation you now cobble together will be dismissed as repeating a lie.

I have never condemned the suffering of Palestinians, innocent or otherwise. As I stated I am a partisan and am being open about it. I see the suffering of innocent Palestinians, especially at the hands of Israelis, as contrary to the long term welfare of the state of Israel. As such I oppose actions that Israel takes against the Palestinians because I see it as a strategically poor decision for Israel making it harder for Israel to get the peace that I want for it. Most of these actions, though, I view as resulting from Israel's siege mentality and its desire to defend itself regardless the cost. As such I do not see the actions as immoral so see no reason to condemn them. I simply see them as stragecally unwise for Israel's long term goals.

In short, I want Israel to stop retaliating against the Palestinians because I think it is in Israel's best interest to do so, not because I think Israel is morally wrong in defending itself from a dangerous enemy. Similarly, I think that the Palestinians would be better off if they focused on peace instead of retribution. Unfortunately, neither side can afford to make this decision unilatterally in the current situation

 

[The Fool]

The fact that those quotes from TFT are only in response to others shows to me that he does not really care about the suffering of innocent Isrealis, but only wishes to present himself as if he does to claim some sort of neutrality that is not really there.

you know what he "really thinks" ...ok

This is further shown by another thread currently running in which TFT opened by posting support for a French political party that is anti-zionist and has as one of its platforms the forced relocation of all ashkanazi Jews to thier 'country of origin' despite now being Israeli citizens. This is not something that somebody who condemns injustice against innocent Israelis would support.

TFT from that thread...
"No I don't support mass-deportation"
But of course you know what he "really thinks"



Why not debate TFT based on his actual statements? Rather than his supposed support for deportation that you cobble together from association?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Yes, I know that TFT has repeatedly said that he condemns inhumane actions against israelis. Repeating a lie does not make it true. I should have been more clear. What I should have asked TFT for was a post where he specifically condemned a specific act of inhumane treatment of Israelis

How slimy!!

Even when shown repeated examples of my condemning you just want to call me a liar. You've no basis for calling me a liar. It's just an ad-hom attack.
I should report you for it but you're not worth it.

What would also make the claim stronger is a post that did nothing but condemn such a specific act. Since you did not provide a link, those quotes are probobly taken out of context and could easily be followed by "But <typical TFT Israel bashing for rest of post>"

My point is that TFT is cleary partisan on the Isreal-Palestine issue. There is nothing wrong with that. It is only an issue when he makes absurd claims about being 'on the side of humanity' to imply that his partisanship is based on a balanced perspective.

You clearly have problems with simple concepts. Let me explain... Mybe you'll get it this time.

Being on the side of Humanity has nothing to do with neutrality on the Israel-Palestinian issue.

I've NEVER claimed to be neutral on the Israel-Palestinian issue. I'm firmly on the side of the Palestinians because despite their retaliations which have claim innocent Israeli lives they are clearly the victims against the Zionist Movements Agenda against them in order to cleanse Palestine for Israel.

What you should realize is that my being on the side of humanity is exactly why I am on the side of the Palestinians.

My view on the issues are balanced when taking into context the imbalances because (despite being the target of the constant childish Zionist abuse shouting 'racist' ) I don't form opinions based upon any prejudices for and against either side.

Yes those quotes provided by The Fool do come from posts that no doubt also contain much bashing of Israel's atrocities against the Palestinians. but so what? That doesn't mean the value of those statements are diminished in the slightest.

Just because Israel is the aggressor here it doesn't mean I blame ordinary Israelis for it. In the same way ordinary American's should be blamed for the neocon atrocities.

So yes I do heavily condemn the murdering of innocent Israelis, but that doesn't mean I see the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as 50-50 blame.

To recap. It's being on the side of humanity that causes me to blame the Zionist Movement for the atrocities in Palestine and to also condemn the slaughter of ALL innocent people, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian, Jew or Arab, etc, etc

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

The fact that those quotes from TFT are only in response to others shows to me that he does not really care about the suffering of innocent Isrealis, but only wishes to present himself as if he does to claim some sort of neutrality that is not really there.

FAIL.

I don't claim neutrality. I claim no prejudice. Of course there are many Zionist Apologists that will always see prejudice in any criticism of Israel, or try and twist it that way.

Not a day goes by here without some immature and cowardly snide remark insinuating I'm a racist. This can range from the outright accusation to really absurd methods. For example I posted some statistics comparing Palestinian and Israeli casualties, which most were sourced from official Israeli bodies. Yet the thread was hijacked with a pack of drooling Zionist Apologists and Israeli Atrocity deniers trying to disparage me and the thread because the site publishing the figures linked to a site that linked to a site that carried an ad for a book debating the Holocaust which was written by someone who questions the current 'official' view on the Holocaust. Absurdly I then get accused of linking to Holocuast denial sites. Even though the site I linked to contained nothing of the sort

... and something else worth noting ... how many of the Zionist Apologists here condemn the slaughter of innocent Palestinians. The best you'll get from them is "It's Hamas fault they being killed"

 

[mortimer]

For example I posted some statistics comparing Palestinian and Israeli casualties, which most were sourced from official Israeli bodies. Yet the thread was hijacked with a pack of drooling Zionist Apologists and Israeli Atrocity deniers trying to disparage me and the thread because the site publishing the figures linked to a site that linked to a site that carried an ad for a book debating the Holocaust which was written by someone who questions the current 'official' view on the Holocaust. Absurdly I then get accused of linking to Holocuast denial sites. Even though the site I linked to contained nothing of the sort

Yeah, those Holocaust deniers are sneaky, aren't they Timothy?

I mean, imagine you are a Holocaust denier, but you want to look impartial. So start up a site on another domain name that only lists casualties in the Israel-Palastinian conflict. Let your other site advertise Holocaust denial literature! Sneaky! You know?

 

[cwalner]

So yes I do heavily condemn the murdering of innocent Israelis, but that doesn't mean I see the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as 50-50 blame.

That's the problem right there TFT. If you were truly on the side of humanity, blame would not be important. Solutions towards ending the conflict would be.

I was like that not so long ago and some of earlier posts bear that out. I was so much a partisan of Israel, it was important to me to see things so that the blame for the conflict fell squarely on the Palestinians.

I have had something of an epiphany since then. I still am a partisan for Israel, but now I want Israel to find peace more than I want to blame the Palestinians for the conflict. continuing to blame the other side (for partisans on both sides) will prevent them from finding peace and will ultimately continue to hurt both sides.

If you are truly on the side of humanity, you will need to find a way to stop blaming Israel and start searching for ways for the Palestinians to find peace with Israel. Only with such a peace will the Palestinians ever have a chance to flourish as a people.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I happily proclaim to be on the side of humanity.

That is a fascinating bit of self serving woo. You are on the side of an abstraction that you assume exists. How does this make you different from a Scientologist, in re Xenu, or anyone who is on the side of their god?

Humanity can't do crap. A few people here and there can.

DR

 

[The Fool]

I happily proclaim to be on the side of humanity.

That is a fascinating bit of self serving woo. You are on the side of an abstraction that you assume exists. How does this make you different from a Scientologist, in re Xenu, or anyone who is on the side of their god?

Humanity can't do crap. A few people here and there can.

DR

TFT you sound more like Darth every day....


Darth....pass the Bourbon....

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

That's the problem right there TFT. If you were truly on the side of humanity, blame would not be important. Solutions towards ending the conflict would be.

I was like that not so long ago and some of earlier posts bear that out. I was so much a partisan of Israel, it was important to me to see things so that the blame for the conflict fell squarely on the Palestinians.

I have had something of an epiphany since then. I still am a partisan for Israel, but now I want Israel to find peace more than I want to blame the Palestinians for the conflict. continuing to blame the other side (for partisans on both sides) will prevent them from finding peace and will ultimately continue to hurt both sides.

If you are truly on the side of humanity, you will need to find a way to stop blaming Israel and start searching for ways for the Palestinians to find peace with Israel. Only with such a peace will the Palestinians ever have a chance to flourish as a people.

Complete and utter nonsense!!

The first way to finding peace is to properly expose the handicaps to peace. This typical Zionist'esque MO of trying to be dishonest about the Agenda and behavior of Israel has been the biggest handicap to peace in the region there ever was.

I've never claimed to have the answers, but the more people that know the truth about the situation and not the filtered Zionist version the quicker a solution will be found.

How do you expect a solution to be found when there's still a significant number in the world who are being indoctrinated with a distorted version of events and behaviors?

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Yeah, those Holocaust deniers are sneaky, aren't they Timothy?

I mean, imagine you are a Holocaust denier, but you want to look impartial. So start up a site on another domain name that only lists casualties in the Israel-Palastinian conflict. Let your other site advertise Holocaust denial literature! Sneaky! You know?

- you'll be talking about 'code words' next. Your tin foil hat is on inside out btw.