Split Thread The 9/11 Conspiracy Team

Oystein said:
  • Since there were only 7 alert sites in the continental US, and all of them near the sea borders, I believe that no general standing operating procedures called for FAA to alert NORAD in case of inland hijackings, and for NORAD to then handle the incident. Reason: NORAD's assets would be very much too far away for incidents that happen in the central northern states
  • Rather, requesting NORAD assistance for domestic incidents was an option
  • Nearly all fighter scrambles in the years running up involved incidents out at sea, with the Payne Steward case being the (sole?) exeption, which did not involve NORAD assets
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I lean towards your assessment about the threat coming from outside the USA. I guess that is why the FAA is the agency that requests for NORAD engagement. As for prior understanding of the possibility of hijacked planes being flown by Terrorist... I found this on the Internet.

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00779.pdf

... this paper is very interesting.

As for the scrambles that were generated, I haven't seen the data for the incidents overseas... not that I disagree with your comment, it is that I haven't seen it. The only thing that I have found was the below link and that is from the GAO trying to reduce the number of Alert sites in 1994.

http://www.fas.org/man/gao/gao9476.htm
 
Clayton Moore said:
Unless you think the pilots knew what the outcome of the hijacking would be.
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You have no point, you have no clue how a 767/757 code is changed, you have no clue the pilots are wearing seatbelt and shoulder harness, facing forward, unable to stop anyone from killing them in the seat, in seconds.

What is the code for I am being killed? The terrorists were not hijackers, they were thugs, murderers, what is the code for killing pilots?

The crew called their companies and told them people were being killed. Your purpose is to spread lies, mindlessly, you are successful. You better get back to Holocaust denial, your neoNAZI brothers in spreading stupid lies depend on you. You have idiotic claims on 911 and the Holocaust, how do you remain in ignorance on two topic based on killing humans by terrorists and the idiot Hitler?
 
beachnut said:
You have no point, you have no clue how a 767/757 code is changed, you have no clue the pilots are wearing seatbelt and shoulder harness, facing forward, unable to stop anyone from killing them in the seat, in seconds.

What is the code for I am being killed? The terrorists were not hijackers, they were thugs, murderers, what is the code for killing pilots?

The crew called their companies and told them people were being killed. Your purpose is to spread lies, mindlessly, you are successful. You better get back to Holocaust denial, your neoNAZI brothers in spreading stupid lies depend on you. You have idiotic claims on 911 and the Holocaust, how do you remain in ignorance on two topic based on killing humans by terrorists and the idiot Hitler?
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Your posts are a neocon lover's guide to spewing hate and venom. The neocon story of three huge building completely destroying themselves by falling on themselves will be laughable till we meet the Romulans and beyond.


How do you make the all the Borg laugh at once?


You tell them about WTC 1, 2, and 7.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Your posts are a neocon lover's guide to spewing hate and venom. The neocon story of three huge building completely destroying themselves by falling on themselves will be laughable till we meet the Romulans and beyond.


How do you make the all the Borg laugh at once?


You tell them about WTC 1, 2, and 7.
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I guess you weren't watching. They were pretty well fully damaged.

(BTW - the building count in NYC was SIX, not three.)
 
Clayton Moore said:
Your posts are a neocon lover's guide to spewing hate and venom. The neocon story of three huge building completely destroying themselves by falling on themselves will be laughable till we meet the Romulans and beyond.


How do you make the all the Borg laugh at once?


You tell them about WTC 1, 2, and 7.
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Your post is nonsense which shows you have no clue how the WTC complex was built, no clue what fire is, no clue what steel is, no clue what engineering is, no clue what science is. You were given the amount of energy in a building available in a gravity collapse, E=mgh, you failed to comment on the energy and picked lies.

Your claims, debunked since 911. http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

You have no point, you have no clue how a 767/757 code is changed, you have no clue the pilots are wearing seatbelt and shoulder harness, facing forward, unable to stop anyone from killing them in the seat, in seconds.

You have zero useful knowledge on 911, and you are so proud to spread lies and idiotic claims.

Ironic you make up delusional claims and never source it to the chief structural engineer for the WTC towers. He thinks your claims are nonsense, and you failed to study much of anything, the same you do for the Holocaust denial.

Here is Robertson on the tragedy of terrorists attacking his buildings.
http://www.nae.edu/Publications/Bridge/EngineeringandHomelandSecurity.aspx
http://www.nae.edu/Publications/Bri...ecurity/ReflectionsontheWorldTradeCenter.aspx
http://www.nae.edu/File.aspx?id=7345
You spread lies, why? You must like fantasy, you bring up Romulans and the Borg as you spread moronic claims.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Your posts are a neocon lover's guide to spewing hate and venom. The neocon story of three huge building completely destroying themselves by falling on themselves will be laughable till we meet the Romulans and beyond.


How do you make the all the Borg laugh at once?


You tell them about WTC 1, 2, and 7.
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I don't find the murder of thousands of people funny. I don't find it funny that ignorant terrorist apologizing fools who can't be bothered to do basic research continually spit out lies based on their ignorance.
 
EventHorizon said:
I don't find the murder of thousands of people funny. I don't find it funny that ignorant terrorist apologizing fools who can't be bothered to do basic research continually spit out lies based on their ignorance.
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Then go arrest Cheney and Rumsfeld.
 
EventHorizon said:
I don't find the murder of thousands of people funny. I don't find it funny that ignorant terrorist apologizing fools who can't be bothered to do basic research continually spit out lies based on their ignorance.
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He had to do something to get the discussion away from the pilots reaction to the hijacking so he posted that. "Clayton logic", when cornered into showing just how little he knows, post insulting rant and change subject.
 
ladmo said:
I lean towards your assessment about the threat coming from outside the USA. I guess that is why the FAA is the agency that requests for NORAD engagement. As for prior understanding of the possibility of hijacked planes being flown by Terrorist... I found this on the Internet.

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-00779.pdf

... this paper is very interesting.
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Yes, very interesting, thanks!
Stuart points out that
  • The idea of hijacked planes used as weapon was his personal, and did not rest on intelligence
  • Multiple hijacks were NOT expected
  • Hijacks originating from within the USA were NOT expected
Also, that scenario was simulated as only one of very many excercises they did on the staff floor - if there is a (work-)daily RICE excercise, then hijacks to crash was one possible scenario out of 200-250 in 2001 alone.

ladmo said:
As for the scrambles that were generated, I haven't seen the data for the incidents overseas... not that I disagree with your comment, it is that I haven't seen it. The only thing that I have found was the below link and that is from the GAO trying to reduce the number of Alert sites in 1994.

http://www.fas.org/man/gao/gao9476.htm
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I knew that paper already.

As for pre-9/11 scrambles all going out to sea, I don't recall having seen an official document that lists them all or specifically says so, but I do recall discussions here at JREF last year where some guys made a pretty good case that the assumption is at least about right. I do not expect you to believe it just so.



The picture that has emerged for me is this rather simple: NORAD had only very few assets left on alert after the cut-downs of the 90s, and no real precedent on how to handle domestic inflight emergencies, such as hijacks. The role of scrambled fighters in such case would mainly be to identify and escort, not to engage with weapons. On 9/11, fighters were scrambled out of Otis, but there was not enough time left to do anything about the NYC incidents (that's a matter of attainable maximum speed). More fighters were scrambled out of Langley, but with no definite target to intercept. In the confusion of the day (FAA was dealing with more than two possible hijacks), the Langley fighters were "parked" east out over sea, which may have been a poor judgement call or due to a misunderstanding. By the time AA77 was identified as the next threat, time had run out, too. I don't know if UA93 could have been intercepted if it had reached the Washington airspace, but it crashed on its own. Certainly, the Otis and Langley fighters were not going to leave the NYC and Washington CAPs. Other fighter units (not on alert) were ready to take off with weapons aboard only well after the Pentagon crash.

Or, to put it even briefer: NORAD was activated, but the terrorists had a good plan that panned out too quickly for anyone to successfully react.

I am aware that I am leaving out even the issue of rules of engagement, which is the question if the fighters could have done anything at all if they had managed to intercept any of the hijacks.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I think it's a matter of pushing a button. Pushing a button that is there to give the passengers the best chance to survive a hijacking. The families of those dead people deserve to know what prevented the pilots from pushing that button.
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I know it's a bit much to ask a truther to do research, but you should look up hijacking handling procedures.
 
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