The 276

[Polaris]

My first reaction to all this was "I'd like to shoot that bastard's left testicle off and then turn him over to the mothers and aunts of the girls He's kidnapped"
The smirk on the face of the HMFIC as well as his minions deserves to be removed with extreme prejudice.

You misspelled "chainsaws".

 

[theprestige]

How is it obviously not illegal?

Because the people that claim jurisdiction don't have it, and the people that do have jurisdiction haven't outlawed it.

 

[Polaris]

I hate to be the voice of pessimism, but similar experiences show that these girls are just gone. These were teenagers. It's pretty safe to presume that most, if not all, have been raped. Some are already married. Some are probably already pregnant. They've been dispersed to other African nations. The religious sensibilities of the parents and of the girls themselves probably wouldn't allow for them to return home.

I agree that Nigeria needs help in an effective offensive against the armed men who identify as Boko Harim. I agree that this kidnapping is offensive to the very core of what it means to be human. I'm glad if this event finally triggers the world to give Nigeria and Africa the help they deserve. But I don't think that a "rescue" is an attainable goal.

I hate to sound like Bono, but is there another place in the world where this would have been tolerated for this long? Even in Afghanistan?

 

[rwguinn]

You misspelled "chainsaws".

We both misspelled "FLINT KNIFE"

 

[Unabogie]

Wouldn't that be "racist". I mean, after all, that's their culture.

Why are you trying to turn this into a race thing?

 

[NoahFence]

Wouldn't that be "racist". I mean, after all, that's their culture.

Won't be their culture any more if they're taking a dirt nap.

 

[theprestige]

I'm glad if this event finally triggers the world to give Nigeria and Africa the help they deserve. But I don't think that a "rescue" is an attainable goal.

Ok, I'll bite:

What help would you say Nigeria deserves, that the world is currently withholding? How would this help, if given, reduce the likelihood of events like this in the future? What is the specific nature of this help, that the people and government of Nigeria could not already accomplish the same thing themselves today, if they wished? What is the specific nature of this help, that if provided by the world, would produce real good that the people and government wish to produce themselves today but cannot?

ETA: I mean, if you gave Nigeria the Selous Scouts, with the full faith and credit of the Nigerian government and adequate funding and logistical support, to wage war against Boko Harem, that would probably solve the problem with an acceptable level of collateral damage. To me, that would be the help Nigeria deserves, assuming Nigeria deserves good things and not, say, a shap stick in the eye.

But the Selous Scouts don't exist, and even if they did Nigeria probably wouldn't want them. There's probably also nothing really preventing Nigeria from implementing a similar unit with a similar mission if they wanted to, but if they don't it's not like the rest of the world could force them to.

 

[AlBell]

Maybe we could just buy them back.

Only if you have large enough housing, and stamina, to handle that many.

 

[Black Hole Box]

Why are you trying to turn this into a race thing?

Because if this were happening to blonde white girls, the world - and Nancy Grace in particular - would be in more of an outrage than Fox News pretends to be about Benghazi.

 

[Unabogie]

Because if this were happening to blonde white girls, the world - and Nancy Grace in particular - would be in more of an outrage than Fox News pretends to be about Benghazi.

Oh, I agree. But that poster was saying that there's some sort of reticence to criticize these monsters because of fear of sounding "racist" [scare quotes not mine]. Considering that everyone here, left and right, is duly upset, I didn't see the point of injecting that into the discussion.

 

[rwguinn]

Because if this were happening to blonde white girls, the world - and Nancy Grace in particular - would be in more of an outrage than Fox News pretends to be about Benghazi.

And because criticizing Muslims is racist by the lights of many here.

 

[Loss Leader]

But the Selous Scouts don't exist, and even if they did Nigeria probably wouldn't want them. There's probably also nothing really preventing Nigeria from implementing a similar unit with a similar mission if they wanted to, but if they don't it's not like the rest of the world could force them to.

I agree with you. Nigeria is, in its most urban parts, a kleptocracy. At its worst, it's somewhere between a theocracy and complete anarchy. In other parts, it's very little more than a subsidiary of foreign oil and mining interests.

The Nigerian government bears the burden of reforming itself. I think there's some logistical and humanitarian support that could be offered. I think France in particular owes it to Nigeria to reinvest some of the money from the resources they're taking. But the people of the country have to want change and they probably lack the political will.

 

[Unabogie]

And because criticizing Muslims is racist by the lights of many here.

Nope. Criticizing all Muslims because of actions by a few Muslims is bigoted. Criticizing radical extremists of all faiths is a time honored tradition on the left. Why are you pressing this loser of an issue? Have you found anyone defending these people? Like, anywhere?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I hate to be the voice of pessimism, but similar experiences show that these girls are just gone. These were teenagers. It's pretty safe to presume that most, if not all, have been raped. Some are already married. Some are probably already pregnant. They've been dispersed to other African nations. The religious sensibilities of the parents and of the girls themselves probably wouldn't allow for them to return home. I agree that Nigeria needs help in an effective offensive against the armed men who identify as Boko Harim. I agree that this kidnapping is offensive to the very core of what it means to be human. I'm glad if this event finally triggers the world to give Nigeria and Africa the help they deserve. But I don't think that a "rescue" is an attainable goal.

You have a lot of misinformation packed in here for a single post.

The first highlighted part there is culturally ignorant. And the second one is politically ignorant.

As so often happens, Democracy Now has more investigative reporting on important stories like this one. This backstory was especially revealing as to whether this is about god beliefs or politics. Judge for yourself.

OMOYELE SOWORE: Well, these are Islamist militants that became really deadly when the Nigerian government in 2009 went and extrajudicially killed their leaders. And there was no—they never got justice. And it was known that this was like mass killing by the Nigerian government of a likely fanatic, but peaceful, group that had schools and preached, you know, that the Islamic—I mean, they want pure Islam to reign in Nigeria. But it was not until the Nigerian police went and killed their leaders that Boko Haram became a big problem for Nigeria and Nigerians.

And corruption is a huge part of the problem explaining why the Nigerian government has done so little so far.

OMOYELE SOWORE: But this is what we’ve been saying on our website, that this government, the Nigerian government, has been so corrupt, too corrupt, to get anything done. Just two months ago, they fired the Central Bank governor because he said over $50 billion was stolen by the national—Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation. Army generals are pocketing moneys meant for buying weapons, motivating soldiers and police, that are supposed to be fighting Boko Haram. We published all of this. We obtained pictures from soldiers who are fighting Boko Haram who have nowhere to sleep, you know, have no water to drink, have no good food to eat. So, Boko Haram is actually better equipped and better motivated than the Nigerian army or the Nigerian police and security forces fighting them. So that’s the major dilemma. You know, this is, again, the outcome of years of corruption that has ravaged Nigeria for the last 50 years, you know, within which over $500 billion was stolen by Nigerian elites, sometimes to buy private jets.

One should always look at the background of the person one is accepting factual information from. From the Guardian:

Omoyele Sowore is a human rights and pro-democracy campaigner. He is founder and publisher of the much-cited SaharaReporters.com, website of citizen journalism, supplying videos, photos, news stories and commentaries that expose official corruption and abuse in Nigeria's government

The website: http://saharareporters.com/


Nigeria is an oil rich nation. They don't need help, they need to rout out corruptions and a new Prime Minister.

As for the girls, these are kids whose parents value educated girls. Parts of Nigeria are modern, it's not all backward villages of women in chadors. And there are both Christian and Muslim girls among those kidnapped.

The school counted Muslim and Christian girls among its students.

 

[fuelair]

My first reaction to all this was "I'd like to shoot that bastard's left testicle off and then turn him over to the mothers and aunts of the girls He's kidnapped"
The smirk on the face of the HMFIC as well as his minions deserves to be removed with extreme prejudice.

Not just the one. A lot of people out there owe for lives stolen. I have a business background (besides others I have noted I have about 75% of an MBA) so I know they should receive what they are owed. With interest based on how long it has been owed. And I would love to be able to help see they get everything they are owed.

 

[Travis]

How is it obviously not illegal?

4.6% of the population of Mauritania is slaves. That sure doesn't sound like it is illegal then.

There are special forces units that specialize in solving exactly this kind of problem. Hostage rescue is the raison d'etre of Delta Force, for example.

In all seriousness, I suspect that all the Nigerian government has to do is ask. But they probably won't ask, because they're not prepared to grant the kind of freedom of action and amnesty any self-respecting special forces commander in chief would insist upon, for an operation like this.

I think the worry is that the girls are dispersed. If you launch a raid to rescue one group the others might simply be gunned down in ditches then buried.

 

[fuelair]

4.6% of the population of Mauritania is slaves. That sure doesn't sound like it is illegal then.



I think the worry is that the girls are dispersed. If you launch a raid to rescue one group the others might simply be gunned down in ditches then buried.

If you carefully and at length martyr some of them, video it and make it available to the rest, as a very early option and apologise that you rushed the examples I suspect a number of them might rethink. No, change that - broadcast them so they can't edit the signal. Do not use any techniques that violate Muslim custom for the video.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I heard a brief report on NPR mention that we have "advisors" on the ground there.
Somebody's working on this.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The problem, (and I thought John Kerry was exceedingly diplomatic when he said the Nigerian government had its own plans), is that the government is completely corrupt. They've taken the money that should have gone to the military for themselves.

The US had previously complained about the corrupt government so the US wasn't exactly instantly welcome.

The underfunded army look like they became just as brutal as the insurgents. The insurgent uprising has been neglected, growing their territory while the government stole more money.

Now the problem is no longer ignorable. It's a mess and sadly the innocent victims are paying the price.

 

[Travis]

Nigeria has, for some time, been a place where politicians basically just embezzle enough money to live well in exile then go into exile. No one seems to want to actually stick around and solve problems. Hence issues like this where money intended to fund anti-terrorist campaigns instead bought luxury houses for Army officers.

I'm not sure how you fix that level of corruption. It would take a bunch of true believer ideologues coming to power all at once I would suspect.