The 100% Impossible 9/11 Inside Job

silver birch said:
my reasons for not believing the official story are,
1, it seems ludicrous that a passport survived the fire that cremated the hijacker and destroyed the flight recorders in fireproof cases.
2, if a passport did not have to be shown to board an internal flight, would a terrorist on a suicide mission have bothered carrying one anyway?
(unless they needed it to get into paradise and meet their 72 virgins)
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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.
The general form of the argument is as follows.

  • Major premise: One can't imagine (or has not imagined) how P could be so.
  • Minor premise (unstated): If P were so, one could imagine (or would have imagined) how.
  • Conclusion: Not-P.
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silver birch said:
my reasons for not believing the official story are,
1, it seems ludicrous that a passport survived the fire that cremated the hijacker and destroyed the flight recorders in fireproof cases.
2, if a passport did not have to be shown to board an internal flight, would a terrorist on a suicide mission have bothered carrying one anyway?
(unless they needed it to get into paradise and meet their 72 virgins)
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1) Perhaps the passport wasn't in the hijacker's pocket? Maybe it was in a bag. It's well known that items from massive crashes survive, and there are plenty of benign reasons.

2) A passport DID have to be shown to board an internal flight. It was either that, or a driver's license. Seeing as though they were foreigners, which form of ID do you suppose they would have?
Hint: Not the driver's license.

ETA - I should note that a passport could be used as ID in many other respects. It would be stupidity on an epic scale for one of the hijackers to not have it with him.

Think for god sake.
 
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NoahFence said:
1) Perhaps the passport wasn't in the hijacker's pocket? Maybe it was in a bag. It's well known that items from massive crashes survive, and there are plenty of benign reasons.

2) A passport DID have to be shown to board an internal flight. It was either that, or a driver's license. Seeing as though they were foreigners, which form of ID do you suppose they would have?
Hint: Not the driver's license.

ETA - I should note that a passport could be used as ID in many other respects. It would be stupidity on an epic scale for one of the hijackers to not have it with him.

Think for god sake.
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I did not realize that, as a british person I've never been to the states.
 
NoahFence said:
It would be stupidity on an epic scale for one of the hijackers to not have it with him.
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Quite. I've visited the US a couple of times, and taken internal flights, and always had my passport on me because a) it was handy for ID, and b) I had nowhere else to leave it. So what? This really is just inventing anomalies for the sake of it.
 
silver birch said:
although, it does seem odd to me, that they left the 'how to fly an airliner guide' in the car at the airport.
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NO NO NO NO. Don't change the subject. Acknowledge your incredulity about the passport is worthless or provide actual evidence that it was planted. THEN you can go on to something else.
 
silver birch said:
although, it does seem odd to me, that they left the 'how to fly an airliner guide' in the car at the airport.
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You saw the link I posted explaining that argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy, right?

Anyway, I hadn't heard this one before. Who left this book in which car? What exactly was the title of the book?
 
twinstead said:
NO NO NO NO. Don't change the subject. Acknowledge your incredulity about the passport is worthless or provide actual evidence that it was planted. THEN you can go on to something else.
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I'm quite prepared to concede any points in a discussion on this forum, however, I fail to find anything incredulous about not believing a passport survived the fire that cremated the hijacker, fell to ground through the fireball and was handed in as evidence.

why not question the incredulity of the 84% of Americans who do not beleive the official story either?
(poll carried out by CNN and new york times)
 
silver birch said:
I did not realize that, as a british person I've never been to the states.
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And I thought us Americans were the ones that were supposed to assume that the rest of the world worked exactly like our home country. :rolleyes:

So, let me get this straight: You were so confident in your conclusion that the insignificant detail of the hijacker's passport being found was pure deception. One of the major reasons for this conclusion is that you couldn't imagine that a foreigner in the United States would be carrying around a passport with him on an internal flight. And you couldn't imagine it, because, essentially, you had no damn clue about how things are done here in the United States.

How many of your other conclusions are based on complete ignorance, do you suppose?

silver birch said:
[...] I fail to find anything incredulous about not believing [...]
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My God, man... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incredulous

why not question the incredulity of the 84% of Americans who do not beleive the official story either?
(poll carried out by CNN and new york times)
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That was the New York Times/CBS, and the 84% is pure deception on the part of Prison Planet. That number includes the folks that answered "mostly telling the truth but hiding something" (53%). :rolleyes:
 
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silver birch said:
I'm quite prepared to concede any points in a discussion on this forum, however, I fail to find anything incredulous about not believing a passport survived the fire that cremated the hijacker, fell to ground through the fireball and was handed in as evidence.
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It has been shown that light objects can and have survived horrific explosions. The space shuttle is just one of them. Your refusal to admit that it is possible is the very definition of incredulous.

why not question the incredulity of the 84% of Americans who do not beleive the official story either?
(poll carried out by CNN and new york times)
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seriously? 84% of Americans believe that 9-11 was an inside job? LOL

You have no idea what you are talking about. You have been spoon fed crap and got all smug because you have never debated people who actually DO know what they are talking about. Well. Welcome to JREF.
 
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silver birch said:
although, it does seem odd to me, that they left the 'how to fly an airliner guide' in the car at the airport.
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Remember a couple of posts up when I asked...no.... begged you to think?

Attempting to be rational here, I'm going to ask you a question:

What is more important when going through security at an airport?

A passport

or

A guide on how to fly a plane?
 
silver birch said:
I'm quite prepared to concede any points in a discussion on this forum, however, I fail to find anything incredulous about not believing a passport survived the fire that cremated the hijacker, fell to ground through the fireball and was handed in as evidence.

why not question the incredulity of the 84% of Americans who do not beleive the official story either?
(poll carried out by CNN and new york times)
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The explanation of the survival of the passport has been given to you, and you have ignored it.

Ignorance is not sexy, no matter what you think. A patch survived the breakup of the Space Shuttle for crying out loud.
 
NoahFence said:
Remember a couple of posts up when I asked...no.... begged you to think?

Attempting to be rational here, I'm going to ask you a question:

What is more important when going through security at an airport?

A passport

or

A guide on how to fly a plane?
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"No passport or other ID sir? Hmmmm...oh, I see you have a guide on how to fly a plane. Very nice. Please step forward to the VIP line. NEXT!"
 
NoahFence said:
Remember a couple of posts up when I asked...no.... begged you to think?

Attempting to be rational here, I'm going to ask you a question:

What is more important when going through security at an airport?

A passport

or

A guide on how to fly a plane?
Click to expand...


To be fair, I don't think he was implying that they should have taken it with them into the airport or on the plane. I think he's wondering why it was in the car at all and not, say, back at their hotel.

Of course, nobody's lack of imagination is evidence for anything. silver birch hasn't quite comprehended that yet, unfortunately.
 
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Why not leave the book there? I mean their entire plan involved them dying so who would really care about some evidence being left behind?
 
carlitos said:
I'm not 100% positive that you had to show ID to board a plane before 9/11. Can someone confirm that?
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Even if you didn't have to you did have to have it in order to get in the country. So once you have arrived in the USA what are you to do with it aside from keep it with you? Mail it home? Lock it up in a safety deposit box?
 
carlitos said:
I'm not 100% positive that you had to show ID to board a plane before 9/11. Can someone confirm that?
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Not positive either, but showing ID for other things would have been needed. Such as renting your car. While vile and subhuman, these "people" weren't stupid. There is no way they would have left anything to chance - meaning they'd have their ID on them at all times. The only ID available to them would be their passport.

I'm comfortable assuming that one of them having their passport actually survive didn't occur to them, nor would they care if it did.
 
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