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Texas bans abortion.

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JoeMorgue said:
This is why I haven't bothered to ask the anti-abortion side what the net benefit of forcing children to be born into families that don't want them. I know we'd just get cherry picked example of "over coming."
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That and the assumption that existence is better than non-existence. Which is naive.
 
Suddenly said:
That and the assumption that existence is better than non-existence. Which is naive.
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This is why I argue that no matter the language being used the anti-abortion side is at its core still a "soul" argument.

They might not call it that, but it's the same idea across all these stupid idea in all the "potential person" arguments. This stupid idea that "identify" is some singular thing that exist and these by aborting these pwecious widdle babies we are removing some person who was destined to exist from the timeline like Terminators.

Abortion doesn't remove a potential person from existence anymore then the man ejaculating 1/100000th of a second later so a different sperm makes it to the egg first.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is why I argue that no matter the language being used the anti-abortion side is at its core still a "soul" argument.

They might not call it that, but it's the same idea across all these stupid idea in all the "potential person" arguments. This stupid idea that "identify" is some singular thing that exist and these by aborting these pwecious widdle babies we are removing some person who was destined to exist from the timeline like Terminators.

Abortion doesn't remove a potential person from existence anymore then the man ejaculating 1/100000th of a second later so a different sperm makes it to the egg first.
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I mean, if the soul enters the body at birth then being against abortion seems really mean to the unwanted child with totally overmatched parents. That soul probably would have been far better off waiting for the next one.
 
Warp12 said:
What a peach she was.

How a woman who advocated for the selective breeding of her fellow citizens came to be memorialized with those who built a country is hard to understand.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...-sanger-deserves-no-honors-column/5480192002/

Of course, there are plenty of apologists out there who love her. It's not so different from the dynamic we see in this thread, tbh. Sometimes it's hard to tell if I am at the ISF, or a Third Reich debate club meeting. :boggled:
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All or nothing, then? You either love Sanger or despise her? No way to praise some things she did and condemn other things she did?
 
Hitler started the first public anti-smoking campaign.

Everyone currently posting in the thread without a cigarette currently in their mouth, I will assume to have murdered 6 million Jews.
 
Planigale said:
I have to agree with smartcooky (unless I have misunderstood?)

Eugenicism is now assumed to be a 'Nazi' phenomenon, but pre WW2 it was a widely held belief both amongst those on the left (e.g. HG Wells) and the right. Many conditions were thought of as being inherited we would no longer consider as such. Even progressive liberal people used language that would be regarded as uncomfortably racist now.

I am uncomfortable about the racist connotations of negro doctors for negro patients, but movements like this and developing negro universities were seen as progessive at the time. Clearly she involved community leaders in her actions which is still advocated.

The concern about people thinking she was promoting a race based sterilisation program is interesting, it is something still raised e.g. with the covid vaccines, that they are intended to render Africans infertile. So ensuring community leaders can address these concerns is still something that would be done.

Sadly it is still true that the areas with the greatest poverty are those with the greatest need for birth control. Options then were of course limited. For a poor working class woman with multiple pregnancies, several children probably in a state of chronic malnutrition abortion may have been life saving for her and her current children.

I am sure that somewhere there are what we would view as offensive statements and racist terminology, e.g. her use of the word negro, but that does not mean she was a proto-Nazi or pro slavery.
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Thank you for a reasonable and accurate post.

A couple of things I'd like to point out though re the highlighted statements.

Sanger believed that the black community would trust "their own" and confide in black doctors with things that they simply would not white doctors. If you consider the prejudice and racial situation at the time, including that so many communities were segregated even outside the South, she was absolutely right. This was not Sanger being racist, but realistic.

Her use of "Negro" is of no concern at all as it was the term used by even Blacks themselves at the time. It was no more racist then than "Black" is today.

The anti-choice crowd needs to demonize Sanger because of Planned Parenthood. This is why they lie and misrepresent what she said, believed, and did. We see it being done in this very thread.
 
Paul2 said:
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
What a peach she was.

How a woman who advocated for the selective breeding of her fellow citizens came to be memorialized with those who built a country is hard to understand.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/5480192002/

Of course, there are plenty of apologists out there who love her. It's not so different from the dynamic we see in this thread, tbh. Sometimes it's hard to tell if I am at the ISF, or a Third Reich debate club meeting.
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All or nothing, then? You either love Sanger or despise her? No way to praise some things she did and condemn other things she did?
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Sanger never advocated for "selective breeding" the way Warp is dishonestly presenting it so there's no need to condemn it. As I said, we do much the same thing today with genetic testing. Women often undergo amniocentesis, especially older women, to specifically test for genetic diseases/conditions. Others, doing in vitro, test for genetic anomalies and then choose not to use those zygotes. I suppose, according to some, that makes them akin to Hitler's eugenics programs like Lebensborn.
 
Sanger is dead, not a member of the Texas Legislature, and not the topic of this conversation.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Sanger is dead, not a member of the Texas Legislature, and not the topic of this conversation.
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Seems to me she is the topic right now, Joe. If you don't like it, you can report it to the mods, but please stop telling us what we can discuss. That's not your decision.
 
Stacyhs said:
Seems to me she is the topic right now, Joe. If you don't like it, you can report it to the mods, but please stop telling us what we can discuss. That's not your decision.
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Oh well then let's talk about what Plato said about abortion then, it will be just as meaningful.

The Trolls are going to discuss everything but abortion. Don't help them.
 
It IS completely off-topic. Whether she was a saint or devil has absolutely no bearing on the right of abortion.
 
Olmstead said:
It IS completely off-topic. Whether she was a saint or devil has absolutely no bearing on the right of abortion.
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I disagree. The anti-abortion crowd's vilifying of Sanger and, through her, of Planned Parenthood is demonstrative of their tactics to stop abortion rights. Like they're doing in TX.
 
smartcooky said:
Others will know

(try a google image search)
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I know the guy was on some show about aliens, other than that, I don't know why you posted his picture in response to my posts. I am not going to waste anymore energy trying to figure that out. It would have been nice if you could have just explained what you meant. But you had to get snarky. farewell.
 
Warbler said:
I know the guy was on some show about aliens, other than that, I don't know why you posted his picture in response to my posts. I am not going to waste anymore energy trying to figure that out. It would have been nice if you could have just explained what you meant. But you had to get snarky. farewell.
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I am not against women's rights...but I am against women's rights.
 
Warbler said:
I know the guy was on some show about aliens, other than that, I don't know why you posted his picture in response to my posts. I am not going to waste anymore energy trying to figure that out. It would have been nice if you could have just explained what you meant. But you had to get snarky. farewell.
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You should look him up. Centauri culture as a whole is a sterling example of behaviors to avoid doing yourself.
 
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