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Texas bans abortion.

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Fast Eddie B said:
In discussing rights, there are two general classifications.

From Wikipedia:

Natural rights and legal rights are the two basic types of rights.

Natural rights are those that are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government, and so are universal, fundamental and inalienable (they cannot be repealed by human laws, though one can forfeit their enjoyment through one's actions, such as by violating someone else's rights). Natural law is the law of natural rights.

Legal rights are those bestowed onto a person by a given legal system (they can be modified, repealed, and restrained by human laws). The concept of positive law is related to the concept of legal rights.

Some of the debates here stem from each party referring to a different type.
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Perhaps, but the concept of natural rights or natural laws is one of faith or assumption. It assumes there are rights that all persons have but gives no such reason as to why other than "nature" which is a tautology, not a reason.
 
Warbler said:
I posted that as response to someone comparing a fetus to a cancerous tumor. I posted it to show cancerous tumor =/= fetus.
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All of the following are human
  • my cancerous tumor
  • a fetus
  • my hair
  • my skin cells
  • my toenails
  • my semen

But none of these things are

  • babies
  • infants
  • children
  • human beings
 
Babbylonian said:
A fetus has no "right to live," or any other rights for that matter. This is well established both by law and nature.
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A fetus has every right to live. But NOT NOT NOT NOT at the expense of anyone else.

Let's say i need a pint of rare blood that only my neighbor or sister or brother can provide. I will die otherwise. It still doesn't give the State the right to draw that blood from any of them.without their permission.

A fetus does not have nor should it have the right to force a woman to provide it a womb so it can grow into a baby. That's her womb. That's her body. Not the fetus's.
 
acbytesla said:
A fetus does not have nor should it have the right to force a woman to provide it a womb so it can grow into a baby. That's her womb. That's her body. Not the fetus's.
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The worst part is, all of these women getting pregnant by just drinking the water. Damn fetus, trying to barge in there and make itself at home. :rolleyes:
 
thaiboxerken said:
The declaration is neither a founding document or a legal one.
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It is not a legal one, but it is a founding document, by definition. It is where we declared we were a separate country. That is why we consider America' birthday July 4th, 1776 and not June 21, 1788 (when the Constitution was ratified) or March 4, 1789 (When the Constitution went into effect)
 
Warbler said:
Also I am not so certain it would be such a traumatic experience for a woman to give up a child when they were willing to abort same if it hadn't been for adoption. Finally, aborting the child also might cause trauma. The woman would have live with the fact that she let her own fetus be killed and forever wondering what the child would have been like if she had carried the baby to term.
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When you presume to know the mind of a pregnant woman and what she is going through you diminish your own arguments.

The fact remains that deciding to abort an embryo (in a clinically safe procedure) before it really makes its presence known is a much easier decision for a woman to make than to carry a pregnancy to full term then give the baby up for adoption.
 
acbytesla said:
All of the following are human
  • my cancerous tumor
  • a fetus
  • my hair
  • my skin cells
  • my toenails
  • my semen

But none of these things are

  • babies
  • infants
  • children
  • human beings
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but one(the fetus) is developing into a

  • babies
  • infants
  • children
  • human beings
 
psionl0 said:
When you presume to know the mind of a pregnant woman and what she is going through you diminish your own arguments.
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Hmm . . .

psionl0 said:
The fact remains that deciding to abort an embryo (in a clinically safe procedure) before it really makes its presence known is a much easier decision for a woman to make than to carry a pregnancy to full term then give the baby up for adoption.
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Now who is presuming to know the mind of a pregnant woman?
 
Warp12 said:
The worst part is, all of these women getting pregnant by just drinking the water. Damn fetus, trying to barge in there and make itself at home. :rolleyes:
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Have you put me on ignore?

Bump for Warp12

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Agreed. Do not conflate "held accountable" with the concept of "personal accountability".

Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
What’s the difference in the case I mentioned? I don’t get that at all.
 
psionl0 said:
The fact remains that deciding to abort an embryo (in a clinically safe procedure) before it really makes its presence known is a much easier decision for a woman to make than to carry a pregnancy to full term then give the baby up for adoption.
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As someone else here put it, to paraphrase, they would rather have an abortion than to see someone else raise it, as it would be too hard on them to know that someone else raised their baby.
 
Warp12 said:
The worst part is, all of these women getting pregnant by just drinking the water. Damn fetus, trying to barge in there and make itself at home. :rolleyes:
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Yes, these women had sex.

Damn sluts.

They should have kept their legs together :rolleyes:
 
Blank said:
Just checking where are we at here.. Do you agree that a homeless persons right to live would outweight any other persons right to private property in cases like the extreme cold spell at Texas last year? Or in any northern state?

In other words, would you agree that not allowing a homeless or anyone crash under your roof in these cases even without permission is ok when there might be life threatening circumstances?

A bit of a tortured comparison, but I've noticed pro-lifers usually be a bit more rabid on the "stand your ground" issues and be pretty gun-ho, when it comes to private property.
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The rabid right does not have a consistent set of beliefs. They just have a mish mash of Victorian ideals. They would happily oppose abortion ("right to life") while supporting capital punishment and if you pointed out their inconsistency they would give you a blank stare.

That said, your analogy does not quite hold. I believe that the state has a duty to provide for people who are unable to provide for themselves but they can't impose that duty on any one individual. The difference is that there is no providing for a foetus if the carrier is not willing to do so (other than in the latest stages of pregnancy).
 
Warp12 said:
The worst part is, all of these women getting pregnant by just drinking the water. Damn fetus, trying to barge in there and make itself at home. :rolleyes:
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Do you ever intend to have anything actually useful to contribute, or are your "contributions" going to continue to be limited to stupid remarks, unevidenced assertions, poutrage, harassment of people who don't agree with you, and making dumb-arsed comments that only appear clever or funny to you?
 
Paul2 said:
Have you put me on ignore?

Bump for Warp12

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Agreed. Do not conflate "held accountable" with the concept of "personal accountability".

Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
What’s the difference in the case I mentioned? I don’t get that at all.
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No, I don't have you on ignore. I am just not interested in your question. I believe strongly in personal accountability. I've already replied to your given example, and what that would mean in that case, and you didn't seem to dispute my reply. I am done with the line of questioning.
 
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