Texas bans abortion.

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Again if a human in a coma had the brain activity of a 6 week old fetalembryogote we wouldn't have to pretend whether or not any of this is a hard question, he'd already be in the ground and we'd be making awkward small talk around covered hot dishes at the post-funeral get together and nay would there be a person philosophically handwringing in sight.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Again if a human in a coma had the brain activity of a 6 week old fetalembryogote we wouldn't have to pretend whether or not any of this is a hard question, he'd already be in the ground and we'd be making awkward small talk around covered hot dishes at the post-funeral get together and nay would there be a person philosophically handwringing in sight.
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Who's "we"? Does Terri Schiavo ring a bell? There are people --a sizeable percentage of the population-- who would keep someone alive on machines even if the entire brain was completely removed. Because of the sacredness of life, God swill, etc etc.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Who's "we"? Does Terri Schiavo ring a bell? There are people --a sizeable percentage of the population-- who would keep someone alive on machines even if the entire brain was completely removed. Because of the sacredness of life, God swill, etc etc.
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That was a weird one off case that just popped into the public conscious at he one points in history we we got a little too bored, not the arguably the biggest social rift in the country based around thousands of cases.

"When you die" is a question, but nowhere near "When you do start to live (or whatever)" that we pretend the abortion debate is really about.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again if a human in a coma had the brain activity of a 6 week old fetalembryogote we wouldn't have to pretend whether or not any of this is a hard question, he'd already be in the ground and we'd be making awkward small talk around covered hot dishes at the post-funeral get together and nay would there be a person philosophically handwringing in sight.
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Then again...

If we reasonably expected that this comatose person might somehow recover full brain activity in a matter of months, we probably wouldn't be considering pulling the plug.
 
Warp12 said:
Then again...

If we reasonably expected that this comatose person might somehow recover full brain activity in a matter of months, we probably wouldn't be considering pulling the plug.
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Joe's post was a hypothetical and it basically showed that a 6 week old fetalembryogote was not a sentient functioning human being.

What a fetalembryogote will become is different than what it is.
 
acbytesla said:
What a fetalembryogote will become is different than what it is.
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Yep. Which is why if it was about "Da potential to becaome a hooman!" like we're being told it is the people in question would be trying to save ejaculations and menstruations and they aren't.

Crap where does it end? Save the carbon atoms!

This anti-choicers will dismiss this as the only word they know in arguments, a "strawman" but that's no more or less arbitrary than a 6 week old cell clump.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again if a human in a coma had the brain activity of a 6 week old fetalembryogote we wouldn't have to pretend whether or not any of this is a hard question, he'd already be in the ground and we'd be making awkward small talk around covered hot dishes at the post-funeral get together and nay would there be a person philosophically handwringing in sight.
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Warp12 said:
Then again...

If we reasonably expected that this comatose person might somehow recover full brain activity in a matter of months, we probably wouldn't be considering pulling the plug.
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JoeMorgue said:
Yep. Which is why if it was about "Da potential to becaome a hooman!" like we're being told it is the people in question would be trying to save ejaculations and menstruations and they aren't.
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You made it about "brain activity". I just commented on what I thought to be a faulty argument. Comparing a 6-week old embryo to "ejaculations and menstruations" is equally faulty. Do you also make the same comparison at 23 weeks?
 
acbytesla said:
Psion's insistence that we label a fetus, zygote, embryo etc a "human being." Is a deliberate attempt to sneak language into the discussion that is inherently problematic to the pro-choice position. I'm confident that he knows this.

Human beings have rights. Embryos, zygotes and fetuses etc up until the third trimester don't. And their rights are limited even then.

This is an attempt to win an argument based on semantics.

Sorry, Psion it's not that simple.
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and you are surprised by this!
 
I like how some seem to find every way and word to avoid calling an embryo or fetus "human", but lament the use of "problematic language". :rolleyes:
 
Warp12 said:
I like how some seem to find every way and word to avoid calling an embryo or fetus "human", but lament the use of "problematic language". :rolleyes:
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I have no issue at all referring to them as "human." I do however object to the label as human being. That denotes a conscious and sentient "being."

This, it is not.
 
Warp12 said:
I like how some seem to find every way and word to avoid calling an embryo or fetus "human", but lament the use of "problematic language". :rolleyes:
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Oh come now. Language is at the heart of all discussions.

How we define and label the terms allows an honest debate. Problematic language should be avoided. How many times have I heard superstitious god believers ask questions such as "how was man "created?" Never mind that the word "created" bakes a conclusion into the discussion before the creation is proven. Like the use of the word "creation," the use of the term "human being" is an attempt to claim something without proof and through language alone.

Not that you would attempt to do that.:rolleyes:
 
This is going to lead to the biggest case of mass disobdience to a unpopular law we have seen since Prohibition.
 
Warp12 said:
Then again...

If we reasonably expected that this comatose person might somehow recover full brain activity in a matter of months, we probably wouldn't be considering pulling the plug.
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But this person will never recover unless we plug them into someone's body full time for seven to nine months to use that person's body in ways that can be dangerous and even life threatening, even though it normally works well.

And you're the only one who can save him. Are you ok with the Judge ordering them to hook you up for the duration? Are you ok with the judge ordering anyone to be hooked up for the duration?
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
But this person will never recover unless we plug them into someone's body full time for seven to nine months to use that person's body in ways that can be dangerous and even life threatening, even though it normally works well.

And you're the only one who can save him. Are you ok with the Judge ordering them to hook you up for the duration? Are you ok with the judge ordering anyone to be hooked up for the duration?
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If I am the one who put him in such a predicament, sure. I'll step up. I would consider it a moral obligation to do so.
 
Warp12 said:
If I am the one who put him in such a predicament, sure. I'll step up. I would consider it a moral obligation to do so.
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I would too.

But are you wiling to have your choice, or your family member's choice, or you friends choice taken away and be ordered to do it no matter what? Are we going to let the courts decide morality? And "step(ping) up" implies you made a choice.
 
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JimOfAllTrades said:
But are you wiling to have your choice, or your family member's choice, or you friends choice taken away and be ordered to do it no matter what? Are we going to let the courts decide morality? And "step(ping) up" implies you made a choice.
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Let's cut to the chase. Yes, there are cases of incest and rape. But that is not the largest demographic for abortion. If you decide to have sex, you have made a choice. Even if using birth control, you know that there is a chance that you may become pregnant.

I don't believe in virgin births, do you? Of course not. I do believe though, that personal accountability is important...and that seems to be a lost concept with some people (not saying you).

Now, all of that being said, I don't support this TX law. Because, I understand the world isn't perfect. And quite simply, 6 weeks is too early for many women to even know they are pregnant.
 
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