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Terrorist attack stopped in Melbourne

Argumemnon said:
Why is this thread becoming yet another gun thread?
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Because I started it with exactly that intent.

Argumemnon said:
Still sounds like the discussion should be about the attempt and the way he was found out and stopped, not gun laws in Australia and how they relate to those in the US as the main topic.
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Your'e quite welcome to start that thread if you wish.
 
arthwollipot said:
Let's say that he was trying to get one illegally. How quickly would he have been able to succeed in America?
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What state and city?
Interstate?
Buying via straw purchase from an FFL holder?
Private sale?
Just buying on the street at midnight?
Stealing one from someone else?

Either in a few days, or never, depending.

My experience with illegal purchases of prohibited items is limited to zero with no rim.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
We have a similar problem in the UK with regards to there being no solid way to determine how many illegal firearms there are out on the streets. The thing is, if someone knows where to ask, they can easily buy a firearm here, and I mean easily.
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Hopefully those caught selling guns illegally are dealt with harshly.

I wish that were the case here, but it seems often it is not.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
We have a similar problem in the UK with regards to there being no solid way to determine how many illegal firearms there are out on the streets. The thing is, if someone knows where to ask, they can easily buy a firearm here, and I mean easily.
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No they can't it's difficult to obtain firearms in the UK.
That's why criminals have to resort to buying antique and deactivated weapons that have been reactivated, someone was just sent to jail for doing just that.

Guns in the UK are usually 'rented' and pass through a lot of hands, there aren't that many.
 
arthwollipot said:
The man could not obtain a gun. Think about that for just a moment.
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Its a lesson alright, and its an even bigger lesson when you consider that guns are freely available in Australia to those who can demonstrate that they are a fit and proper person to be allowed to own one.

But unfortunately, it is a lesson that will find deaf ears and closed minds on the other side of the Pacific, because "I gotta hav' muh guns" is a more important freedom than the freedom of innocent people to go about their business without getting massacred.
 
Earlier, Deputy Commissioner Shane Patton said they believed Mr Ali was trying to get an automatic rifle to "shoot and kill as many people as he could" around Federation Square, in Melbourne's CBD, during New Year's Eve celebrations.
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Big difference between "a gun" vs a fully automatic rifle. Obtaining one would not be an easy task in the US.

Big. Difference. Now let's start the thread over and discuss it honestly.
 
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mgidm86 said:
Big difference between "a gun" vs a fully automatic rifle. Obtaining one would not be an easy task in the US.

Big. Difference. Now let's start the thread over and discuss it honestly.
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Automatic rifle vs semi-automatic rifle fitted with a bump stock

Yes, technically they are different, yes legally, they are different.

However, as the bullets from whichever gun is used, rip into the heads, flesh and bodies of the victims, neither they nor their loved ones will care a jot about the legal and technical differences.

Its the same old story every time; the anti gun control advocates will always try to stall and stifle the conversation by using confusion and obfuscation of the issues with trivia, technicalities and legal minutiae with a view to distract and divert attention away from the REAL issue... tens thousands of innocent men, women and children killed with guns every year.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
No they can't it's difficult to obtain firearms in the UK.
That's why criminals have to resort to buying antique and deactivated weapons that have been reactivated, someone was just sent to jail for doing just that.

Guns in the UK are usually 'rented' and pass through a lot of hands, there aren't that many.
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You must live under a rock then, mate. In the North-West alone, there are countless gangs and countless more shootings, most of which are not reported in the papers at all. The Matrix here in Liverpool is fighting an ongoing battle with guns and gangs. Guns are not hard to obtain whatsoever. There are people living within a stone's-throw of my house who have either been convicted or are waiting to be convicted for firearms possession or usage.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/all-about/gun-crime

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/already-been-more-shooting-incidents-12536451

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/fears-liverpool-city-gun-crime-13300452

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-41002165

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rseyside-most-criminally-used-firearm-britain

There's been several shootings in recent weeks, all less than 30 minutes away from where I live in Aigburth.

This talk about only older guns being borrowed and available is pure nonsense, tbh. People really don't realize what these gangs are even up to, because they only read about it in the press. There are many firearms out there, trust me. If a kid wants to buy a gun here, they can do it without much effort at all.

As of 16 August, there had been 60 firearms incidents resulting in three deaths and 26 injuries in Merseyside in 2017. That compares with 87 incidents in the whole of 2016, two of which were fatal and 34 of which caused injury.

Nationwide figures released by the Office for National Statistics in April showed a 13% increase in gun crime to 5,864 incidents, apparently driven by higher criminal use of handguns and shotguns.
 
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smartcooky said:
Its the same old story every time; the anti gun control advocates will always try to stall and stifle the conversation by using confusion and obfuscation of the issues with trivia, technicalities and legal minutiae with a view to distract and divert attention away from the REAL issue... tens thousands of innocent men, women and children killed with guns every year.
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I believe the question was -

arthwollipot said:
Let's say that he was trying to get one illegally. How quickly would he have been able to succeed in America?
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- and the consensus answer to that is "It depends."

I know you folk from other countries would like to believe we have automatic weapon kiosks conveniently located in our supermarkets, or we pluck them from the Assault Trees which grow wild in our suburbs but alas, I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

To summarize: Legally obtaining a fully automatic firearm? Very difficult. Not impossible, but very difficult.

Illegally obtaining fully automatic firearm? Who do you know and how much cash you got? Same as anywhere else on the ******* planet.

No stalling, no confusion, no obfuscation. It is what it is.

To be fair, recently here in gun-hating California one of our gun-hating State Senators would have no problem hooking you up with one, if he hadn't been caught. Maybe he has a colleague or two still flying under the FBI's radar.
 
Just to put a cap on this.

Federation Square New Year's Eve terror plotter Ali Khalif Shire Ali sentenced to 10 years' jail

A man who planned a New Year's Eve terrorist attack in Melbourne's Federation Square three years ago has been sentenced to 10 years in prison.

Ali Khalif Shire Ali, 23, pleaded guilty in May last year to one charge of preparing a terrorist attack.

Police thwarted the plans, arresting him in November 2017 after a covert operation lasting a number of months.

The court heard Ali had originally planned to use a truck in the attack, but his driver's licence was cancelled.

He also contemplated knife attacks and making a bomb before deciding to buy an automatic weapon.
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