TERFs crash London Pride

kellyb said:
Do you think the parents were lying? Unless they were flat-out lying, the science is solid. And that sort of recruitment is standard now when looking at subgroups.

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If Littman picked out her respondents exclusively from sources with a demonstrated bias then the science is not solid.

And that's what she did.

If she did that, not because she failed to understand the inherent flaws in her research study, but rather because she was trying to get a specific result, then her study is not only not science. It is junk intended for propaganda.

I'll leave it to you do decide which it is, but it does appear from her other activities that she has rather specific beliefs and attitudes which characterize her work.
 
kellyb said:
How in god's name could a parent miss a 5 year old insisting that they were the other gender for years and years?
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I suspect that those are not the parents who are complain about 'sudden onset'.

Transgendered kids do exist. They are unmistakable. If you, like, me, do believe the parental reports of kids who turn 4, 5, or 6/7 and start saying and never stop saying they are the other gender, how can you disbelieve the ones who say their kid was gender typical and never expressed any gender ambiguity before age 14?

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These could easily be parents who either never noticed their child's behavior, didn't want to, or had a child who was reluctant to share their issues, for whatever reason.

Just because it appeared like 'sudden onset' to the parents doesn't mean that it was to their child.

It ha been pointed out to you that Littman's study did not involve interviewing any of the children. Why would you think such a study reflected any of the children's views or experiences?
 
kellyb said:
Four thousand percent increase.
And you think bulldykes are "being dismissed" as mere lesbians if they're not self-ID-ing as transmen?

Your mentality IS the mainstream now.
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No. We think lesbians are still lesbians. No idea where you keep getting this.

To quote Porpoise:

Porpoise of Life said:
But that's because they ARE butch lesbians, and not transmen. They just can't imagine that others who were classified as butch lesbians actually feel they're men.

Nobody is trying to 'poach away' members of the butch lesbian subculture by turning them trans and forcing hormones on them.
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Rolfe said:
Whether or not it's the case that anyone can say "I feel like a man" and immediately get a prescription, there's no doubt at all that politicians are working to bring in legislation by which all a man has to do is say "I feel like a woman" to gain comprehensive no-restrictions access to women's changing rooms, sleeping accommodation and sports competitions. No prescriptions at all required. Or even a razor.
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You're pushing the fear button really hard, but is there any evidence this would actually become a problem?
 
kellyb said:
There is evidence, but it's not strong enough to qualify as "proof".

There's the 4 thousand percent increase in females self-identifying as transmen, and you can look at reports of how many/most of these women self-identified recently, like this:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dp54xa/how-trans-men-deal-with-their-shifting-sexuality-129
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The thrust of that article is that trans-men often change from being primarily attracted to women to being primarily attracted to men as a result of hormone (testosterone) therapy. A surprising outcome and probably worthy of a lot more research, but the anecdotes are pretty poor evidence of what you're claiming if only because that's not what the article was exploring and therefore the questions were not asked, and also because at least one of those anecdotes directly contradicts your conclusion:

"From when I was two or three years old, all I knew was that I liked girls and that I was a boy," says Graf. "But within I would say about a year on testosterone, I started looking at guys in the street thinking, he's quite cute, which is obviously weird because I'd never ever looked at them before.
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This guy may have identified as a lesbian, but he also says he identified as a boy from a very early age. For him, at least, there is way more to the story than a single line lifted out of context suggests.

Also remember that this whole line comes from Rolfe's suggestion that normal butch-lesbian women are being rushed into transitioning into trans-men because that's the stylish and politically correct thing to do these days, and that they would really be happier as butch-lesbians which is completely natural, as opposed to being lured into a tragic self-mutilation. It's equally plausable that *if* there are fewer butch-lesbians today because some of them transition, that it's because the trans option is better (more medically advanced) today than it was in decades past. It's just as likely to be a reflection of better options being available than because people are being pressured or rushed into something bad.

kellyb said:
...and while we don't yet know how many among the 4 thousand percent increase will eventually regret it and detransition, it's not "spotting a unicorn" style rare.
http://guideonragingstars.tumblr.co...male-detransition-and-reidentification-survey
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It's not impossible to find people who regret transgender surgery. At the same time, the existence of these people is not in and of itself proof that people are being rushed or pressured into trans surgery, which is where this line of discussion began.
 
quadraginta said:
There's no question they are afraid it will.

That's why they are importing our fundamentalist conservative right-wingnuts and their arguments. The rhetoric fits right in with their POV.
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The irony is that if it were to happen, we still have laws on the books to deal with it. Sexual harassment and assault are still illegal no mater what gender one claims to be. Just because a person has access to a locker room or a bathroom doesn't mean they can do whatever they want when they get in there.
 
Rolfe said:
Whether or not it's the case that anyone can say "I feel like a man" and immediately get a prescription, there's no doubt at all that politicians are working to bring in legislation by which all a man has to do is say "I feel like a woman" to gain comprehensive no-restrictions access to women's changing rooms, sleeping accommodation and sports competitions. No prescriptions at all required. Or even a razor.
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So there are no politicians working against this? They are all for it?

What planet do you live on?
 
Mmmmkay, so...

Children are born with so called "defects" every single day. Cleft palates, missing limbs, Downs syndrome, autism, conjoined twins, homosexuals, sociopaths, missing brains, deformed and/or malfunctioning vital organs. This is beyond debate. These are facts.

But the idea that some children are born the wrong gender? That does just not happen, because nature/biology/evolution does not make that kind of mistake?

That's pretty much what some in this thread are arguing, right? And you honestly don't see how absurd that is? Wow.
 
I'm very surprised if people know a few lesbians that they think many lesbians would want to be a man if they were offered the chance. The one thing they like is women. And that means being a woman themselves.

Whether "butch" or any other silly categorisation that is pretty much universal.

And "butch" does not mean masculine, it's sad that it still seems to be a common misconception.
 
Mycroft said:
It's not impossible to find people who regret transgender surgery. At the same time, the existence of these people is not in and of itself proof that people are being rushed or pressured into trans surgery, which is where this line of discussion began.
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I don't think people are being rushed or pressured, but I do think it's far more likely than not that a sub-group of people (usually teens) who experience dysphoria developed it via social contagion, akin to bulimia and body dysmorphic disorder.
 
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