TERFs crash London Pride

No place in the UK Labour Party for people who think men can't be women: Zero tolerance for members who think men don't belong on women-only shortlists.

In an interview with BuzzFeed News, Austin-Behan — who in 2016 also became Britain's first out gay lord mayor — said party members who campaign against trans women being fully accepted as women should no longer be allowed in the party.

The former Labour councillor said the party should take a “zero tolerance” stance on anti-trans activists, following hundreds of its members reportedly campaigning against the inclusion of trans women in women-only shortlists.

“It goes against the values of what the Labour party is,” said Austin-Behan. “Because it’s about equality, diversity, and inclusion and the only way you’re going to tackle that is if we’re all on board.”

“I think there needs to be a lot of questions about their integrity,” he said of those found to be signing petitions or otherwise publicly opposing trans rights. “I completely disagree with the whole thing — the [opposition to] shortlists that it has to be what you were at birth. That’s utter rubbish. If people are trans women, then they are women.”

People Who Oppose Trans Rights Have No Place In Labour, Says The First LGBT Mayoral Adviser
 
No place in the UK Labour Party for people who think men can't be women: Zero tolerance for members who think men don't belong on women-only shortlists.



People Who Oppose Trans Rights Have No Place In Labour, Says The First LGBT Mayoral Adviser

Thanks for the context, that helps me understand her article. Strange that she leaves rather than campaigns and fights for what she believes in but each to their own.

Quite sincere question how many trans women have been put up as a candidate on women only list for labour MPs?
 
I’m a little puzzled how putting up a plaque to someone is ‘erasing’ them.

TBH, I'm more than a little puzzled that you don't get it.

It's not erasing her. It's erasing the fact that she was a lesbian, which what she was famous for being.

The word "lesbian" has been replaced with "gender-nonconforming'.

Question: What's wrong with using the word 'lesbian' to describe a lesbian?

Possible Answer: Transwomen (men) feel excluded by not being able to be lesbians themselves and because lesbians (homosexual women) don't find them (men) sexually attractive = transphobia.
 
I wasn't talking about violence. Saying "**** you" (which is essentially what that tweet said) doesn't have anything to do with it. Seriously.

Clenched fists. Penis as a lethal weapon. Forced oral sex (rape). 'TERF' slur. It's interesting that you find these things innocuous.

What do you think of this: "Trannies can choke on my man dick"?

Transphobic? Or just saying "**** you"?



LOL!

Here is the allegedly far-right rhetoric Arcade is referring to:

"It instructive that a thread about lesbians fighting to defend their hard-won rights and recognition is now a thread about men's rights.

Gender-critical feminists are right now standing up for boys by challenging the dangerous transgender ideology that justifies telling vulnerable young boys that they have been born in the wrong body and will require medical intervention and, later, physical mutilation (e.g. castration) in order to align their so-called "gender" with their "real" sex.

Feminists (e.g Andrea Dworkin) have been pioneers in exposing and challenging child sexual abuse.
"

In what way is that comparable to "far-right rhetoric"?

Note that in this post you demonstrate an incredible ignorance here that's matched by your hysterical hostility towards what you call "dangerous transgender ideology".

Transgender ideology is harming children, setting them up for lifelong drug dependency, irreversible physical mutilation and even sterility. It not far-rightwing to be concerned about children's welfare

In reality psychologists (or at least the vast majority of them) do not pressure gender nonconforming boys into believing that they are "born in the wrong body" or that they will need SRS.

Again this is really comparable to those that say education children at school about homo/bisexuality is really tantamount to "making children gay" and is "indoctrinating them into homosexuality".

Was Margaret Thatcher far right? Maybe.

There is no scientific evidence that transchildren even exist. Information (and misinformation) on the internet plays a much bigger role than psychologists in persuading confused parents that their son, for example, who likes wearing a pink tutu isn't just a boy who likes wearing a pink tutu, he's a girl, he's TRANSGENDER!

Promoting such rubbish in schools is dangerous to children's welfare.


Arcade22's definition of the word 'woman':

A woman is someone who displays a physical appearance and mannerism that's associated with the female sex.

Biological sex does not determine mannerisms.

It's amazing that you can't see how this definition erases what women actually are: Adult human females, i.e. belonging to the sex that can grow babies. Women are not performances. They are neither their (gender-stereotypical) mannerisms nor their (gender-stereotypical?) appearance.

Transphobia is fear and/or hatred towards transsexual individuals.

How does one distinguish transphobia from homophobia?




No, lesbians don't have penises. Lesbians aren't sexually aroused by penises. Lesbians are homosexual women.



~~~~~

So, in summary, you cannot provided any examples of JihadJane's allegedly far-right rhetoric.
 
TBH, I'm more than a little puzzled that you don't get it.

It's not erasing her. It's erasing the fact that she was a lesbian, which what she was famous for being.

The word "lesbian" has been replaced with "gender-nonconforming'.

Question: What's wrong with using the word 'lesbian' to describe a lesbian?

Possible Answer: Transwomen (men) feel excluded by not being able to be lesbians themselves and because lesbians (homosexual women) don't find them (men) sexually attractive = transphobia.

Probably because, if one knows the first thing about Anne Lister, simply saying "famous lesbian" (which is fairly obvious from the full wording on the plaque, anyway) reduces her to nothing more than her sexuality, which is misleading and insulting.
 
TBH, I'm more than a little puzzled that you don't get it.

It's not erasing her. It's erasing the fact that she was a lesbian, which what she was famous for being.

The word "lesbian" has been replaced with "gender-nonconforming'.

Question: What's wrong with using the word 'lesbian' to describe a lesbian?

Possible Answer: Transwomen (men) feel excluded by not being able to be lesbians themselves and because lesbians (homosexual women) don't find them (men) sexually attractive = transphobia.


Do you have information as to why such wording was on the plaque?
 
All this talk about evil entitled males trying to use corrupt PC culture to invade places they don't belong to abuse the folks who do, reminds me a lot of the kind of scaremongering about Muslims trying to establish shariah law and conquer the West by using PC as a weapon.
 
Probably because, if one knows the first thing about Anne Lister, simply saying "famous lesbian" (which is fairly obvious from the full wording on the plaque, anyway) reduces her to nothing more than her sexuality, which is misleading and insulting.

I'm 6 for one and half a dozen of t'other in this instance. I mean there is no attempt to hide her sexuality, the very plaque is about celebrating her strength of character and fighting the oppressive culture of her times in regards to those who did not conform to very limited cultural roles.

But then her being a lesbian is also important, perhaps they could have gone with "lesbian and non-gender conforming pioneer....".

I don't see any evidence that this was anything to do with erasing lesbians, and I've seen absolutely no evidence to date that anyone is trying to erase lesbians (beyond the usual suspects).
 
Biological sex does not determine mannerisms.

Sex is determined by ones genes. Genes, including those that determine sex, also can and do affect ones behavior to one degree or another. Thus ones "biological sex" is linked, sometimes strongly, with certain kinds of behavior.

It's amazing that you can't see how this definition erases what women actually are: Adult human females, i.e. belonging to the sex that can grow babies. Women are not performances. They are neither their (gender-stereotypical) mannerisms nor their (gender-stereotypical?) appearance.

The fact that others don't simply defer to your own private definition of woman is not tantamount to "erasing what women actually are". The only thing that's being "erased" is your overly inflexible and exclusionary definition which is perfectly fine.

No, lesbians don't have penises. Lesbians aren't sexually aroused by penises. Lesbians are homosexual women.

Yeah keep saying that mantra over and over again.
 
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Clenched fists. Penis as a lethal weapon. Forced oral sex (rape). 'TERF' slur. It's interesting that you find these things innocuous.

You're not even being grossly pedantic correctly; she said choke, not choke to death, so no, no 'lethal weapon' status on their penis. Incorrect.

Few people who aren't trans-exclusionary consider TERF to be a slur rather than a descriptive acronym, even if the R isn't always accurate, as we've already been over in this thread. The tweet would have the exact same spirit if they typed out "Radical feminists who argue that trans women aren't women and should not be allowed in women's spaces" instead of TERF. Correctness dependent on subjective opinion.

"Yeah, you can go choke on a bag of dicks" etc is universally understood as a general '**** off' insult. It's typically meant as 'you can do x for all I care' and more essentially 'I do not care what you think and it would be great if you stopped bothering me.' It does not even actually imply rape; "x can" isn't an imperative or a threat, it denotes that something is possible, allowed or invited. "Participants can email me for more details" is about something participants are invited do, not about something I am going to do to participants. Grammatically incorrect.

Fists posed to display knuckle tattoos don't usually imply violence beyond "look how tough I am to show people eight letters this way," as far as I know. They're not fightin' fists. But they are fists. Technically correct.
 
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Wait, what "hard-won rights"
?

Also isn't a sex short-list itself the sexist part?
 
...snip...

Also isn't a sex short-list itself the sexist part?

The idea is that it is acknowledged that there has been systematic bias against and a lack of opportunity for women to enter politics, especially as MPs. So yes you can view it in a simplistic manner and say it's "sexism", or you can view it as being a step to help redress the past (and obviously sometimes still current ) biases. Those that advocate for such measures state these are temporary measures.

I think both views have some merit.
 
You're not even being grossly pedantic correctly; she said choke, not choke to death, so no, no 'lethal weapon' status on their penis. Incorrect.

Sophistry. Strangling isn't always fatal either.

Children's toys and other objects often have choking hazard warnings on them. These warnings are there because choking kills. The labels say "Choking Hazard" not "Choking to Death Hazard". That's because most people (except, perhaps, people who think TERF isn't a slur and that women have penises ;)) know that choking (cutting off one's air supply) is often fatal.

Few people who aren't trans-exclusionary consider TERF to be a slur rather than a descriptive acronym, even if the R isn't always accurate, as we've already been over in this thread.

Racists also argue that terms like "Paki" are purely descriptive.

"Trans-exclusionary" is a propaganda term, not a neutral description of reality.

TERF is widely recognised as a slur, because that is what it is. It is not uncommonly prefixed with words like "Smash", "Kill", and "Shut down". Or as a prefix itself: "Die in a fire terf scum."


The tweet would have the exact same spirit if they typed out "Radical feminists who argue that trans women aren't women and should not be allowed in women's spaces" instead of TERF. Correctness dependent on subjective opinion.



The acronym TERF is propaganda, narcissistically pushing an aggressive, one-sided "men are women", "we're being excluded", "we're entitled to enter sex-protected spaces" opinion. It is normally uttered with a sneer.

When men enter women's sex-protected spaces, it is women and girls who end up being excluded from these spaces.

You can use the label "gender-critical feminists" if you don't want to be crudely abusive towards people who challenge your beliefs.


"Yeah, you can go choke on a bag of dicks" etc is universally understood as a general '**** off' insult. It's typically meant as 'you can do x for all I care' and more essentially 'I do not care what you think and it would be great if you stopped bothering me.' It does not even actually imply rape; "x can" isn't an imperative or a threat, it denotes that something is possible, allowed or invited. "Participants can email me for more details" is about something participants are invited do, not about something I am going to do to participants. Grammatically incorrect.

Fists posed to display knuckle tattoos don't usually imply violence beyond "look how tough I am to show people eight letters this way," as far as I know. They're not fightin' fists. But they are fists. Technically correct.

These fists punch TERFs.

It's interesting how seamlessly transactivist "women" have adopted the culture, language and behaviour of male violence and rape. It's almost as if they are actually unreconstructed, Twenty First Century men, despite outward appearances.

Non-consensual oral sex is rape.

A dictionary definition of 'choke' that is applicable to forcing an erect penis down someone's throat:

choke

verb (used with object)

to stop the breath of by squeezing or obstructing the windpipe; strangle; stifle.
 
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Sex is determined by ones genes. Genes, including those that determine sex, also can and do affect ones behavior to one degree or another. Thus ones "biological sex" is linked, sometimes strongly, with certain kinds of behavior.

Please provide some evidence that biology determines gender-stereotypical mannerisms.

The fact that others don't simply defer to your own private definition of woman is not tantamount to "erasing what women actually are". The only thing that's being "erased" is your overly inflexible and exclusionary definition which is perfectly fine.

LOL! A somewhat arrogant viewpoint! Defining the word "woman" with reference to their reproductive sex role isn't a "private definition". It's a public and universally accepted, scientific definition. Post-modern, gender-reinforcing wordplay, however, could (and should) more reasonably be considered a private definition! I'd have no problem with it if it was.



Yeah keep saying that mantra over and over again.

Saying that lesbians are homosexual women isn't a mantra. It's what the word lesbian actually means.

The burden of persuasion is on those arguing that these lesbian women can have penises.
 
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Do you have information as to why such wording was on the plaque?

“The wording was shaped by several open consultations held with York’s LGBT community between July 2017 and February 2018”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ked-for-not-calling-her-a-lesbian-anne-lister

I'm assuming the wording was influenced by transgender activist political ideology, which antithetical to the existence of lesbians as homosexual women.

A gender-nonconforming woman can be many things because it only means that you do not conform to societal expectations. It has nothing to do with sexuality.

“Anne Lister was, most definitely, gender-nonconforming all her life. She was also however, a lesbian. That is why she took vows with her girlfriend in that church, because they were in love with each other and wanted to express that same-sex love – the very definition of lesbianism.

“Don’t let them erase this iconic woman from our history. Anne Lister was a lesbian.”



Thanks for the context, that helps me understand her article. Strange that she leaves rather than campaigns and fights for what she believes in but each to their own.

Quite sincere question how many trans women have been put up as a candidate on women only list for labour MPs?

I don't know. All Labour's women-only shortlists are open to self-identifying transgender women, a category which includes people who are, in every respect, unaltered, biological men. A number of party members have been suspended for challenging this policy.
 
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“The wording was shaped by several open consultations held with York’s LGBT community between July 2017 and February 2018”

Yeah I see that, so it looks as if we don't have any information that it was chosen to erase lesbians or not from the public awareness. Be interesting to know if they were minuted meetings.
 
...snip...

The burden of persuasion is on those arguing that these lesbian women can have penises.

I'd rather leave it up to lesbians whether they want to have penises or not, I try to let people decide for themselves what they "are". As a for instance I know a lot of lesbians that have had sex with men, but I would not label them as bisexual I would accept that they still call themselves lesbians. I've known closeted lesbians, ones in a hetrosexual marriage who have regular sex with their husbands but still call themselves lesbians.

If a lesbian wants to have a penis, they can as far as I am concerned. Of course if another lesbian doesn't want to have sex with the lesbian with a penis they don't have to and its no one's business but theirs.

If any one of any gender/sex/nonconforming gender/oranyothelabel tries to force someone to have sex with them by any means they should be dealt with harshly, I do not give one iota what they label themselves or they label other people as that is a total irrelevance.

I have seen and heard too much over the decades of abuse of minorities of all kinds to have any truck with anyone who thinks any kind of abuse is acceptable - no matter what direction.
 

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