TERFs crash London Pride

Arcade22 said:
I should note that surveys have consistently shown that Swedish male youths report that they have experiences selling sex or sexual services either to the same degree as their female counterparts or even higher.

This alone shows that "male prostitution" isn't some completely negligible phenomenon. The problem here is that even those that are positive towards gay rights tend to keep the "gay community" at arms length, effectively making male prostitutes invisible. Note that wheter they themselves are homosexual or not their clients are mostly gay or bisexual men.
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I haven't heard of this but accepting it at face value:

What about for all age groups? What is the male-female split there?

and finally a reminder since people will forget:
Even if this is not a female privilege, it in no way means that JihadJane had a valid response to what I said by bringing up sex-work. It was a non-sequitur.
 
pharphis said:
Is there a concern for violent female predators who already have access to such shelters because they are biological females?
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Yes, violent women can be a problem for women's shelters. Shelters take security very seriously. Is this your argument for allowing men-pretending-to-be-women to have access to women's shelters as well?

After all, the majority of domestic violence is reciprocal which means that more often than not, said victims are ALSO perpetrators themselves.
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The studies this conclusion is based on used a much wider definition of violence than the kind of life-threatening violence that drives women to seek refuge in shelters.

Recipricol violence is also common in relationships between humans and grizzly bears. Guess which one most commonly comes off worse when the relationship gets violent?

Transwomen have male bones.


But ya it's always "men need to do their own activism for once" but it's also "feminism is for equality and if you're not feminist you're against equality" and when you ask if/when feminist organizations will help out you'll be told

1) "no whataboutism"
2) "we'll get to it after women's problems are solved"
3) "men don't have this problem" (see White Ribbon for an example of a feminist organization that misrepresents domestic violence as being solely male perpetration and almost entirely female victimhood aka the duluth model)
4) "why don't MRAs ever 'do anything' "

Of course, I don't think it's that "men" should campaign for mens' shelters, and "women" for womens' shelters. I think both sexes should do both. Sadly, almost no one cares about male victims and of the few who do, they receive little to 0 funding.

See:
1) Earl Silverman's suicide letter. NSFL
2) CAFE as an example of a successfully funded venture. We'll see if the government will pay attention after this but I'm skeptical given their history of lack of support.

Part of Earl's suicide note:



edit: I honestly find it disgusting when someone says "X group needs to do the lobbying for X's issues". It betrays a lack of compassion and also puts a focus on us other-ing one another.
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:v:

Women had no other choice than to organise themselves, as women, to protect women from male violence. It took women getting together in women-only groups even to recognize that domestic violence was a widespread, societal problem. That was the political reality, a reality that is maybe invisible to those who see no difference between the political positions of men and women in society.

Why don't men care about male victims? Feminists, by definition, lobby on issues that affect women. Men have achieved a lot in the world, they even went to the Moon, so surely they can organise themselves to look after themselves without women's help.
 
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pharphis said:
Who should pay for this?
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Who paid freed slaves?




Scientists decide what a "women-only space" is? Since when?
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Since they learned to distinguish between female adult humans and male adult humans.


Enlighten me
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Ask the pope, a Freemason, an imam or a rabbi.



I think women are less paranoid and have been brought up being taught that such spaces shouldn't even exist. I think men might even be more welcoming in such situations (inviting the other sex into their spaces) in general but I'm not sure where these spaces are other than bathrooms.
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See above.

Women-only spaces, with no men in them, can be pure bliss for women.



"Friday's experiences"? Not sure what this means.
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https://manfridayuk.org/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...protest-transphobic-lgbt-rights-a8374651.html


fair enough




What does it tell you?
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It tells me you don't hear women talking about their experiences of being women.
 
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sadhatter said:
Who are you to tell people who they are allowed to be attracted to?

Do I get to call you a bigot for not wanting to bang me? I do a damn fine drag and it would put me out to know it wasn't passing enough.
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It all depends on the exact reasons stated. And here it isn't about attraction because if it depending on things like history that you can only know after indepth getting to know them.

But how would you view someone who refused to be with anyone who had been with a black person because they were not "attracted" to them?
 
ponderingturtle said:
It all depends on the exact reasons stated. And here it isn't about attraction because if it depending on things like history that you can only know after indepth getting to know them.

But how would you view someone who refused to be with anyone who had been with a black person because they were not "attracted" to them?
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You avoided the question.

What gives you the right to tell people who they can and can't ****?

You have one logical answer and it isn't going to make you look very good.
 
sadhatter said:
You avoided the question.

What gives you the right to tell people who they can and can't ****?

You have one logical answer and it isn't going to make you look very good.
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I can't, but I can judge you for it like I would judge someone refusing to sleep with anyone who had slept with a black person.
 
pharphis said:
I haven't heard of this but accepting it at face value:

What about for all age groups? What is the male-female split there?
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I have no idea. At least the only large scale studies I've seen in Sweden have revolved around youths and young adults.

The different studies presented in the See me report confirm that both young males and young females have experience of sex in return for some form of payment. Of the students in Year 3 of further education, 1.7 percent of males and 1.2 percent of females reported having at some point provided sexual services in return for payment of some kind. These figures represent only marginal changes in relation to the findings of the 2004 study.

In a questionnaire survey conducted by the Board itself among young people aged between 16 and 25 years of age, 1.7 percent of both males and females reported that they had accepted some form of payment for sex. However, the experiences of municipal prostitution units in Gothenburg, Malmö and Stockholm, as well as those of a number of other municipal service providers (social services and youth clinics), indicate few contacts with youths who sell sex, particularly young males
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https://www.mucf.se/sites/default/files/publikationer_uploads/see-me.pdf
 
It's Fox News, so be warned, but I just saw this story:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...male-to-get-cheaper-car-insurance-report.html

A Canadian man legally changed his gender to female so he could take advantage of better car insurance rates offered to women and save up nearly $1,100 Canadian Dollars, a report said.

“It was pretty simple,” David told the outlet about the process of legally changing his gender. “I just basically asked for it and told them that I identify as a woman, or I’d like to identify as a woman, and he wrote me the letter I wanted.”

After submitting all the documentation, just weeks later, David was legally a female and was subjected to lower premium rates for the insurance. “I was quite shocked, but I was also relieved,” he said. “I felt like I beat the system. I felt like I won.”
 
I feel like that's more an indictment of maintaining gender based pricing policies than of some guy intentionally gaming the system.
 
JihadJane said:
Yes, violent women can be a problem for women's shelters. Shelters take security very seriously. Is this your argument for allowing men-pretending-to-be-women to have access to women's shelters as well?



The studies this conclusion is based on used a much wider definition of violence than the kind of life-threatening violence that drives women to seek refuge in shelters.

Recipricol violence is also common in relationships between humans and grizzly bears. Guess which one most commonly comes off worse when the relationship gets violent?

Transwomen have male bones.





:v:

Women had no other choice than to organise themselves, as women, to protect women from male violence. It took women getting together in women-only groups even to recognize that domestic violence was a widespread, societal problem. That was the political reality, a reality that is maybe invisible to those who see no difference between the political positions of men and women in society.

Why don't men care about male victims? Feminists, by definition, lobby on issues that affect women. Men have achieved a lot in the world, they even went to the Moon, so surely they can organise themselves to look after themselves without women's help.
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Sad display of lack of compassion.

What if I told you that society as a whole takes men's problems less seriously, and therefore we need more than just men to fight on behalf of men's issues for real change to take place? (despite the "patriarchy"). Why do both men and women care about women and girls, but largely neither men nor women care about men and boys?

Do you also think that only LGBT folk should fight on behalf of LGBT folk? Or more specifically, gays fighting for gays, lesbians for lesbians, and so on... pretty splintered groups that will all engage in othering.

Have you ever seen lesbians or gays in feminist spaces asking for help and empathy and brought out the violin and told them to do ti themselves?
 
pharphis said:
Sad display of lack of compassion.
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It's sadly typical, that's for sure. It's not just dismissive of human suffering but incredibly aggressively dismissive.


ETA:

Do you also think that only LGBT folk should fight on behalf of LGBT folk? Or more specifically, gays fighting for gays, lesbians for lesbians, and so on... pretty splintered groups that will all engage in othering.
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I guess I shouldn't have gone to the capital steps to Add The Words in my state during protests nor my daughter (because she's cis/straight) either. Screw those guys, they're on their own.
 
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Not everything is a goddamn victim ranking contest. X group can complain about things that effect X group without Y group reminding them that they have it worse.
 
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