Merged Telepathy test: which number did I write?
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AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
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It's all a meaningless game anyway. Nothing to be upset about.
Edit: Oh, you think anyone took your "telepathy test" seriously?
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Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
It what way does the new test differ from the old one? They're both pointless and meaningless.
It's all a meaningless game anyway. Nothing to be upset about.
Edit: Oh, you think anyone took your "telepathy test" seriously?
Well, for exemple, Ashles, who has written 8,723 posts on this forum, said:
(thank you again, Ashles)
AdMan
Penultimate Amazing
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You're serious? Look up sarcasm.
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The times are different (the first test was done about a year ago); in my second test, I mention that there is a first one (and give the link); the random number generator is different; in the second test, I also give a MD5 hash (and not in the opening post of the first test, the two MD5 hashes are obviously different), I explain the motivation...
If you don't give a fair and honest chance to other points of view, there is a risk of blocking any future evolution (especially if you attack an individual who is somewhat weak and isolated). I am afraid this might be some kind of censorship actually.
Well, AdMan, I do not want to offend anyone, but his image (avatar) is less bizarre than yours
.Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
None of the differences make the test any less pointless and meaningless.
You were given a fair and honest chance to justify and defend your point of view last time and will be again this time. The first thing you need to do is attempt to clearly state your claim, and the second is to understand what constitutes a meaningful test of it.
Let's start with step one: what is your claim? It seems to be that you can communicate with the posters on this board telepathically, enabling them to know which of four numbers you wrote down at some point in the past. Is that it? If so, we can begin to formulate an objective test protocol for it. Your current one won't do because, as has been explained to you, you can simply choose the right hash coded file after the guesses have been made.
You were given a fair and honest chance to justify and defend your point of view last time and will be again this time. The first thing you need to do is attempt to clearly state your claim, and the second is to understand what constitutes a meaningful test of it.
Let's start with step one: what is your claim? It seems to be that you can communicate with the posters on this board telepathically, enabling them to know which of four numbers you wrote down at some point in the past. Is that it? If so, we can begin to formulate an objective test protocol for it. Your current one won't do because, as has been explained to you, you can simply choose the right hash coded file after the guesses have been made.
AdMan
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Well, AdMan, I do not want to offend anyone, but his image (avatar) is less bizarre than yours
And I don't want to offend you, but you didn't understand his post.
I'm out of here.
ETA: 75. Did I win?
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"Let's start with step one: what is your claim? It seems to be that you can communicate with the posters on this board telepathically, enabling them to know which of four numbers you wrote down at some point in the past. Is that it?"
I think this is quite correct (although I regard the evidence so far as somewhat insufficient), I think that you have stated it very well.
"If so, we can begin to formulate an objective test protocol for it. Your current one won't do because, as has been explained to you, you can simply choose the right hash coded file after the guesses have been made."
No, no, I think (although I am not an expert) that would be very difficult, to create a complicated sentence (containing, for exemple, the sentence "the number is 5") whose hash would be equal to a pre-given hash. You can try it, if you want, but I think you are unlikely to succeed. I have other things to do than to play extremely complicated cryptography games, with my limited computer resources.
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
To be fair, I think he is now, and will be, honest about the chosen number and the hash code. Where the issues will occur is when he starts adding his "credibility rating (CR)" to the answers, and discarding the ones that do not match the chosen number based on arbitrary and fluctuating standards. This is pretty much what happened the last time this was done.
Michel H, do you plan to filter the answers you are given here before comparing them to your chosen number?
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
OK, good. So you're not claiming that the posters here have the paranormal ability to remotely read the pad on your desk or to look back in time, you're the one with the paranormal ability and that ability is to telepathically transmit a number between 1 and 4 to dozens of people you don't know at locations you don't know all over the world.
Next questions:
1. Do you have to consciously transmit the number to each particular individual poster? i.e. does each poster who wants to participate in your test have to "listen" at a particular time as you telepathically transmit to them personally, or can you broadcast to the entire world at a particular time so all those who want to participate can "listen" at the same time?
2. How do those who are participating know when they are receiving your telepathic transmission, as opposed to picking up the thoughts of another telepath (assuming you're not the only one in the world) or just choosing a number from 1 to 4 at random?
Sorry, I misunderstood. A hash file created the way you have done it can certainly form part of an objective test protocol, but we need to spell the rest of it out first.
Well, no, not quite. I would like to present both an "unfiltered" and a "filtered" analysis (this is what I have done last time). I still believe that an open and transparent "credibility analysis" (not just hiding some answers than I don't like, of course), that everyone can read and possibly even constructively criticize, is an essential step in this kind of test, this is what possibly gives you access to real (?) telepathy phenomena. I think it is important to begin to "see" interesting things. Success is never guaranteed ahead of time, but results so far for this latest test on this forum seem encouraging to me (I have not yet finished the analysis, though). Of course, this can be true only thanks to the quality of your participation (should I perhaps add).
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
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I offer a round of applause for this latest post.
Not a single one of your posts has been eliminated in part or whole and you assert that you are being censored. Well played, Monsieur H., well played.
..................
Wait, wait. You were serious when you proposed this test!?
Now I have to turn a previous joking post into a serious post.
Even if we all identify the number, that is not proof that you are transmitting a message that we are receiving. Such results could arise from our ability to remote view your desk instead of your ability to send. Or our ability to prognosticate correctly and see the future post that reveals the number. Or our ability to influence the RNG that you used. Or our ability to hypnotize you into believing that the experiment proved what you wanted it to prove.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
I'm going to be out all day today (niece's wedding) so I'm going to jump ahead and post what I consider to be an objective test protocol for Michel's claim.
1. On a day of Michel's choosing, he telepathically broadcasts the number he has encoded in his previously posted hash file at several pre-agreed times.
2. At one or more of those times those posters who wish to participate "listen" for the telepathic transmission and write down whichever number between 1 and 4 comes to them. Once they have listened at as many of the pre-agreed times as they wish, if they have a strong sense of a particular number they vote for it on a poll added to this thread. If they have no strong sense and/or get different numbers each time they listen they refrain from voting.
3. 12 hours after the final transmission the poll is closed and Michel posts the sentence that is encrypted in his previously posted hash number.
Success criteria: I suggest that at least half of the votes need to be for the number encrypted for the test to be considered evidence for the claim.
Note that the protocol does assume that posters are participating honestly. If Michel does not trust them to do so then he needs to run the test with a different group of people whom he does trust. Certainly any attempt to filter the results based on subjective judgements of the credibility of those participating would render those results meaningless.
1. On a day of Michel's choosing, he telepathically broadcasts the number he has encoded in his previously posted hash file at several pre-agreed times.
2. At one or more of those times those posters who wish to participate "listen" for the telepathic transmission and write down whichever number between 1 and 4 comes to them. Once they have listened at as many of the pre-agreed times as they wish, if they have a strong sense of a particular number they vote for it on a poll added to this thread. If they have no strong sense and/or get different numbers each time they listen they refrain from voting.
3. 12 hours after the final transmission the poll is closed and Michel posts the sentence that is encrypted in his previously posted hash number.
Success criteria: I suggest that at least half of the votes need to be for the number encrypted for the test to be considered evidence for the claim.
Note that the protocol does assume that posters are participating honestly. If Michel does not trust them to do so then he needs to run the test with a different group of people whom he does trust. Certainly any attempt to filter the results based on subjective judgements of the credibility of those participating would render those results meaningless.
"So you're not claiming that the posters here have the paranormal ability to remotely read the pad on your desk or to look back in time, you're the one with the paranormal ability and that ability is to telepathically transmit a number between 1 and 4 to dozens of people you don't know at locations you don't know all over the world."
Yes, I believe I am probably testing (here, and elsewhere) a (physical) telepathic phenomenon. However, I think that we all (or almost all) have telepathic abilities (and also animals, including birds for exemple). I just seem to communicate my thoughts more than most people. Needless to say, the reason for this is not entirely clear, but hypotheses can be made.
"1. Do you have to consciously transmit the number to each particular individual poster? i.e. does each poster who wants to participate in your test have to "listen" at a particular time as you telepathically transmit to them personally, or can you broadcast to the entire world at a particular time so all those who want to participate can "listen" at the same time?"
I would say that I broadcast to the entire world. This is completely involuntary, I can't control it, I would certainly not say that this ("leaking my thoughts") is a "power" of course. For some reason(s), what I think seems to "get known", very generally (this is at least how I understand it). "Extraordinarily generally".
"2. How do those who are participating know when they are receiving your telepathic transmission, as opposed to picking up the thoughts of another telepath (assuming you're not the only one in the world) or just choosing a number from 1 to 4 at random?"
Well I suppose I am very special, as far as telepathy is concerned. I am like the "telepathic BBC" (this is only a joke of course, but the supposed phenomenon seems to be worldwide).
Well, dlorde, you answered yourself correctly in my previous test on this forum: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8543773#post8543773 .
I can't reveal yet if your answer to this ongoing test is correct or not.
I often hear car drivers on the big road near my appartment honking their horns in an apparently strikingly telepathic way, which seems to be correlated with my (modest
) thoughts. I also seem to notice sometimes violent events in the world, which seem to be connected with (still as modest) thoughts. This is a more delicate issue, that I don't like to talk about too much.
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Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
The biggest problem with both of these tests is that you already know the correct answer, which is highly likely to bias your analysis of the posts (and posters!) when you start assigning them "credibility". Only if you do not know which posters guessed correctly, does your analysis have even the slightest merit (and slight it would be). If you look at your previous "analysis", only the correct answers scored positively in your analysis and only incorrect answers scored negatively. As a researcher, that should concern you, rather than assure you.
There is a very good reason why scientific tests use strong blinding.
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