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Teddy Muhammad

Wildy said:
So Sharia considers a stuffed toy an idol? Will that mean the parents of the girl who bought the bear (as I understand it from the articles) will be getting in trouble too?
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They should. However, only if the mother bought it. If she can provide 3 males who will testify that she did not, then of course she's off the hook.

Tokie
 
Ian Osborne said:
No, it's absolutely outrageous that blasphemy is a crime at all, anywhere (including the UK, though I'm certainly not suggesting our blasphemy laws are comparable with Sudan's). As you rightly say, it's an abomination, even in its accurate, unexaggerated form. Let's not allow our emotions to get in the way of our scepticism, though. However bad this is, the teacher is very unlikely to be 'facing 40 lashes', so let's stick to the facts.
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So...since the anti-sodomy laws (aimed at gays) in most of the states in the US were not enforced for 30 years or so before they were finally taken off the books most places, it was just fine that they were there...maybe....just in case some sodomite needed a little arse whuppin' at some point?

Tokie
 
Tokenconservative said:
So...since the anti-sodomy laws (aimed at gays) in most of the states in the US were not enforced for 30 years or so before they were finally taken off the books most places, it was just fine that they were there...maybe....just in case some sodomite needed a little arse whuppin' at some point?

Tokie
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I don't think that an argument based on cultural relativism has been advanced here. If it has, then Tokie is making a valid point. So I really hope it hasn't. I don't want to have to back him up.
 
ravdin said:
I don't think that an argument based on cultural relativism has been advanced here. If it has, then Tokie is making a valid point. So I really hope it hasn't. I don't want to have to back him up.
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So what you are saying is we need to look at this thing in a liberal-vacuum: it's perfectly fine for a truly and cruelly patriarchal society such as you find in most Muslim nations to say, mete out a punishment of 200 lashes to a 19 year old girl for the crime of being gangraped (this is being carried out in Saud, virtually as we speak) because after all, this is an "original" culture (i.e.: not Western) and that orgs. like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Int'l have no business saying a thing about it. Certainly our own wymyn's rights orgs here in the US and in Europe, who have their hands full dealing with the horrors wymyn in the West face daily from the evil patriarchy that represses them through acts such as men offering a wolf whistle to a girl in a short skirt or maybe holding a door open for a lady... But hey, it's all relative, right? 200 lashes in Saud = wolf whistle in Manhatttan. Being buried up to your neck in an ants nest and having honey poured all over your head in Iran = a member of the evil patriarchy holding a door open for you in Chicago...

I'm reminded of a Darwin Award I read recently:

Synopsis: A couple of young college women get a flat tire in front of a frat house that caters to engineering types. They get out and do the usual hemming and hawing wymyn do about flat tires for a few minutes, giving a frat member who'd been enjoying a cold adult beverage on the front stoop time to wander down and ask the "ladies" if he'd like them to change that tire for them...it'd only take him a jiff!

They of course were College Wymyn and absolutely incensed by the very SUGGESTION that they could not handle it themselves. Our hero, not interested in a fight about feminism while he still had the rest of that six pack back in the cooler on the porch shrugged and headed back to his lawn chair.

He then watched as these College Wymyn proceeded to bollix the job up in if nothing else, amusing ways he'd never have thought of himself.

But then it got less amusing to the young stalwart, no feminist himself and rather fond of women, even College Wymyn, generally.

Alas, he was too late to stop them as one of them decided the best way to approach the problem after removing the flat was, for some reason, to stick both her legs, up to mid-thigh under the chasis on either side of the emergency tire she was hoping to attach.

Fortunately, the story goes, her legs remained attached after the car came down on them, but just barely.

Fortunately as well, our stalwart hero was quick on the draw with his cell and in getting the car up and off the College Wymyn before the ambulance arrived, no doubt saving her much further damage.

Tokie
 
Tokenconservative said:
So what you are saying is we need to look at this thing in a liberal-vacuum: it's perfectly fine for a truly and cruelly patriarchal society such as you find in most Muslim nations to say, mete out a punishment of 200 lashes to a 19 year old girl for the crime of being gangraped (this is being carried out in Saud, virtually as we speak) because after all, this is an "original" culture (i.e.: not Western) and that orgs. like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Int'l have no business saying a thing about it.
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Please name a single person on this entire forum who holds that opinion and cite where they said it, or admit that you made it up because you like the shape of it.
 
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Tokenconservative said:
So what you are saying is we need to look at this thing in a liberal-vacuum: it's perfectly fine for a truly and cruelly patriarchal society such as you find in most Muslim nations to say, mete out a punishment of 200 lashes to a 19 year old girl for the crime of being gangraped (this is being carried out in Saud, virtually as we speak) because after all, this is an "original" culture (i.e.: not Western) and that orgs. ...etc...

Tokie
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Fortunately, this post put the world back on its proper axis. Up until this point, I was in the awkward position of agreeing with most of what Tokie said. I'm glad to see he's back to his usual random right-wing rantings to set things right again.
 
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What about the students? THEY chose the name. THEY are Islamic. Wouldn't it make sense in a twisted way to punish them as well? Why shoot the messenger? Of course, I don't think anyone should be punished for this. It's ridiculous.
 
Tanstaafl said:
Fortunately, this post put the world back on its proper axis. Up until this point, I was in the awkward position of agreeing with most of what Tokie said. I'm glad to see he's back to his usual random right-wing rantings to set things right again.
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Ditto.

Tokie, try waiting until someone actually makes a specious argument based on cultural relativism. Then bite.

I know it's fun to poke holes in PC silliness, but you're doing it in a vacuum here. It makes it impossible to take you seriously.
 
sinclairmcevoy said:
What about the students? THEY chose the name. THEY are Islamic. Wouldn't it make sense in a twisted way to punish them as well? Why shoot the messenger? Of course, I don't think anyone should be punished for this. It's ridiculous.
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I was listening to the headmaster of the school in an interview tonight and it appears that the parents and kids were all fine about this but there were issues that she'd broken the school's policies (I suppose along the lines we've seen of teachers at a Catholic school coming a cropper because of some non-Catholic stuff). He'd been trying to keep it within the school but it appears someone at the education department wasn't happy about this.

One teacher colleague was praising her for getting her young kids interested in voting and making it work :( The madness of religion rears its ugly head again.
 
Tokenconservative said:
So...since the anti-sodomy laws (aimed at gays) in most of the states in the US were not enforced for 30 years or so before they were finally taken off the books most places, it was just fine that they were there...maybe....just in case some sodomite needed a little arse whuppin' at some point?
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How on Earth do you infer this from my post, where I said blasphemy laws are outrageous?
 
Tanstaafl said:
Fortunately, this post put the world back on its proper axis. Up until this point, I was in the awkward position of agreeing with most of what Tokie said. I'm glad to see he's back to his usual random right-wing rantings to set things right again.
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I know what you mean. I was actually agreeing with him for a while there.
 
Tokenconservative said:
This isn't the libs fault of course, but you will not see any leftist org decrying this, just as here in the USofA NOW has been utterly silent on the suffering of women in "original" cultures (such as Sudan's) while shrieking ceaselessly about men looking at women and the non-existent "glass ceiling" etc., etc.

Tokie
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Interesting Universe you live in Tokie. Does it have any intersection with the one the rest of us live in? :boggled:
 
Ian Osborne said:
Yes, it's pretty sick, but to be fair, she might not have been formally charged and she certainly hasn't been convicted.

Saying she's 'facing 40 lashes' is a bit like saying, "Bill the British guy is facing three months in prison and a £2500 fine after he deliberately snapped Fred's pencil in half". That is indeed the maximum sentence he could theoretically face for Criminal Damage, but as his crime is at the other end of the scale, so will be the penalty.
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From the story:

Her colleagues said that they feared for her safety after reports that groups of young men had gathered outside the Khartoum police station where she was taken and were shouting death threats.
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I suspect that the situation would be more similar after UK youth shouted death threats against Bill for breaking a pencil in half.
 
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Tokenconservative said:
I'm reminded of a Darwin Award I read recently:

Synopsis: A couple of young college women get a flat tire in front of a frat house that caters to engineering types. They get out and do the usual hemming and hawing wymyn do about flat tires for a few minutes, giving a frat member who'd been enjoying a cold adult beverage on the front stoop time to wander down and ask the "ladies" if he'd like them to change that tire for them...it'd only take him a jiff!

They of course were College Wymyn and absolutely incensed by the very SUGGESTION that they could not handle it themselves. Our hero, not interested in a fight about feminism while he still had the rest of that six pack back in the cooler on the porch shrugged and headed back to his lawn chair.

He then watched as these College Wymyn proceeded to bollix the job up in if nothing else, amusing ways he'd never have thought of himself.

But then it got less amusing to the young stalwart, no feminist himself and rather fond of women, even College Wymyn, generally.

Alas, he was too late to stop them as one of them decided the best way to approach the problem after removing the flat was, for some reason, to stick both her legs, up to mid-thigh under the chasis on either side of the emergency tire she was hoping to attach.

Fortunately, the story goes, her legs remained attached after the car came down on them, but just barely.

Fortunately as well, our stalwart hero was quick on the draw with his cell and in getting the car up and off the College Wymyn before the ambulance arrived, no doubt saving her much further damage.

Tokie
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I was going to ask for a link to that story, but I know how serious your tantrums are when anyone asks for independent confirmation of information you provide. So instead, I'll just cite a Darwin Award showing that conservatives can be just as idiotic as liberals when changing tires. A man exercising his God-given right to use firearms in any manner whatsoever injured himself when he fired his shotgun at a stuck lug nut on an automobile wheel. Boy oh boy, those conservatives with guns are kooky. I don't have any evidence that a liberal tried to talk him out of the action, but I'll just pretend that it happened that way to make it a better story.
 
I suspect the whole bear/prophet's name thing is a complete and utter furphy - irrelevant to the point of what is really happening. I expect it will fade to oblivion, and the teacher will be freed with a "warning".

Because if you read the article carefully and a bit more dispassionately, it becomes VERY obvious that there are entirely other political issues afoot there that are much more of import. The shouting youths are like any mob of louts anywhere - they just like shouting threats and being violent (or they are a government "rent-a-crowd").

Perhaps it's also worth thinking on what is NOT being said: WHY is the Sudanese minister grossly misstating the "offence"? WHY have the British consulate not been heard from? What is the Sudanese government response to this "serious" issue? How come it was reported to the outside media at all? (Sudan practices severe censorship.) And so on.

Oh and Tokie - we just elected a left-wing government in a huge landslide. Go chew on that.
 
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LEGO%20Mohammed.jpg
 
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This is ridiculous, even if you are a Muslim.

Mohammed is, by far, the most common name for males in Muslim cultures.

Mohammed, as the Koran takes great pains to point out, was not divine and is not to be worshipped, so anything involving his name cannot be "blasphemy".
 
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