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Teaching creationism - what does it look like?

I wouldn't introduce a grammar book into an algebra class and say "Of course, there are some people who think the first letter of a sentance should be capitalized, so the formula should read "X+y=z". Also, proper punctuation is a must, and these little symbols are just the lazy person's way of writing, sort of like shorthand, so the right way, to some people, would be "X plus y is equal to z."

No, that'd be stupid. My example is even stupid. There's just no way to justify teaching philosophy in a science class. The idea of doing it just boggles me so much I can't even come up with a reasonable counter-arguement. I mean, c'mon!

Would they examine the works of Shakespere to some how redefine "triangle" based on historic examples of love-triangles? Should a triangle be open at one angle because "some" books have a third member in a love-triangle who doesn't actually desire either of the two others? Then, shall we redefine "triangle" throughout our geometry books?

The whole idea is just freaking ridiculous! Every time I hear someone say "Teach the controversy" I just want to look at them and say "Are you for real? Stupid stipid stupid!! Go away and don't talk to children again or I'll get a restraining order!!"

Sorry. Some subjects are just... Well, you know. Stupid.
 
The demand to "teach both sides" is disingenuous. I've been to "Genesis Expo" - the creation museum in Portsmouth, UK. Though their exhibits are pathetic they have a well-stocked bookshop with DVDs and creationist books (many originating in the US), but I saw nothing by pro-evolution authors such as Richard Dawkins.

The problem with your example is that the C/IDers want "both sides" taught in the classroom. They realize they don't have a chance in museums or anywhere they can't appeal to scientifically illiterate board members. That's why they can only respond with intellectual abortions like Genesis Expo and AiG's faisco in Kentucky. You wouldn't expect to find Creationist lit in the British Museum (or any woo like Graham Hancock's alt-archeology) so it's not surprising that there's no science materials in the C/IDer stores.
 
No, No and No. I do not want anything remotely close to creationidiocracy taught in schools. Stick with the facts, provable scientific studies, no baloney!
 
It should be taught; however, it should be taught in a Philosophy class

I tell this to absolutely every single ID proponent there is and they can't refute it.

They just want their philosophy to be taught as a fact.
 
The weird thing for me is the way YEC/ID/Biblical Literalism has taken over as the only form of religion discussed. Back in secondary school we had our mandated Religious Education class, where the various religions were discussed along with creation myths. I was already an atheist by then, and not greatly interested, but it was a balanced view. The teacher was the school Rector, who clearly didn't take the Bible literally, and nor did any Anglicans I encountered subsequently. The Bible, along with other religious texts were intended as some form of moral guidance through parable. That, to me, was religion. A bit wishy washy and well meaning, but essentially harmless. Biblical literalists were weirdos who lived in isolated commmunities.

Nowadays (ahem - get off my lawn) it seems like the weirdos are the only ones shouting. Has there really been a big shift of belief to YEC literalism from moderate interpretive views of the Bible? Are there studies or viable statistics to indicate whether this is just weirdos making noise, or genuine radicalisation?
 
I like this essay by Austin Cline:
There are a lot of Christians out there who object to the teaching of evolution in public schools. They want the subject removed from school science texts because they believe that the subject undermines True Christianity. Other believers argue that there is no conflict between religion and evolution, so it should be taught. Few if any secularists think that the presence or absence of conflict with religion is relevant — so long as it's science, it belongs in science classes.

Quite a few people fall for the "teach both sides" argument because it has the superficial sound of fairness about it. If there is disagreement, why not tell kids about both positions and let them make their own minds up. This might make sense if the disagreement in question were a matter of legitimate scientific debate, but there are no scientific grounds for disputing evolution — there are only scientific disagreements about some of the details.

It is also questionable how many kids would really be in a position to seriously weigh both sides and come to a sober, objective conclusion. It's far more likely that creationist parents would use the situation to further impress upon their children an anti-science and anti-rationalist perspective which fits with traditional superstition, but which is incompatible with modernity. Even worse, encouraging such ignorance and anti-intellectualism is touted as a "family value" in some circles.

Which leads into this essay:
An essay by Leah Ceccarelli. Leah Ceccarelli is an associate professor in the Communication Department at the University of Washington. She teaches rhetoric and is the author of the award-winning book Shaping Science with Rhetoric.
Manufactroversy (măn’yə-făk’-trə-vûr’sē)
N., pl. -sies.
1. A manufactured controversy that is motivated by profit or extreme ideology to intentionally create public confusion about an issue that is not in dispute.
2. Effort is often accompanied by imagined conspiracy theory and major marketing dollars involving fraud, deception and polemic rhetoric.

With all the sophisticated sophistry besieging mass audiences today, there is a need for the study of rhetoric now more than ever before. This is especially the case when it comes to the contemporary assault on science known as manufactured controversy: when significant disagreement doesn’t exist inside the scientific community, but is successfully invented for a public audience to achieve specific political ends.

Three recent examples of manufactured controversy are global warming skepticism, AIDS dissent in South Africa, and the intelligent design movement’s “teach the controversy” campaign. The first of these has been called an “epistemological filibuster” because it magnifies the uncertainty surrounding a scientific truth claim in order to delay the adoption of a policy that is warranted by that science. Languaging expert Frank Luntz admitted as much in his now infamous talking points memo on the environment, leaked to the public in 2002, where he confessed that the window for claiming controversy about global warming was closing, but he nonetheless urged Republican congressional and executive leaders “to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.” ExxonMobil was doing this when it published its “Unsettled Science” advertisement about climate science on the editorial pages of the New York Times in March 2000. A more recent guest editorial by a reader made the same claim in the pages of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in January 2008. All three seemed to be following the playbook of the tobacco industry when scientists discovered that their products cause cancer; when a threat to their interests arises from the scientific community, they declare “there are always two sides to a case” and then call for more study of the matter before action is taken.

South African President Thabo Mbeki’s support for AIDS dissent eight years ago is a similar case. Like global warming skepticism, this assault on the science of HIV/AIDS research ingeniously turned the scientific community’s values against it by drawing on the importance of rational open debate, a skeptical attitude, and the need for continued research. Mbeki alleged that the mainstream scientific community branded scientists who questioned the causal link between HIV and AIDS as “‘dangerous and discredited’ with whom nobody, including ourselves, should communicate or interact.” Claiming the successful dissident’s authority in post-apartheid South Africa, Mbeki condemned the mainstream scientific community for occupying “the frontline in the campaign of intellectual intimidation and terrorism which argues that the only freedom we have is to agree with what they decree to be established scientific truths.”

A parallel case is being made by the intelligent design movement in conjunction with its “teach the controversy” campaign against evolutionary biology. Ben Stein’s new movie, Expelled, portrays scientists as participating in a vast conspiracy to silence anyone who questions the Darwinian orthodoxy. This movie promises to be the most extreme application yet of the intelligent design movement’s “wedge” strategy to break the supremacy of evolutionary theory in contemporary science. Just as a wedge can be set into a c h i n k in a solid structure and, with the careful application of some concentrated force, will split that structure to pieces, so too do the producers of this movie hope that it can break the scientific community and allow for a change in how science is taught in America. Of course, any claim by biologists that there is no scientific controversy to teach merely feeds the conspiracy theory.

In light of this difficulty, some have suggested that the best response to manufactured controversy is no response at all. They say that countering such nonsense merely gives these modern-day sophists publicity and enables their continued efforts to reopen debate on settled science. I understand this impulse to remain silent in the face of foolishness, but as a professor of rhetoric, I think it’s shortsighted to cede the public stage to the anti-science forces in the naive hope that no one will pay attention to them. Ever since the field of rhetoric was born, there have been those who misuse the power of persuasion to mislead public audiences, and it has been only through vigilant counter-persuasion that such deception has been overcome.

The ancient sophists, or “wise men” (wise guys?) who taught the new art of rhetoric to those who would pay their fee in the 5th century BCE, included Gorgias, who was said to have boasted that he could persuade the multitude to ignore the expert and listen to him instead, and Protagoras, who claimed that there are always two sides to a case and it’s the sophist’s job to make the worse case appear the stronger. It was to oppose this kind of deception that Aristotle codified the art of Rhetoric in his treatise by that title. He recognized that before lay audiences “not even the possession of the exactest knowledge” ensures that a speaker will be persuasive, so Aristotle promoted the study of rhetoric so that experts could confute those who try to mislead public audiences.

As a scholar of rhetoric, I have studied some modern cases of manufactured controversy to discover how to best confute these contemporary sophists, and I have come up with some preliminary hypotheses about what makes their arguments so persuasive to a public audience. First, they skillfully invoke values that are shared by the scientific community and the American public alike, like free speech, skeptical inquiry, and the revolutionary force of new ideas against a repressive orthodoxy. It is difficult to argue against someone who invokes these values without seeming unscientific or un-American. Second, they exploit a tension between the technical and public spheres in postmodern American life; highly specialized scientific experts can’t spare the time to engage in careful public communication, and are then surprised when the public distrusts, fears, or opposes them. Third, today’s sophists exploit a public misconception about what science is, portraying it as a structure of complete consensus built from the steady accumulation of unassailable data; any dissent by any scientist is then seen as evidence that there’s no consensus, and thus truth must not have been discovered yet. A more accurate portrayal of science sees it as a process of debate among a community of experts in which one side outweighs the other in the balance of the argument, and that side is declared the winner; a few skeptics might remain, but they’re vastly outnumbered by the rest, and the democratic process of science moves forward with the collective weight of the majority of expert opinion. Scientists buy into this democratic process when they enter the profession, so that a call for the winning side to share power in the science classroom with the losers, or to continue debating an issue that has already been settled for the vast majority of scientists so that policy makers can delay taking action on their findings, seems particularly undemocratic to most of them.

Aristotle believed that things that are true “have a natural tendency to prevail over their opposites,” but that it takes a good rhetor to ensure that this happens when sophisticated sophistry is on the loose. I concur; only by exposing manufactured controversy for what it is, recognizing its rhetorical power and countering those who are skilled at getting the multitude to ignore the experts while imagining a scientific debate where none exists, can scientists and their allies use my field to achieve what Aristotle envisioned for it—a study that helps the argument that is in reality stronger also appear stronger before an audience of nonexperts.
 
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I almost got into a fist fight in school one year because somebody was complaining that ID wasn't being given equal consideration in a science class and should be taught equally as a science.

So I asked him, so should a Church be forced to to teach about atheist every Sunday then? After all, all sides should be taught equally.

She stormed out and slammed the door shut really hard. Which taught me a valuable lesson about ID among other things. The obvious thing is of course ID was intended to get religion taught as fact in the door of science since religion is always at odds with science and always attempts to supplant science and rational thinking.
 
"A form of riot directed against a particular group, whether ethnic, religious, or other, and characterized by killings and destruction of their homes, businesses, and religious centers." Yeah, that sounds about right.
 
Okay, I messed up, I said him and she when it should be she in both cases. Sorry.
 
I teach both things in my classes.

At the beginning of the school year, I use the Asimov model of games. Science is a game. Like all games it has an object to the game and rules to play the game by. The object of the game is to understand the nature of the universe, and the rules are the scientific method.

Science is not the only game. Law is a different game, with a different object and different rules. Religion is another game. Again, it has a different object and different rules. There is no conflict between any of these, any more than there is a conflict between baseball and football. Conflict arises when something like creationism is introduced. This is "science, played with the rules of religion". It's like trying to score touchdowns while playing basketball.

I point this out to my students at the beginning of the year. If any kid brings up creationism during class, I say "This is science class. We play by the rules of the game of science. Creationism is religion, it has different rules, we do not play that game in here."

If anybody presses the matter, I point out that evidence is a very important part of the game of science, then I state "I will now state all of the scientifically-based evidence that supports creationism over evolution". Then I stand there silently until it gets uncomfortable for the students. The I say "I hope you got the point" and we move on.
 
I think that if creationism is taught in schools it won't be two sided because everyone who's studying this will choose the simpler option furthermore if it is allowed to be taught, all the teachers would teach the scientific method until new ,creationist, teachers get employed to work in the science department.
 
Being an ex-teacher, in the Bible belt, I had my fair share of hearing, "Well, you should teach both sides."

This is the way the conversation usually goes...

"Okay...Both sides," I begin.

"There is a belief, some people have looked at a few different animals and connected the dots. Some believe that animals have changed slowly over thousands of year, or millions of year, so they have a better chance at surviving. Penguins. Their wings have changed slowly over time from a traditional bird wing to more of a flipper, since that helps them in their envrionment. Do we know for sure this is happening? No. Do we have good idea that this is happening? Yes."
"So far so good?" I ask.
"Yes."
"There is a belief, that a God or Gods* or some type of creator, some type of higher being, made everything in a few days. The penguin flipper? It was designed that way by this God or Gods, or some type of creator since penguins would do more swimming than flying. Our evidence of this? A few thousand year old book."
"Good?" I ask.
"Sure."
"So, what is it that I have to teach again to expose students to both sides?"

They usually fall silent at this point.

Usually..."Well, evolution can't explain "this or that", or what about irreducible complexity?!"
"Just because a theory, which is a work in progress, just because a theory that is being changed over time can't explain a few somethings, doesn't mean
the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced with something else. Just because air conditioner usage can't explain my $450 electric bill, doesn't mean I should look to divine intervention to explain it."

They usually fall silent, again, at this point.

*I love saying God or Gods, since it is usually a Bible Thumper on the other side of this converation. Saying "Gods" annoys them. I have to point out that no religion has yet to prove their theory as how everything came to be as the correct one. After all, Odin could be responsible for everything.
Well, I'm not opposed to teaching about theology. Some believe the divine is the next emergent phase of human development (right after the Arts & Sciences).
 
Let's put a Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Jew, conservative Christian, Pantheist, European Pagan, and any other people in a debate with scientific experimentation and see which creation story is right. I think religion and science appear completely separate after seeing religions argue.

Only when people realize the importance of exegesis can religion make any sense at all.
 
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Well, I'm not opposed to teaching about theology. Some believe the divine is the next emergent phase of human development (right after the Arts & Sciences).

You can teach all the theology you want. In a class on theology. Philosophy. Comparative Religions.

But NOT science.

Apples. Oranges.
 
The rub is that this makes it sound like that if that was done, maybe something good would come out. So why refuse to do it? Why not actually go and do that -- why not have real serious scientists go out there and try and transform it into a working theory?

Of course, the answer is that any attempt to try and do so results in there not being any Evidence to hold it up.

Nah, the point being that trying to do so makes it look like a legitimate hypothesis. That's all they need to keep screaming that it belongs there.
 

Ken Miller explains how the human chromosome count went from 48 to 46 in this video, but that is only one way in which speciation occurs. A comparison of the champ and human chromosomes shows not only the fused chromosome 2, but also nine other locations where inversions on DNA within chromosomes has occurred. From wiki:

Figures published in Nature on September 1, 2005, in an article produced by the Chimpanzee Sequencing and Analysis Consortium, show that 24% of the chimpanzee genome does not align with the human genome. There are 3% further alignment gaps, 1.23% SNP differences, and 2.7% copy number variations totaling at least 30% differences between chimpanzee and homo sapien genomes.

Note that this does not conflict with the oft-stated 96% congruence between chimps and humans, which refers to functionality, rather than structural positioning. However, when gene recombination occurs in the mating of DNA from sperm and egg, it greatly increases the possibility of broken genes in the zygote, resulting in missing or non-functional proteins and/or gene control, resulting in death of most all such offspring.
 

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